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OT Customers from hell
I'm sure everyone here who has ever been involved in a service industry has
their own horror stories to tell but my personal nastiest happened a couple of days ago. Ray and I were walking down one of the paths when our dogs raced off, round a corner and started a lot of barking and general hurling of abuse. Sure enough, someone had brought a dog in. We decided to ignore it 'just this once' until we realised that the dog was off the lead and by now causing something of a ruckus with ours. Both of us politely pointed out to this great slob of a yob and his vacuously grinning wife and child that there was a notice up saying "no dogs". They answered that they had come in via the churchyard where there is no notice because it's rarely used. Fair enough. So again, very nicely, I said to the man "I'm sorry but we don't allow dogs in the nursery, please would you put yours back in your car". He muttered something at me which I didn't hear and when I asked him to repeat it, he turned and walked off back towards the church. I'd noticed their dog was absolutely soaking wet but hadn't thought much of it until we walked up past the fishpond and noticed huge puddles of water lying all around it, over the flagstones. I pointed this out to Ray and for the first time in 5 years I saw my husband thoroughly lose his temper - he is the most equable of men. He stormed after slob-yob and castigated him for so mistreating our home and thicko replied that the dog had really enjoyed its swim, had probably eaten a couple of the goldfish, asked Ray how long he's had the nursery because 'it's really gone downhill since the last bloke left' (R has been here nearly 23 years and it wasn't a garden plant nursery!) He told Ray that I'd sworn at him - and honest, gentle reader I didn't - though now I wish I'd let fly with all the words I know and a few I'd made up and then, for some bizarre reason, aggressively asked Ray "wherejoo tek yer O levels then". Ray's answer was something to the effect that this would have been in the Parachute Regiment, where he also learned a lot about the effects of granite headstones on peoples' faces. Slob-yob and family did a hasty about turn and beat it to their car. I've only just stopped seething about this and Ray still has the odd dark mutter - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For a moment we were looking for the Candid Camera, so astonished were we at this outrageous behaviour. Luckily, it's the only time anything *quite* as nasty as this has happened and I hope it's the last! -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) |
OT Customers from hell
I've only just stopped seething about this and Ray still has the odd dark mutter - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For a moment we were looking for the Candid Camera, so astonished were we at this outrageous behaviour. Luckily, it's the only time anything *quite* as nasty as this has happened and I hope it's the last! I think you can blame the education system. A significant proportion of at least one generation from the late '70s and '80s grew up seemingly in a complete vacuum re. social mores, and with little or no grounding about our particular society, and I mean particluarly England and/or Great Britain. I believe a social experiment has been carried out in order to produce a population which has no "baggage" from the past. We seem to have produced some people who are empty vessels in regard to "fitting in" and perhaps even in regard to basic knowledge. Now, I am trying to understand this for what it is, because in the other direction, education can and has been used for propaganda purposes, but there has to be some sort of happy medium, in which people learn to have certain "standards" but can question them in a rational way, rather then simply not understand, or be plain ignorant. This is very complicated and you could get into all sorts of areas re. "the establishment" and its traditional disdain, and therefore lack of thought regarding educating the masses or not. It used not to matter whether we were educated or not, because the same people held sway over us. That has changed, thankfully, but perhaps it went too far the other way, and some sort of order needs to be regained now. Perhaps a start has been made with "citizenship" classes. Rather too many "" in this piece I am afraid but I haven't really planned this response. It's been a sort of stream of conscience. Sorry about that. John In limine sapientiae |
OT Customers from hell
"Sacha" wrote in message . uk... I'm sure everyone here who has ever been involved in a service industry has their own horror stories to tell but my personal nastiest happened a couple of days ago. snipped Dreadful! Since you run a nursery there may be a little ruse you know about.... but then maybe not. Customer drives in and when no ones looking, put a plant/slab/whatever into car boot, but leaves boot open and seeks attention. When attention is gained, customer points into boot and has a right good moan about what ever idiot is responsible for deliveries. "I asked for a bag of cobbles to be delivered, and what do I get?!!! A bag of bark mulch!!!" (or something along those lines) levels of irritation been vented thwart the inclination of request for evidence delivery, eg receipt, delivery docket. Attendant profusely apologies for the error and lifts said bag of mulch out of the boot. Goes off, gets bag of cobbles, the cleanest one, then gently and oh so carefully places it into boot with further apologies and requests for anything else customer might like done for him (usually male). Customer feigns understanding and more down-to-earth mannerisms before happily driving off. Just thought you might like to watch out for it. Patrick |
OT Customers from hell
In message , Sacha
