Grape vine assistance
Hi
As a newcomer to the delights of grapevines, could someone help me out please? I've read here and elsewhere that vines usually flower before providing grapes. If so, are these the flowers, because they look like 'baby' grapes to me.... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...apes-small.jpg Thanks in advance - I'll be back later for a quick couse on vine pruning! Cheers TIm |
Grape vine assistance
On Mon, 10 May 2004 08:34:40 +0100, Tim Nicholson
wrote: Hi As a newcomer to the delights of grapevines, could someone help me out please? I've read here and elsewhere that vines usually flower before providing grapes. If so, are these the flowers, because they look like 'baby' grapes to me.... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...apes-small.jpg Thanks in advance - I'll be back later for a quick couse on vine pruning! "Access Denied (Usage Limit) The owner of this file has exceeded their daily usage limit. " On a Leiden Vietnamese restaurants menu "Squeezed Grapes" [wine] "Yeast" [beer] Strong Booze [spirits] |
Grape vine assistance
On Mon, 10 May 2004 09:56:14 +0200, martin wrote:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...apes-small.jpg "Access Denied (Usage Limit) The owner of this file has exceeded their daily usage limit. " Sorry - it was my first attempt at uploading an image to a freebie site. I'll look around and see whether I can put it somewhere else, then post another link. Tim |
Grape vine assistance
Tim Nicholson wrote:
Hi As a newcomer to the delights of grapevines, could someone help me out please? I've read here and elsewhere that vines usually flower before providing grapes. If so, are these the flowers, because they look like 'baby' grapes to me.... The flowers do look like bunches of baby grapes. When they disappear, the grapes will grow at a point just behind where the flowers are. -- Howard Neil |
Grape vine assistance
On Mon, 10 May 2004, Tim Nicholson wrote:
As a newcomer to the delights of grapevines, could someone help me out please? I've read here and elsewhere that vines usually flower before providing grapes. If so, are these the flowers, because they look like 'baby' grapes to me.... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...apes-small.jpg Not able to see your picture, but I would say that it's a little early for grapes to be forming. Therefore what you can see are probably the flower buds. Flowering usually takes place in June/July but then everything is early this year. My vines are only just putting out the tightly packed flower trusses. I think I've got some photos of vine flowers somewhere so if you email me your email address I'll send them to you. Thanks in advance - I'll be back later for a quick couse on vine pruning! Don't try to do any pruning at the moment! If you cut into ripe wood it'll bleed profusely. And it's probably a bit too early to be pruning back the new growth. However what you can do profitably now is to remove any new growth that either doesn't have any flower truss or isn't needed for further training of the vine. -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet: | writing from | | Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, | | BBS: telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Reading, UK | +-------------------------------------------------------+ |
Grape vine assistance
On Mon, 10 May 2004 08:34:40 +0100, Tim Nicholson
wrote: Hi As a newcomer to the delights of grapevines, could someone help me out please? I've read here and elsewhere that vines usually flower before providing grapes. If so, are these the flowers, because they look like 'baby' grapes to me.... [old link may be broken] try this one instead http://www.symmetric.demon.co.uk I've never tried this before, so apologies if it doesn't work. I also appreciate that it's probably not good design practice to give people access to a homepage, but right now it was quick, and it appears to work for me! Cheers Tim |
Grape vine assistance
Tim Nicholson wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2004 08:34:40 +0100, Tim Nicholson wrote: Hi As a newcomer to the delights of grapevines, could someone help me out please? I've read here and elsewhere that vines usually flower before providing grapes. If so, are these the flowers, because they look like 'baby' grapes to me.... [old link may be broken] try this one instead http://www.symmetric.demon.co.uk I've never tried this before, so apologies if it doesn't work. I also appreciate that it's probably not good design practice to give people access to a homepage, but right now it was quick, and it appears to work for me! They look like the flowers to me. -- Howard Neil |
Grape vine assistance
In article , Tim Nicholson
writes Hi As a newcomer to the delights of grapevines, could someone help me out please? I've read here and elsewhere that vines usually flower before providing grapes. make that an 'always' ;-) Pollen from male part of flower fertilises female part of flower which then produces seed (in this case wrapped up in a grape). Some plants will produce a fruit even if not fertilised, but you do need the female flower first. Flowers are in small bunches, with each flower potentially producing a grape (which is why the grapes are in bunches). It sounds like your vine is on the way :-) -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Grape vine assistance
The photo has appeared. They are indeed flower buds. The berries[grapes]
will form later and flowering this early should ripen well. Good Luck Brian. "Tim Nicholson" wrote in message ... On Mon, 10 May 2004 08:34:40 +0100, Tim Nicholson wrote: Hi As a newcomer to the delights of grapevines, could someone help me out please? I've read here and elsewhere that vines usually flower before providing grapes. If so, are these the flowers, because they look like 'baby' grapes to me.... [old link may be broken] try this one instead http://www.symmetric.demon.co.uk I've never tried this before, so apologies if it doesn't work. I also appreciate that it's probably not good design practice to give people access to a homepage, but right now it was quick, and it appears to work for me! Cheers Tim |
Grape vine assistance
"........... I've never tried this before, so apologies if it doesn't work.
