Mare'- tail.
 

Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?
Best Wishes Brian.

Mare'- tail.
 

In article ,
Brian wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

We don't need to pretend! The term Mare's Tail refers to two plants,
and it is the Equisetum that is meant here. Just as Bluebell refers
to two plants, depending on where you are in the UK. If you want to
be botanically precise, use botanical Latin.

In this newsgroup, some posters use common names, some may use only
Latin ones (but I can't think of any, offhand), and a lot flip between
common names and Latin ones as and when it seems good to them.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Mare'- tail.
 

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different things?
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

In article ,
Kay Easton writes:
|
| Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?

An eating apple?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Mare'- tail.
 

Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"

Victoria

--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

Mare'- tail.
 

"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
. 240.10...
Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure
that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"


Or refer to them as the cumbersome:

Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (nee Anemonella thalictroides)

:-)


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Mare'- tail.
 

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made
in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and
lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail
was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

We don't need to pretend! The term Mare's Tail refers to two plants,
and it is the Equisetum that is meant here. Just as Bluebell refers
to two plants, depending on where you are in the UK. If you want to
be botanically precise, use botanical Latin.

In this newsgroup, some posters use common names, some may use only
Latin ones (but I can't think of any, offhand), and a lot flip between
common names and Latin ones as and when it seems good to them.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick,
Horsetail is nowhere mentioned as a local name for Mare's-tail. It does
feature, however, as a 'frequently mis-identified'!
Your supposition would beg the question: "If Horsetail is known locally as
Mare's-tail then what is the local name for Mare's-tail?"
Your analogy with bluebells is widely known; so much so that it is
customary to give a national prefix~English, Spanish and Scottish etc. They
are all flowering plants unlike the 'tails.
Best Wishes.
Brian

Mare'- tail.
 

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made
in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and
lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail
was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different things?
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


--
Kay Easton
Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances. I also have the remnants of a
delightful Victorian manual of alternative names with their derivations~~not
that it is to hand.
Best Wishes
Brian.

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

In article ,
Brian wrote:

Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

We don't need to pretend! The term Mare's Tail refers to two plants,
and it is the Equisetum that is meant here. Just as Bluebell refers
to two plants, depending on where you are in the UK. If you want to
be botanically precise, use botanical Latin.

Horsetail is nowhere mentioned as a local name for Mare's-tail. It does
feature, however, as a 'frequently mis-identified'!

That would mean that Horsetail was the name for two plants! The
situation is the other way round, and the use of Mare's Tail for
Equisetum is widespread and patchy rather than local.

Your supposition would beg the question: "If Horsetail is known locally as
Mare's-tail then what is the local name for Mare's-tail?"

Why should it have one? There aren't common names for every plant,
and it isn't rare for one common name to relate to two unrelated
plants. Samphire is another example.

Your analogy with bluebells is widely known; so much so that it is
customary to give a national prefix~English, Spanish and Scottish etc. They
are all flowering plants unlike the 'tails.

The normal use is just "bluebell". People will qualify as and when
they feel it necessary. Learn to live with the chaos that is normal
English usage :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Mare'- tail.
 

In article , RichardS
noaccess@invalid.? writes
"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
.240.10...
Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure
that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"


Or refer to them as the cumbersome:

Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (nee Anemonella thalictroides)

:-)

... except that the usual term is 'syn'
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different things?
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some use the
name for sweet williams.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
. 240.10...
Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure
that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"

Victoria

--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall

Victoria,
Thank you for your contribution. The Dorotheanthus reminded me of my
greatest embarrasment ever.
A very sophisticated, unmarried and rather pompous lady lecturer was
retiring and knowing what a gardener she was [as well as a botanist] I
discovered a plant that had her whole name~ Miss Mary XXXX.
This was presented at her leaving party during which she read out both
sides of the label. Unfortunately I hadn't read fully.
" How thoughtful ~ my name~ and on the reverse 'A good bedder' "
I got full blame~ and still blush.
Regards Brian.