writes snip horror story I've only just stopped seething about this and Ray still has the odd dark mutter - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! Welcome to my world Sacha. I sympathise. We seem to have a lot of such 'adults' here in this part of south London and it distresses me to think that they will be raising their children to behave with the same level of disregard for others' property and feelings. -- dave @ stejonda "To materialist eyes, India is a developing country; to spiritual eyes, the United States is a developing country." Ram Dass (an optimist) |
OT Customers from hell
"dave @ stejonda" wrote in message ... In message , Sacha writes snip horror story I've only just stopped seething about this and Ray still has the odd dark mutter - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! Welcome to my world Sacha. I sympathise. We seem to have a lot of such 'adults' here in this part of south London and it distresses me to think that they will be raising their children to behave with the same level of disregard for others' property and feelings. -- dave @ stejonda Sorry to hear about your bad experience Sacha, unfortunately West London has its share of idiots too. I've tried confronting the 'adult' who allows his dog to foul the public footpath to no avail. what can you do? Still... Ray's answer to where he did his A levels was cool! |
OT Customers from hell
On Tue, 11 May 2004 23:04:21 +0100, "homer"
wrote: I've tried confronting the 'adult' who allows his dog to foul the public footpath to no avail. what can you do? pick it up, follow him home and push it through his letter box? |
OT Customers from hell
"Derek Turner" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 May 2004 23:04:21 +0100, "homer" wrote: I've tried confronting the 'adult' who allows his dog to foul the public footpath to no avail. what can you do? pick it up, follow him home and push it through his letter box? Thus starting a feud you may live to regret. If there are 'dog fouling' by-laws in the area, you might try following the proper channels. |
OT Customers from hell
On Wed, 12 May 2004 08:46:35 +0100, Derek Turner
wrote: On Tue, 11 May 2004 23:04:21 +0100, "homer" wrote: I've tried confronting the 'adult' who allows his dog to foul the public footpath to no avail. what can you do? pick it up, follow him home and push it through his letter box? put in brown paper bag on his door step, set alight, ring doorbell... |
OT Customers from hell
Subject: OT Customers from hell
From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. -- Rhiannon http://www.livejournal.com/users/rhiannon_s/ "The trick is to commit crimes so confusing that police feel too stupid to even write a crime report about them." Aubrey on remaining at liberty www.somethingpositive.net |
OT Customers from hell
".......I've tried confronting the 'adult' who allows his dog to foul the
public footpath to no avail.what can you do? pick it up, follow him home and push it through his letter box?..." No,No, No, No, No. Yes you pick it up into a poly bag then follow to get his address, then put the sealed bag into a jiffy bag (That doesn't have your name or address on it) and post it to him forgetting to put on stamps, that way he has to pay around £1.00 to get the dog mess back. I have done this to people cleaning out their cars in my gateway and who are stupid enough to dump things with their name and address on them (repeat prescription forms, pay slip, expenses claim form and envelope) the latter was from around 40 miles away so I wonder how it was explained to her husband. With it on plane paper a note just saying " Thought you might like these things of yours back as I have no use for them". -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
OT Customers from hell
Rhiannon S12/5/04 1:01
Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. -- I don't think so. Mrs Thatcher was very punctilious from what I recall. She was very squashing to a radio interviewer who suggested that she didn't say "good morning" to each of her interlocutors so as to 'save time'. Her view appeared to be that time spent on small courtesies wasn't wasted! Had she been here on Sunday this bloke would have been handbagged into the pond himself! -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) |
OT Customers from hell
On Wed, 12 May 2004 15:49:40 +0100, "David Hill"
wrote: ".......I've tried confronting the 'adult' who allows his dog to foul the public footpath to no avail.what can you do? pick it up, follow him home and push it through his letter box?..." No,No, No, No, No. Yes you pick it up into a poly bag then follow to get his address, then put the sealed bag into a jiffy bag (That doesn't have your name or address on it) and post it to him forgetting to put on stamps, that way he has to pay around £1.00 to get the dog mess back. Nowadays if they so much as think that that there is insufficient postage, the item is sent on a world tour via an alternative route. A PC posted in UK 1 April 2004 arrived in NL 150 miles away on 3-May 2004. In fact the amount of postage was correct, there was no surcharge. We know the postage was correct, because the post card was posted in a post office and the post person chose and stuck on the stamp. I have done this to people cleaning out their cars in my gateway and who are stupid enough to dump things with their name and address on them (repeat prescription forms, pay slip, expenses claim form and envelope) the latter was from around 40 miles away so I wonder how it was explained to her husband. With it on plane paper a note just saying " Thought you might like these things of yours back as I have no use for them". |
OT Customers from hell
In article , David Hill david@abacus
nurseries.freeserve.co.uk writes ".......I've tried confronting the 'adult' who allows his dog to foul the public footpath to no avail.what can you do? pick it up, follow him home and push it through his letter box?..." No,No, No, No, No. Yes you pick it up into a poly bag then follow to get his address, then put the sealed bag into a jiffy bag (That doesn't have your name or address on it) and post it to him forgetting to put on stamps, that way he has to pay around £1.00 to get the dog mess back. He doesn't *have* to pay. And according to the little slip they send you, if you haven't turned up at the sorting office clutching your £1.04 (in exact money) and suitable identification within three weeks, they return the package to sender :-) -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