I also appreciate that it's probably not good design practice to give people access to a homepage, but right now it was quick, and it appears to work for me! ........." Well there's not a lot of point having a web site if you don't allow access to your home page. And yes they are the young flower buds, Now all you have to do is to make sure you don't let the roots dry out if we get a dry summer, and make sure you keep god ventilation, these two things will go a long way to prevent the start of Mildew -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Grape vine assistance
The message
from Tim Nicholson contains these words: try this one instead http://www.symmetric.demon.co.uk Flower buds. The flowers will be small and have very small whitish petals. They don't last long, so you need to allow access to pollinators. In any case, vines need a fairly dry atmosphere or they'll soon get botrytis (nasty grey mould), so while there is daylight and warmth there should be good ventilation. I've never tried this before, so apologies if it doesn't work. I also appreciate that it's probably not good design practice to give people access to a homepage, but right now it was quick, and it appears to work for me! A? That's what a homepage is for! Don't prune until after all the fruit has set and then shorten the laterals with bunches of grapes, leaving at least two leaves beyond the bunch. Make sure there is no serious bleeding on *THE FIRST CUT*, and proceed carefully after that. Cut out any laterals that have no fruit - if you don't want to train them for future years. At the end of the year, when all the leaves have fallen and any sap in the laterals has returned to the stem, cut off all laterals, leaving the best-looking bud near the main stem. _ _ o// ________o//_______//________ _____________ ___________ ____ o\\ O\\ ¯ ¯ The buds will grow into next year's laterals. Water profusely. (Your vine should be planted outside the greenhouse, BTW, and be guided in, using something soft or which will push aside as the stem grows in diameter.) Having watered profusely, water it again. *NEVER* give a vine nitrogen fertiliser or it will produce lots of leaf and no fruit. Bonemeal and hoof-and-horn are good slow-release fertilisers. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Grape vine assistance
That's all quite handy stuff. My grape has just flowered for the first
time. I planted it late last summer so only saw lots of leaves and by heck it grew fast (1 inch a week). It's growing fast again and now there are lots of little flowers on it, and I'm crossing my fingers for what might happen next. Kev, |
Grape vine assistance
On Wed, 12 May 2004 18:53:18 +0100, Kevin Groves
wrote: and by heck it grew fast (1 inch a week) Wait until it really gets its roots down - you will be able to see the growth from one day to the next easily, you won't have to wait a week! Regards, VivienB |
Grape vine assistance
In article ,
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: Water profusely. (Your vine should be planted outside the greenhouse, BTW, and be guided in, using something soft or which will push aside as the stem grows in diameter.) Having watered profusely, water it again. Interesting that the opposite often applies when growing grapes for wine-making, in Europe at least. IIRC, irrigation is not allowed if the vines are to be used for a "quality" wine (eg. Appellation Controlle or VDQS as opposed to Vin de Pays or Vin de Table, in France) with a few rare exceptions (experimental vineyards being one). I wonder if it's something to do with limited yields? James |
Grape vine assistance
On Tue, 11 May 2004 20:53:03 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote: Water profusely. (Your vine should be planted outside the greenhouse, BTW, and be guided in, using something soft or which will push aside as the stem grows in diameter.) Having watered profusely, water it again. That's interesting - I'd heard this somewhere before, but no-one was able to tell me 'why' I should plant the vine outside. As we were building a new greenhouse, I figured the ground inside (once you got below the 3 inches of gravel and the anti-weed, water-permeable membrane) was likely to be the same as that outside, and as anything above ground was going to be inside the greenhouse anyway, it probably didn't make much difference. So my vine is planted IN the greenhouse (simply to make it easier to apply water to the root system near the stem/trunk). Is this a major error? I'll be installing an auto watering system in the next couple of weeks, can anyone tell me how much water a decent size vine needs. I intend set the system to water twice as day as I do now, but I'm not sure about the amount. At the moment I give the vine a good sized watering can - about 1.5 gals? - at each watering. Is that enough? The plant seems healthy, and no signs of any problems so far. Thanks in advance Tim |
Grape vine assistance
On Wed, 12 May 2004, James Fidell wrote:
Water profusely. (Your vine should be planted outside the greenhouse, BTW, and be guided in, using something soft or which will push aside as the stem grows in diameter.) Having watered profusely, water it again. Interesting that the opposite often applies when growing grapes for wine-making, in Europe at least. IIRC, irrigation is not allowed if the vines are to be used for a "quality" wine (eg. Appellation Controlle or VDQS as opposed to Vin de Pays or Vin de Table, in France) with a few rare exceptions (experimental vineyards being one). I wonder if it's something to do with limited yields? No, it's to do with the concentration of the juice. -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet: | writing from | | Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, | | BBS: telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Reading, UK | +-------------------------------------------------------+ |