--

Mare'- tail.
 

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI
kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some use the
name for sweet williams.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

I don't think I do agree. Those who thought otherwise were simply wrong.
There is no other flower called 'Gillyflower' or you would not agree I was
correct. I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic times and
is still in use.
We might use the wrong name at times but that proves only that we were
wrong!
Horsetail and Mare's-tail as names, go back hundreds of years~~ long before
Carl Lin. That only the mare's-tail is a flowering plant was only discovered
relatively recently~~200yrs.
Back to the original posting. Pre-suppose she really meant Mare's-tail~~
how would we have responded without being wrong?
Regards Brian 'flayb' to respond.

Mare'- tail.
 

In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI
kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some use the
name for sweet williams.


I don't think I do agree.

I meant you agreed that wallflowers were gillyflowers.

Those who thought otherwise were simply wrong.
There is no other flower called 'Gillyflower' or you would not agree I was
correct.

No, you're right, we don't agree!

I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic times and
is still in use.

I don't know how far back the usage of gillyflower for pink goes, but a
long time back. And it seems more common than its usage for wallflower.

Back to the original posting. Pre-suppose she really meant Mare's-tail~~
how would we have responded without being wrong?

That is a good argument for using the botanical names.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI
kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some use the
name for sweet williams.


I don't think I do agree.

I meant you agreed that wallflowers were gillyflowers.

Those who thought otherwise were simply wrong.
There is no other flower called 'Gillyflower' or you would not agree I
was
correct.

No, you're right, we don't agree!

I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic times
and
is still in use.

I don't know how far back the usage of gillyflower for pink goes, but a
long time back. And it seems more common than its usage for wallflower.

Back to the original posting. Pre-suppose she really meant
Mare's-tail~~
how would we have responded without being wrong?

That is a good argument for using the botanical names.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm


Thanks Kay~~absit invidia.
I am totally sure that if she had used Latin then none would have
responded.
Even when she gave the only common name for Hippuris we all jumped to the
wrong conclusion. Mare's-tail is always in the index of Wild Flowers whereas
the Latin is separate. Mare's tail was established as the name for this
marsh plant in 1762. No other variant has been recorded by OED or RHS.
Gillyflower[July flower], on the other hand, has had a lengthy history of
alternatives due to its name, and even that has a history of its own. ME~
gilofre, gerofle, geraflour, gelyflour, jillfflower~~July-flower.XV1th C.
By 1513 it was applied to Cloves! and hence to clove scented
flowers~especially Dianthus caryophyllus and only in dialect to
Wall-gillyflower and then to Stock-gillyflower. By 1657 it was applied to
the Gillyflower-apple. I had several of these till quite recently~ they root
very easily from cuttings. The lower branches even produce aerial roots. In
1685 there was a gillyflower grass.
Since 1702 'Gillyflower' has been attributed only to Northern dialects as
the Wallflower. It was then decreed to apply it only to the Wallflower, in
dialect, and to ignore the July flowering aspect. Totally so in Scotland,
as it was so similar to their Gaelic.
However~ to confuse even further, we can still use dame's g.[Dame's
Violet] English g. [Carnation] as well as 'feathered' 'mock' 'striped' and
yellow gillyflower all for different flowers!! But I wouldn't dare!!
All of the above is well documented and make good soporific reading.
Did you notice you and I were correct with the identification of the
Verbascum?[Tracey]
Best Wishes Brian.

Mare'- tail.
 

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , RichardS
noaccess@invalid.? writes
"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
.240.10...
Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as
different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure
that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"


Or refer to them as the cumbersome:

Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (nee Anemonella thalictroides)

:-)

.. except that the usual term is 'syn'

Ah, I knew that there must be a correct term for it. Thanks!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Mare'- tail.
 

Big Snip~~

Taking all the above into account the only conclusion, logically, is that if
the original poster, Judith Lea, had given the correct botanical name for
her Mare's-tail by consulting a flora; then she would not have obtained the
information she wanted.
Her mistake, compounded by ours, came to the conclusion she did want!!.
Near to a double negative!
Botanical names only have value if applied to the correct plant.
Regrets! Brian

Mare'- tail.
 