OT Customers from hell
On Wed, 12 May 2004 17:34:18 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote: In article , David Hill david@abacus nurseries.freeserve.co.uk writes ".......I've tried confronting the 'adult' who allows his dog to foul the public footpath to no avail.what can you do? pick it up, follow him home and push it through his letter box?..." No,No, No, No, No. Yes you pick it up into a poly bag then follow to get his address, then put the sealed bag into a jiffy bag (That doesn't have your name or address on it) and post it to him forgetting to put on stamps, that way he has to pay around £1.00 to get the dog mess back. He doesn't *have* to pay. And according to the little slip they send you, if you haven't turned up at the sorting office clutching your £1.04 (in exact money) and suitable identification within three weeks, they return the package to sender :-) "That doesn't have your name or address on it" :-) |
OT Customers from hell
Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:204293
Yes you pick it up into a poly bag then follow to get his address, then put the sealed bag into a jiffy bag (That doesn't have your name or address on it) and post it to him forgetting to put on stamps, that way he has to pay around £1.00 to get the dog mess back. I have done this to people cleaning out their cars in my gateway and who are stupid enough to dump things with their name and address on them (repeat prescription forms, pay slip, expenses claim form and envelope) the latter was from around 40 miles away so I wonder how it was explained to her husband. With it on plane paper a note just saying " Thought you might like these things of yours back as I have no use for them". I had just walked into a pedestrian precinct and saw a woman sitting on the seat drop something. I picked it up and said 'I think you have dropped something' and handed it to her. "Oh it's rubbish" (I could see that, it was the finished chocolate wrapper) 'Wouldn't it be better in the rubbish bin at the end of the seat you are sitting on?'. Hopefully, fully embarrassed she said yes, took it off me and put it in the rubbish bin. I regret to say she was of the Senior Citizen age, not a kid. Another one I have no hesitation in using is, I hold a door open for someone and they walk straight through. "Sorry what did you say?" I ask, 'I didn't say anything', "Oh I thought you said Thank You" I am afraid that this is once again, usually the Senior Citizen. I find the politest people are the children of about 7 - 9ish years, hold the doors and say thank you and pardon, then it goes to pot :-(( Mike |
OT Customers from hell
In article , Rhiannon S
writes Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. -- S'funny I can't remember her teaching me that, if she did I wasn't a very good learner. -- David |
OT Customers from hell
"John Edgar" wrote in message ... I think you can blame the education system. That might depend on the definition of "education system" When I was a kid, my parents were busy planning to build their dream house. Being exposed to all sorts of ideas on that front it was perhaps understandable that I wanted to become an architect. At the time, (in Irish rep) it was the results of our leaving cert. (O levels in GB .... I think) that would determine what one might be able to apply for in terms of univercity placement and architects candidates needed something like 28 points. One more than to study to be a surgeon. That I do remember! If you did honours maths for your leaving cert, and got an A+ then you might get , say, 7 points. An A+ in standard math might get only 3 points. Less than 5 subjects passed and you were considered a failure. Art, which one would think usuful for a budding architect would barely get you any mark and so you can see that subjects chosen were to achieve points and no other purpose, however useful they may be. This highlights an irrationality. But it is one that schools have to work with. It is therefore accedemia that matters, purpose is second best. Oh and there are no points at all for manners or other such real things. And it is accademic success that opens the door to all sorts of people who .... if say, their future depended on a gardening exam... they would now find it hard to get a job cleaning the streets. What that means is that accedemia is a fashion accessory,. A must have, which if one has the aptitude to follow up on,,,, but does not,,, then such a person would want his/her head examined. Eg. I was once at the home of a young lady who had just recieved her degree in Hotel and Catering management. She popped into the kitchen to make a brew. A few minutes later I could hear the kettle. The water was boiling but no response. And then came the question I would not have expected. It was not...; "Mom, where did you put the tray?" Or; "Where are all the cups gone?" No! It was "Mom, how do I know when the water is boiled?" Fair enough , as someone pointed out, she was in management, not a chef. She went on to get a job which she could not have got without the degree. Yet the first thing her employer had to do was train her for the work, which, quite frankly, a school boy could do without much "special training". If she had done a catering course, she would have being expected to turn up and be productive from day one...... and..... recieve about 6 times less pay. It is sometimes like the difference between a good, well trained sheep dog that is left outside, exposed to all weathers, tethered to a bolt in the ground. Whilst a highly over-bred dog, reduced by breeding manipulations to being a useless mutt that can't even cleans it's own ass, gets brought indoors to be fussed over and pampered, for no other reason than a dictate of fashion. It is unfortunate, but quite likely, the slob in sacha story quite probably has a degree... if not a masters. Patrick |