Grape vine assistance
On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:12:19 +0100, David Rance said:
] On Wed, 12 May 2004, James Fidell wrote: ][] ] Interesting that the opposite often applies when growing grapes for ] wine-making, in Europe at least. IIRC, irrigation is not allowed if the ] vines are to be used for a "quality" wine (eg. Appellation Controlle or ] VDQS as opposed to Vin de Pays or Vin de Table, in France) with a few ] rare exceptions (experimental vineyards being one). ] ] I wonder if it's something to do with limited yields? ] ] No, it's to do with the concentration of the juice. ] That's right of course: stressed vines produce smaller grapes with more sugar content. Same as with old vines, which is why the INAO (governs french AOCs) doesn't allow very young wines in most appellations. However in many climates, e.g. California or Oz, watering is required to produce fruit. It's just too hot, otherwise. -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to by removing the well known companies |
Grape vine assistance
On Thu, 13 May 2004, Emery Davis wrote:
] No, it's to do with the concentration of the juice. ] That's right of course: stressed vines produce smaller grapes with more sugar content. Same as with old vines, which is why the INAO (governs french AOCs) doesn't allow very young wines in most appellations. However in many climates, e.g. California or Oz, watering is required to produce fruit. It's just too hot, otherwise. Normally watering is not required for an established vine because it sends its roots as deep and wide as it needs in order to find moisture. But I have no experience of vines in California or Oz. :-) -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet: | writing from | | Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, | | BBS: telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Reading, UK | +-------------------------------------------------------+ |
Grape vine assistance
VivienB wrote:
Wait until it really gets its roots down - you will be able to see the growth from one day to the next easily, you won't have to wait a week! Regards, VivienB Nice. I'm growing Hamburgh I think. A red dessert grape. Kev, |
Grape vine assistance
On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:02:48 +0100, David Rance said:
] On Thu, 13 May 2004, Emery Davis wrote: ] ] ] No, it's to do with the concentration of the juice. ] ] ] ] That's right of course: stressed vines produce smaller grapes with more ] sugar content. Same as with old vines, which is why the INAO (governs ] french AOCs) doesn't allow very young wines in most appellations. ] ] However in many climates, e.g. California or Oz, watering is required to ] produce fruit. It's just too hot, otherwise. ] ] Normally watering is not required for an established vine because it ] sends its roots as deep and wide as it needs in order to find moisture. ] But I have no experience of vines in California or Oz. :-) ] Yes, that's true enough. My post was a bit sloppy. Can't remember the exact figure off the top, but I think the roots can go down 6 m with no problem. (Or is it 20? anyway, a bit of a dig!) I should have written: sufficient fruit to be commercially viable. In CA and Oz, it is common to use fairly young vines (in the former they are routinely replaced at 20 years) and irrigate for maximum yield; then the juice is concentrated via reverse osmosis, and brewed with oak tea-bags. This all yields a predictable enough result (aside from the headache) at the local Tesco. Still, some irrigation is required in the hot climates to produce enough fruit to bother at all. Just read that growers in Champagne are buying land in the South Downs for vineyards. Apparently it is similar to Champagne (the region) and the cost is about 1%. -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to by removing the well known companies |
Grape vine assistance
Emery Davis wrote:
Just read that growers in Champagne are buying land in the South Downs for vineyards. Apparently it is similar to Champagne (the region) and the cost is about 1%. Oh yes. It's getting quite good down here for grapes. Kev, |
Grape vine assistance
The message
from James Fidell contains these words: In article , Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: Water profusely. (Your vine should be planted outside the greenhouse, BTW, and be guided in, using something soft or which will push aside as the stem grows in diameter.) Having watered profusely, water it again. Interesting that the opposite often applies when growing grapes for wine-making, in Europe at least. IIRC, irrigation is not allowed if the vines are to be used for a "quality" wine (eg. Appellation Controlle or VDQS as opposed to Vin de Pays or Vin de Table, in France) with a few rare exceptions (experimental vineyards being one). I wonder if it's something to do with limited yields? More likely sugar concentration. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Grape vine assistance
The message