In article ,
Brian wrote:

I am totally sure that if she had used Latin then none would have
responded.

I'm not. There are at least a dozen regular posters on this group
who are happy with botanical Latin, and it is possible that the
majority are.

Even when she gave the only common name for Hippuris we all jumped to the
wrong conclusion. Mare's-tail is always in the index of Wild Flowers whereas
the Latin is separate. Mare's tail was established as the name for this
marsh plant in 1762. No other variant has been recorded by OED or RHS.

Sigh. It is the only common name for Hippuris, but it is MORE OFTEN
used for Equisetum. Live with it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Mare'- tail.
 

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my
HLI
kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do
so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some
use the
name for sweet williams.


I don't think I do agree.

I meant you agreed that wallflowers were gillyflowers.

According to OED, gillyflowers are clove scented pinks, wallflowers
and white stock.
The RHS encyc. does not list it as a common name at all
If my memory serves me right, the old Everyman book on gardening said
they were carnations.

Those who thought otherwise were simply wrong.
There is no other flower called 'Gillyflower' or you would not
agree I was
correct.

No, you're right, we don't agree!

I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic
times and
is still in use.

I don't know how far back the usage of gillyflower for pink goes,
but a
long time back. And it seems more common than its usage for
wallflower.

Back to the original posting. Pre-suppose she really meant
Mare's-tail~~
how would we have responded without being wrong?

That is a good argument for using the botanical names.

Hear hear. It would be even better if all taxonomists found something
else to do.

Franz

Mare'- tail.
 

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
.. .

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , RichardS
noaccess@invalid.? writes
"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
.240.10...
Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as
different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be
sure
that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"


Or refer to them as the cumbersome:

Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (nee Anemonella thalictroides)

:-)

.. except that the usual term is 'syn'

Ah, I knew that there must be a correct term for it. Thanks!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
***************************
Let's be pedantic!. "syn" is not an actual word in itself, it is an
abbreviation, - synonymous. - er, - like,- innit?. Meaning. "The same
s" - like-wot-ah-mean, - innit?. (:^)
Doug.
***************************

Mare'- tail.
 

The message
from "Brian" contains these words:

Big Snip~~

Taking all the above into account the only conclusion, logically, is that if
the original poster, Judith Lea, had given the correct botanical name for
her Mare's-tail by consulting a flora; then she would not have obtained the
information she wanted.
Her mistake, compounded by ours, came to the conclusion she did want!!.
Near to a double negative!

Fortunately, Brian, urgler Judith is highly skilled at dealing with
life's little reversals :-)

Janet

Mare'- tail.
 

The message
from Kay Easton contains these words:

In article , Brian
writes

I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic times and
is still in use.

I don't know how far back the usage of gillyflower for pink goes, but a
long time back. And it seems more common than its usage for wallflower.

Both Chaucer and Shakespeare refer to gillyflowers iirc. 18 months
after our move I still haven't unpacked the books (scream; bookshelf
maker promised for June)..so I can't look up the references to see which
palnt they meant :-)

Janet.

Mare'- tail.
 

"Douglas" wrote in message
...

snip
:-)

.. except that the usual term is 'syn'

Ah, I knew that there must be a correct term for it. Thanks!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
***************************
Let's be pedantic!. "syn" is not an actual word in itself, it is an
abbreviation, - synonymous. - er, - like,- innit?. Meaning. "The same
s" - like-wot-ah-mean, - innit?. (:^)
Doug.
***************************

ah, but I didn't say "word" ;-)

I dont' intend to go any further down this path - it's not an area where I
can converse with any authority whatsoever, as demonstrated by my suggestion
a couple of posts back!

Suffice to say, I've learned something, and I'm happy with that!


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Mare'- tail.
 

In article , Brian
writes

Thanks Kay~~absit invidia.
I am totally sure that if she had used Latin then none would have
responded.