OT Customers from hell
"Sacha" wrote in message . uk... Rhiannon S12/5/04 1:01 Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: I don't think so. Mrs Thatcher was very punctilious from what I recall. She was very squashing to a radio interviewer who suggested that she didn't say "good morning" to each of her interlocutors so as to 'save time'. Her view appeared to be that time spent on small courtesies wasn't wasted! Had she been here on Sunday this bloke would have been handbagged into the pond himself! -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) Its when I hear tales such as yours I realise the worth of our otherwise useless dog, he is quite large and has a bark you feel through the soles of your feet, the only intruder he has been called upon to deal with was moving so quick he was nearly 2 miles away by the time the police caught him (of course what the scallywag didn't know was the dog had to be woken up by me and dragged down stairs to do his bit!) -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs) |
OT Customers from hell
"David Hill" wrote in message ... No,No, No, No, No. Yes you pick it up into a poly bag then follow to get his address, then put the sealed bag into a jiffy bag (That doesn't have your name or address on it) and post it to him forgetting to put on stamps, that way he has to pay around £1.00 to get the dog mess back. I have done this to people cleaning out their cars in my gateway and who are stupid enough to dump things with their name and address on them (repeat prescription forms, pay slip, expenses claim form and envelope) the latter was from around 40 miles away so I wonder how it was explained to her husband. With it on plane paper a note just saying " Thought you might like these things of yours back as I have no use for them". -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk I liked that :~) but do people really do that? worst we get is crisp packets blowing up the drive. -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs) |
OT Customers from hell
Rhiannon S12/5/04 8:05
Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 12/05/2004 15:50 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: Rhiannon S12/5/04 1:01 Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. -- I don't think so. Mrs Thatcher was very punctilious from what I recall. She was very squashing to a radio interviewer who suggested that she didn't say "good morning" to each of her interlocutors so as to 'save time'. Her view appeared to be that time spent on small courtesies wasn't wasted! Had she been here on Sunday this bloke would have been handbagged into the pond himself! Possibly, but it was the "there is no such thing as society" attitude that allowed the abdication of societal respect. If there is no such thing as society then you can do whatever you please and bugger anyone who feels put out. There's no 'possibly' about it. If people are growing up with bad manners and no respect for others or their property, it's the fault of their upbringing, not our politicians. You might just as well blame Tony Blair or John Prescott or Ian Hague or Charles Kennedy. *Parents* raise children. To suggest otherwise is to excuse the behaviour we saw here. I have three adult children and so does my husband. If they behaved in such a fashion now or when growing up I wouldn't dream of blaming a politician none of us had even met. *That*, IMO, is what leads to the idea that we abdicate responsibility for ourselves and our children and that anyone but the perpetrator is responsible for their own poor behaviour, thus excusing it and empowering it. Neither Mrs Thatcher, nor the man in the moon, led that man to behave as he did in our home. His own wretched morals did that. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the weeds to email me) |
OT Customers from hell
Charlie Pridham12/5/04 8:16
"Sacha" wrote in message . uk... Rhiannon S12/5/04 1:01 Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: I don't think so. Mrs Thatcher was very punctilious from what I recall. She was very squashing to a radio interviewer who suggested that she didn't say "good morning" to each of her interlocutors so as to 'save time'. Her view appeared to be that time spent on small courtesies wasn't wasted! Had she been here on Sunday this bloke would have been handbagged into the pond himself! -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) Its when I hear tales such as yours I realise the worth of our otherwise useless dog, he is quite large and has a bark you feel through the soles of your feet, the only intruder he has been called upon to deal with was moving so quick he was nearly 2 miles away by the time the police caught him (of course what the scallywag didn't know was the dog had to be woken up by me and dragged down stairs to do his bit!) -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs) This was in the middle of the afternoon, with the nursery full of people. The dogs *did* react, bless them, but we were trying to go for the 'quiet life' approach until we saw how thoroughly our hospitality to our customers had been abused. And in fact, these weren't even customers - they came in, let the dog swim in the pond, the 'man' used the public loo and after a few short sharp words, they left. -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) |
OT Customers from hell
"Mike" wrote in message
... Another one I have no hesitation in using is, I hold a door open for someone and they walk straight through. "Sorry what did you say?" I ask, 'I didn't say anything', "Oh I thought you said Thank You" In these circumstances I usually say "You're welcome" very loudly. -- Nick Wagg |
OT Customers from hell
"Rhiannon S" wrote in message
... Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. Goes back a little further than that, I think. According to Umberto Eco's essays it was the 70's that was named "the Me decade", many socially acceptable "norms" ceased to be blindly accepted (for good and for ill). -- Richard Sampson email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk |
OT Customers from hell
On Thu, 13 May 2004 13:40:47 +0100, "RichardS" noaccess@invalid
wrote: "Rhiannon S" wrote in message ... Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. Goes back a little further than that, I think. According to Umberto Eco's essays it was the 70's that was named "the Me decade", many socially acceptable "norms" ceased to be blindly accepted (for good and for ill). but he's a bit slow on the uptake. He wrote about the super kitsch Madonna Inn, San Luis Obispo, California in 1990. http://www.madonnainn.com/ It was on TV in "Tonight" in 1960, as a result I visited it in 1967. |
OT Customers from hell
"Rhiannon S" wrote in message ... Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. Not so, since hardly anyone acts on a politician's sound bites, e.g. John Major's 'back to basics' blandishments which were not only ignored, but were a source of ridicule. Besides, I can remember the reference to there being no such thing as society, which, putting it in context was from - "I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation." - but I don't recall her saying 'other people don't count', nor 'as long as I get my fun no-one else matters'. That was Alan B'stard, surely? |
OT Customers from hell
"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk... Rhiannon S12/5/04 8:05 Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 12/05/2004 15:50 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: Rhiannon S12/5/04 1:01 Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. -- I don't think so. Mrs Thatcher was very punctilious from what I recall. She was very squashing to a radio interviewer who suggested that she didn't say "good morning" to each of her interlocutors so as to 'save time'. Her view appeared to be that time spent on small courtesies wasn't wasted! Had she been here on Sunday this bloke would have been handbagged into the pond himself! Possibly, but it was the "there is no such thing as society" attitude that allowed the abdication of societal respect. If there is no such thing as society then you can do whatever you please and bugger anyone who feels put out. There's no 'possibly' about it. If people are growing up with bad manners and no respect for others or their property, it's the fault of their upbringing, not our politicians. You might just as well blame Tony Blair or John Prescott or Ian Hague or Charles Kennedy. *Parents* raise children. To suggest otherwise is to excuse the behaviour we saw here. I have three adult children and so does my husband. If they behaved in such a fashion now or when growing up I wouldn't dream of blaming a politician none of us had even met. *That*, IMO, is what leads to the idea that we abdicate responsibility for ourselves and our children and that anyone but the perpetrator is responsible for their own poor behaviour, thus excusing it and empowering it. Neither Mrs Thatcher, nor the man in the moon, led that man to behave as he did in our home. His own wretched morals did that. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the weeds to email me) Absolutely, coudln't agree more with all this, it's amazing how many people love to blame "something else", oh it's education, it's society, it's politicians, I mean if that was that case, then it would be fair to say that there never used to be jobs, there never used to be crime, there never used to be any problems at all, and it's tantamount to sticking your head in the sand and saying it's not my fault, it's not my problem, and there in lies the real problem. Not enough people think about the consequences of their actions, they do not consider other people to be important, and this leads to most of the current social problems we witness, and in fact probably always has. Duncan p.s. In this case, I think the man was obviously a pig, used to bullying people and getting away with it, great that Ray stood up to him, and even better that he backed down and effectively ran away with his tail between his legs. Shame you can't stick up some notice effectively banning him and his from your plot in future. |
OT Customers from hell
In article , RichardS
noaccess@invalid.? writes According to Umberto Eco's essays it was the 70's that was named "the Me decade", many socially acceptable "norms" ceased to be blindly accepted (for good and for ill). True, but that was allied to a general concern about people, the environment and the world, which seemed to decrease during the 80s, when the virtue of self reliance seemed to become tainted with the corollary that 'and if you can't look after yourself, it's a defect in you and you are therefore less worthy and don't deserve to be looked after' ... well, that's how it seemed to me, but I'm not putting forward any explanations for the cause! -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
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"Sacha" wrote in message after Charlie... Its when I hear tales such as yours I realise the worth of our otherwise useless dog, he is quite large and has a bark you feel through the soles of your feet, the only intruder he has been called upon to deal with was moving so quick he was nearly 2 miles away by the time the police caught him (of course what the scallywag didn't know was the dog had to be woken up by me and dragged down stairs to do his bit!) This was in the middle of the afternoon, with the nursery full of people. The dogs *did* react, bless them, but we were trying to go for the 'quiet life' approach until we saw how thoroughly our hospitality to our customers had been abused. And in fact, these weren't even customers - they came in, let the dog swim in the pond, the 'man' used the public loo and after a few short sharp words, they left. You mean they didn't even stop for your excellent tea and cake, total morons! :-) -- Regards Bob Some photos of my plants at..... Hope you like them. |
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Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:204615