from Tim Nicholson contains these words: On Tue, 11 May 2004 20:53:03 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: Water profusely. (Your vine should be planted outside the greenhouse, BTW, and be guided in, using something soft or which will push aside as the stem grows in diameter.) Having watered profusely, water it again. That's interesting - I'd heard this somewhere before, but no-one was able to tell me 'why' I should plant the vine outside. As we were building a new greenhouse, I figured the ground inside (once you got below the 3 inches of gravel and the anti-weed, water-permeable membrane) was likely to be the same as that outside, and as anything above ground was going to be inside the greenhouse anyway, it probably didn't make much difference. So my vine is planted IN the greenhouse (simply to make it easier to apply water to the root system near the stem/trunk). Is this a major error? In the opinion of most of the pundits, yes. Water tends to drain straight downwards, with only a little sideways wandering, and the soil under a greenhouse is quite soon very dry. Copious watering inside the greenhouse leads to high humidity and an increased risk of moulds. If you can't move the vine, you can persuade the roots to move themselves by watering outside the greenhouse. I'll be installing an auto watering system in the next couple of weeks, can anyone tell me how much water a decent size vine needs. I intend set the system to water twice as day as I do now, but I'm not sure about the amount. At the moment I give the vine a good sized watering can - about 1.5 gals? - at each watering. Is that enough? The plant seems healthy, and no signs of any problems so far. I would say that wasn't enough - depending on the size of the vine. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Grape vine assistance
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
I'll be installing an auto watering system in the next couple of weeks, can anyone tell me how much water a decent size vine needs. I intend set the system to water twice as day as I do now, but I'm not sure about the amount. At the moment I give the vine a good sized watering can - about 1.5 gals? - at each watering. Is that enough? The plant seems healthy, and no signs of any problems so far. I would say that wasn't enough - depending on the size of the vine. Not true. As I said before, an established vine does not need watering. A vine needs watering only in the first year or two of its life because the roots will not be established. Once established a vine can look after itself because the roots go far and wide. I have several hundred vines. I never water the established vines. The crop yield is more dependent on whether we have late frosts or not! -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet: | writing from | | Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, | | BBS: telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Reading, UK | +-------------------------------------------------------+ |
Grape vine assistance
The message
from David Rance contains these words: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: I'll be installing an auto watering system in the next couple of weeks, can anyone tell me how much water a decent size vine needs. I intend set the system to water twice as day as I do now, but I'm not sure about the amount. At the moment I give the vine a good sized watering can - about 1.5 gals? - at each watering. Is that enough? The plant seems healthy, and no signs of any problems so far. I would say that wasn't enough - depending on the size of the vine. Not true. As I said before, an established vine does not need watering. A vine needs watering only in the first year or two of its life because the roots will not be established. Once established a vine can look after itself because the roots go far and wide. I quote from an earlier post from the questioner: # That's all quite handy stuff. My grape has just flowered for the first # time. I planted it late last summer so only saw lots of leaves and by # heck it grew fast (1 inch a week). It's growing fast again and now there # are lots of little flowers on it, and I'm crossing my fingers for what # might happen next. I have several hundred vines. I never water the established vines. The crop yield is more dependent on whether we have late frosts or not! Hardly matters if you have a million vines. four gallons of water a day are not enough for a young vine. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Grape vine assistance
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
Not true. As I said before, an established vine does not need watering. A vine needs watering only in the first year or two of its life because the roots will not be established. Once established a vine can look after itself because the roots go far and wide. and more importantly deep! pk |
Grape vine assistance
Hello Nick et al I wouldn't worry too much about having planted inside the greenhouse. I have two vines (one swee****er, one muscat) both inside. The roots are, however, on the shady side of the greenhouse in the lee of a garage with all the damp, cool soil under that to call its own. They send roots down a long way. I watered generously the first year or two but after that only when the soil looked particularly dry. Planted with roots outside would perhaps save a bit of work but I wouldn't bother relocating. Perhaps put a few roof slates round the root area. I also have a couple of outdoor swee****er vines against a south-facing wall and these get no more water than the rest of the fruit and veg and produce a few kilos each. What vines don't like in my experience is too much damp on the leaves so I prefer watering only at ground level. Best regards from Ray |
Grape vine assistance
On Mon, 17 May 2004, PK wrote:
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: No he didn't! I did! ;-) Not true. As I said before, an established vine does not need watering. A vine needs watering only in the first year or two of its life because the roots will not be established. Once established a vine can look after itself because the roots go far and wide. and more importantly deep! That's what I meant! :-) -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet: | writing from | | Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, | | BBS: telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Reading, UK | +-------------------------------------------------------+ |
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