What makes you say that?


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

In article , Brian
writes

Did you notice you and I were correct with the identification of the
Verbascum?[Tracey]

Wasn't me! I'm no good with verbascums!

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

In article , Franz Heymann
writes
Hear hear. It would be even better if all taxonomists found something
else to do.

Now that I really must take issue with!
What taxonomists are trying to do is establish the 'family tree' for
plants (or animals) - which in turn is the basis for many similarities
of properties and underpins a good deal of botany, horticulture and
agriculture.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Franz Heymann
writes
Hear hear. It would be even better if all taxonomists found
something
else to do.

Now that I really must take issue with!
What taxonomists are trying to do is establish the 'family tree' for
plants (or animals) - which in turn is the basis for many
similarities
of properties and underpins a good deal of botany, horticulture and
agriculture.

Indeed. But they get it wrong far too often. Why don't they just
leave it to the DNA wallahs to sort things?

(Apologies to any urglers who might be taxonomists {:-(

Franz

Mare'- tail.
 

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

Thanks Kay~~absit invidia.
I am totally sure that if she had used Latin then none would have
responded.

What makes you say that?


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

I meant that the information she would have received would have been
related to Mare's-tail~Hippuris [Greek!] which is not what she wanted. There
are more than enough of us to have responded accordingly. This being an
instance when the botanical name would have been a hindrance. Mare'-tail was
not what she intended and not what we assumed!! Even worse, one of us is
employed as a Botanical examiner/reader.
Best Wishes Brian.

Mare'- tail.
 

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message
...
The message
from Kay Easton contains these words:

In article , Brian
writes

I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic times
and
is still in use.

I don't know how far back the usage of gillyflower for pink goes, but a
long time back. And it seems more common than its usage for wallflower.

Both Chaucer and Shakespeare refer to gillyflowers iirc. 18 months
after our move I still haven't unpacked the books (scream; bookshelf
maker promised for June)..so I can't look up the references to see which
plant they meant :-)

Janet.

Welcome back from the US group. You must have an iron will to bother with
some of the stupid, bigoted Americans!
The history of the Gillyflower usage was covered in my posting on the 29th
at 13.to Kay. Practically everything from Cloves to Apples before settled
on Wallflower.
Regards Brian.

Mare'- tail.
 

In article ,
Franz Heymann wrote:

Now that I really must take issue with!
What taxonomists are trying to do is establish the 'family tree' for
plants (or animals) - which in turn is the basis for many
similarities
of properties and underpins a good deal of botany, horticulture and
agriculture.

Indeed. But they get it wrong far too often. Why don't they just
leave it to the DNA wallahs to sort things?

Because DNA leads to only one taxonomy, and not necessarily the most
meaningful one in evolutionary, biological or ecological terms.

You did ask :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Mare'- tail.
 

In article , Franz Heymann
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Franz Heymann
writes
Hear hear. It would be even better if all taxonomists found
something
else to do.

Now that I really must take issue with!
What taxonomists are trying to do is establish the 'family tree' for
plants (or animals) - which in turn is the basis for many
similarities
of properties and underpins a good deal of botany, horticulture and
agriculture.

Indeed. But they get it wrong far too often.

I don't think changing of names is the same as 'getting it wrong'. It's
about reacting to increases in knowledge

Why don't they just
leave it to the DNA wallahs to sort things?

Well, that's only been round as an option for 25 years or so.
Taxonomists got an awful long way before that.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Mare'- tail.
 

Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , RichardS
noaccess@invalid.? writes
"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
8.240.10...
Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"


Or refer to them as the cumbersome:

Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (nee Anemonella thalictroides)

:-)

.. except that the usual term is 'syn'

which is fine, as long as you know both/all the names.

I'd should point out for the benefit of anyone browsing future archives
that:

Dorotheanthus bellidiformis is *not* the same as Anemonella
thalictroides.

They were just a couple of names of rebadged plants that came to mind -
should have made that clearer!

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--