"John Edgar" wrote in message ... I've only just stopped seething about this and Ray still has the odd dark mutter - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For a moment we were looking for the Candid Camera, so astonished were we at this outrageous behaviour. Luckily, it's the only time anything *quite* as nasty as this has happened and I hope it's the last! I think you can blame the education system. A significant proportion of at least one generation from the late '70s and '80s grew up seemingly in a complete vacuum re. social mores, and with little or no grounding about our particular society, and I mean particluarly England and/or Great Britain. I believe a social experiment has been carried out in order to produce a population which has no "baggage" from the past. We seem to have produced some people who are empty vessels in regard to "fitting in" and perhaps even in regard to basic knowledge. Now, I am trying to understand this for what it is, because in the other direction, education can and has been used for propaganda purposes, but there has to be some sort of happy medium, in which people learn to have certain "standards" but can question them in a rational way, rather then simply not understand, or be plain ignorant. This is very complicated and you could get into all sorts of areas re. "the establishment" and its traditional disdain, and therefore lack of thought regarding educating the masses or not. It used not to matter whether we were educated or not, because the same people held sway over us. That has changed, thankfully, but perhaps it went too far the other way, and some sort of order needs to be regained now. Perhaps a start has been made with "citizenship" classes. Rather too many "" in this piece I am afraid but I haven't really planned this response. It's been a sort of stream of conscience. Sorry about that. Sorry, I 'grew up' in the 80's education system, as did most of my friends. So I presume we must all be some sort of yob - in your view? I would like to say that the person who is being 'plain ignorant', in this case is you. John In limine sapientiae |
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"Sacha" wrote in message . uk... Rhiannon S12/5/04 8:05 There's no 'possibly' about it. If people are growing up with bad manners and no respect for others or their property, it's the fault of their upbringing, not our politicians. I wondered if "upbringing" was included in John Edgar's; "I think you can blame the education system." Is not upbringing part of the education system? His post did not define that point. Take for example the info I posted about nursery theft (BTW, I meant the your experience was dreadful,.. not the posting of it :-) There have been times when upon relating this, the remarks that followed seemed to indicate an element of admiration for the thief. It most be said that those who are most likely to react in that way are now in the 60's & 70's. They are equally as likely to voice such admiration in front of minors, thereby providing some very bad education. In the case of such unfiltered admiration, it follows that it can only come from those who are evidently not fit to judge whether someone else was clever or not. It's nice that no one did that here. What my follow up to his post was really getting at is that it is market forces that rule our accademic education system and so if his definition was purely centred on that, then because it is market forces that rule and not teachers, then schools should not be blamed thus. Unfortuneately, it is often a deluded *excessive* faith in market forces that often leads to assumptions which revolve around ideas of meritocracy. This in turn leads to assumptions that so-called educated people don't behave badly. That it is the so-called (relatively) uneducated that are easier to blame, which is why they are deemed deserving of poor pay and status. And such obsurdities need to be pointed out more often. You might just as well blame Tony Blair or John Prescott or Ian Hague or Charles Kennedy. *Parents* raise children. With a little help from *Society* Patrick |
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D Russell13/5/04 2:31
"Sacha" wrote in message . uk... Rhiannon S12/5/04 8:05 Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 12/05/2004 15:50 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: Rhiannon S12/5/04 1:01 Subject: OT Customers from hell From: Sacha Date: 11/05/2004 16:57 GMT Daylight Time Message-id: - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, there is no such thing as society, and of course, as long as I get my fun noone else matters. -- I don't think so. Mrs Thatcher was very punctilious from what I recall. She was very squashing to a radio interviewer who suggested that she didn't say "good morning" to each of her interlocutors so as to 'save time'. Her view appeared to be that time spent on small courtesies wasn't wasted! Had she been here on Sunday this bloke would have been handbagged into the pond himself! Possibly, but it was the "there is no such thing as society" attitude that allowed the abdication of societal respect. If there is no such thing as society then you can do whatever you please and bugger anyone who feels put out. There's no 'possibly' about it. If people are growing up with bad manners and no respect for others or their property, it's the fault of their upbringing, not our politicians. You might just as well blame Tony Blair or John Prescott or Ian Hague or Charles Kennedy. *Parents* raise children. To suggest otherwise is to excuse the behaviour we saw here. I have three adult children and so does my husband. If they behaved in such a fashion now or when growing up I wouldn't dream of blaming a politician none of us had even met. *That*, IMO, is what leads to the idea that we abdicate responsibility for ourselves and our children and that anyone but the perpetrator is responsible for their own poor behaviour, thus excusing it and empowering it. Neither Mrs Thatcher, nor the man in the moon, led that man to behave as he did in our home. His own wretched morals did that. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the weeds to email me) Absolutely, coudln't agree more with all this, it's amazing how many people love to blame "something else", oh it's education, it's society, it's politicians, I mean if that was that case, then it would be fair to say that there never used to be jobs, there never used to be crime, there never used to be any problems at all, and it's tantamount to sticking your head in the sand and saying it's not my fault, it's not my problem, and there in lies the real problem. Not enough people think about the consequences of their actions, they do not consider other people to be important, and this leads to most of the current social problems we witness, and in fact probably always has. Duncan p.s. In this case, I think the man was obviously a pig, used to bullying people and getting away with it, great that Ray stood up to him, and even better that he backed down and effectively ran away with his tail between his legs. Shame you can't stick up some notice effectively banning him and his from your plot in future. To be frank, I doubt he'll return - I really do hope not. He made a complete fool of himself in front of our staff and his own wife - though it is most certainly debatable that he will see it that way. In fact, Ray said that one of the most frustrating things about dealing with this man was not his sheer piggery, but the fact that whatever Ray said to him in an attempt at reason, failed to hit the mark because the bloke was simply too thick. He thought me asking him, politely, to take his dog back to their car made me "an ignorant cow". There isn't much you can do with such oiks, IMO except hope they don't breed. -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) |
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Bob Hobden13/5/04 5:18
"Sacha" wrote in message after Charlie... Its when I hear tales such as yours I realise the worth of our otherwise useless dog, he is quite large and has a bark you feel through the soles of your feet, the only intruder he has been called upon to deal with was moving so quick he was nearly 2 miles away by the time the police caught him (of course what the scallywag didn't know was the dog had to be woken up by me and dragged down stairs to do his bit!) This was in the middle of the afternoon, with the nursery full of people. The dogs *did* react, bless them, but we were trying to go for the 'quiet life' approach until we saw how thoroughly our hospitality to our customers had been abused. And in fact, these weren't even customers - they came in, let the dog swim in the pond, the 'man' used the public loo and after a few short sharp words, they left. You mean they didn't even stop for your excellent tea and cake, total morons! :-) Could there be greater proof of his idiocy......;-) Pity really - had we only thought of it he could have ended up *wearing* one. ;-) In truth, if there is a nice side to all this and we think there is, it is that 99.999999999% of our customers are so delightful, so appreciative that the prat factor stands out rather more on the rare occasions it happens! We do get the "this is paradise" remark much more often, thank goodness. It's a genuine pleasure to see people enjoy and appreciate our home. We're very lucky, really so yes, the 'nasties' do become rather more memorable. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the weeds to email me) |
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tuin man13/5/04 8:02
"Sacha" wrote in message . uk... Rhiannon S12/5/04 8:05 There's no 'possibly' about it. If people are growing up with bad manners and no respect for others or their property, it's the fault of their upbringing, not our politicians. I wondered if "upbringing" was included in John Edgar's; "I think you can blame the education system." Is not upbringing part of the education system? His post did not define that point. snip With a little help from *Society* Patrick PARENTS raise CHILDREN in my view and I'm inclined to think anything else is a cop out. If parents don't like the way a school educates children in its social aspects then they, the parents, must strive to ensure changes are made. My children went to day schools, boarding schools, back to day schools and in one case to a 6th form college. I brought them up alone for the most part and I was rigorous about good manners and behaviour, even when it would have been SO much easier not to bother. At no point did I consider it the sole responsibility of the school to teach my child/ren their manners, their morals or their 'social' good behaviour. AND if I thought any of those schools were at fault, I said so. I would suggest that Society 'helps' only by accepting or rejecting, by which time it may be too late for the individual. -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) |
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"Sacha" wrote in message You mean they didn't even stop for your excellent tea and cake, total morons! :-) Could there be greater proof of his idiocy......;-) Pity really - had we only thought of it he could have ended up *wearing* one. ;-) In truth, if there is a nice side to all this and we think there is, it is that 99.999999999% of our customers are so delightful, so appreciative that the prat factor stands out rather more on the rare occasions it happens! We do get the "this is paradise" remark much more often, thank goodness. It's a genuine pleasure to see people enjoy and appreciate our home. We're very lucky, really so yes, the 'nasties' do become rather more memorable. -- After over 30 years in the retail banking industry I do sympathise with anyone who has to deal with Joe Public on a daily basis. Whilst the ignorant Morons are always a tiny minority, even in the poorer Council Flat type areas, unfortunately they do tend to be the ones remembered. (If only to get my own back IDC.) Personally I think there is a general lowering of personal standards across the board these days, no one cares a toss about anyone else i.e. Red lights don't mean I should stop, use my indicators to indicate my intentions to turn, why? Ask someone to move in a supermarket, no, just force your way past. Loud loutish behaviour after a few beers, waking everyone up. Get a big bass stereo driver in ones car and drive around late at night with the deep thump, thump, thump doing the same........ it's everywhere these days. ( and those are examples I've experienced in the last 24 hours!) Grumpy old man, who me? :-) -- Regards Bob Some photos of my plants at..... Hope you like them. |
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Another one I have no hesitation in using is, I hold a door open for someone and they walk straight through. "Sorry what did you say?" I ask, 'I didn't say anything', "Oh I thought you said Thank You" In these circumstances I usually say "You're welcome" very loudly. -- Nick Wagg I like that one! It's shorter and to the point. Thanks Mike |
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On Thu, 13 May 2004 18:40:22 +0100, "Jabba"
wrote: "John Edgar" wrote in message .. . I've only just stopped seething about this and Ray still has the odd dark mutter - but I cannot begin to imagine what gets into people or where their wits are, if they think this is any way to behave *anywhere*, let alone in someone else's garden! For a moment we were looking for the Candid Camera, so astonished were we at this outrageous behaviour. Luckily, it's the only time anything *quite* as nasty as this has happened and I hope it's the last! I think you can blame the education system. A significant proportion of at least one generation from the late '70s and '80s grew up seemingly in a complete vacuum re. social mores, and with little or no grounding about our particular society, and I mean particluarly England and/or Great Britain. I believe a social experiment has been carried out in order to produce a population which has no "baggage" from the past. We seem to have produced some people who are empty vessels in regard to "fitting in" and perhaps even in regard to basic knowledge. Now, I am trying to understand this for what it is, because in the other direction, education can and has been used for propaganda purposes, but there has to be some sort of happy medium, in which people learn to have certain "standards" but can question them in a rational way, rather then simply not understand, or be plain ignorant. This is very complicated and you could get into all sorts of areas re. "the establishment" and its traditional disdain, and therefore lack of thought regarding educating the masses or not. It used not to matter whether we were educated or not, because the same people held sway over us. That has changed, thankfully, but perhaps it went too far the other way, and some sort of order needs to be regained now. Perhaps a start has been made with "citizenship" classes. Rather too many "" in this piece I am afraid but I haven't really planned this response. It's been a sort of stream of conscience. Sorry about that. Sorry, I 'grew up' in the 80's education system, as did most of my friends. So I presume we must all be some sort of yob - in your view? I would like to say that the person who is being 'plain ignorant', in this case is you. Please read the first line of my reply. It says " . . . a significant proportion . . ." Obviously you are not part of that significant proportion. If you were you would not have understood the words or been able to write a coherent reply. John In limine sapientiae John In limine sapientiae |
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snip
I wondered if "upbringing" was included in John Edgar's; "I think you can blame the education system." Is not upbringing part of the education system? His post did not define that point. snip Yes, absolutely, but the issues become even more complicated then, and I do not feel capable of expressing them properly here. This is also probably not the place to do it. But I will say that if "upbringing" is included, then that implies that there is another generation further back who have also not been educated in a conventional sense, as they clearly have not imparted social mores and conventions down the line. Either they did not want to, because they did not think it important to do so as their education gave them that opinion, or they simply did not know what to do or how to do it. John In limine sapientiae |
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"Sacha" wrote in message . uk... D Russell13/5/04 2:31 major snip To be frank, I doubt he'll return - I really do hope not. He made a complete fool of himself in front of our staff and his own wife - though it is most certainly debatable that he will see it that way. In fact, Ray said that one of the most frustrating things about dealing with this man was not his sheer piggery, but the fact that whatever Ray said to him in an attempt at reason, failed to hit the mark because the bloke was simply too thick. He thought me asking him, politely, to take his dog back to their car made me "an ignorant cow". There isn't much you can do with such oiks, IMO except hope they don't breed. -- Sacha (remove the weeds to email me) I do hope for both your sakes that he doesn't return. 'tis best to try to forget him as swiftly as possible, I find myself hating it when I let people like that get to me, mind you I let far too much get to me, like the morons down our road who insist on flytipping in the hedge where we all have to drive past in the mornings, one day I'll get me camera . . . Duncan Duncan |
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In article , Rhiannon S
writes For that we can say "Thank You Mrs Thatcher", who taught us all that other people don't count, She did ?????????????? Some people just have to have any excuse to blame their own deficiencies on, don't they :(((((((((( -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see |
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