Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?
Best Wishes Brian.

In article ,
Brian wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

We don't need to pretend! The term Mare's Tail refers to two plants,
and it is the Equisetum that is meant here. Just as Bluebell refers
to two plants, depending on where you are in the UK. If you want to
be botanically precise, use botanical Latin.

In this newsgroup, some posters use common names, some may use only
Latin ones (but I can't think of any, offhand), and a lot flip between
common names and Latin ones as and when it seems good to them.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different things?
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article ,
Kay Easton writes:
|
| Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?

An eating apple?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"

Victoria

--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
. 240.10...
Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure
that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"


Or refer to them as the cumbersome:

Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (nee Anemonella thalictroides)

:-)


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made
in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and
lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail
was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

We don't need to pretend! The term Mare's Tail refers to two plants,
and it is the Equisetum that is meant here. Just as Bluebell refers
to two plants, depending on where you are in the UK. If you want to
be botanically precise, use botanical Latin.

In this newsgroup, some posters use common names, some may use only
Latin ones (but I can't think of any, offhand), and a lot flip between
common names and Latin ones as and when it seems good to them.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick,
Horsetail is nowhere mentioned as a local name for Mare's-tail. It does
feature, however, as a 'frequently mis-identified'!
Your supposition would beg the question: "If Horsetail is known locally as
Mare's-tail then what is the local name for Mare's-tail?"
Your analogy with bluebells is widely known; so much so that it is
customary to give a national prefix~English, Spanish and Scottish etc. They
are all flowering plants unlike the 'tails.
Best Wishes.
Brian

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake made
in
identification and suggested eradication.
Surely everyone was meaning 'Horsetail' and not Mare's tail?
Only Horsetail has the silica- impregnated stems [pot scourers] and
lack
flowers~closer to ferns.
Mare's-tail [Hippuridaceae] does have true [diminutive] flowers and
produces tiny nuts in the Autumn.
Mare's-tail is not a weed in the same league as Horsetail [Equisetum] in
any way!!
They do have a roughly similar appearance and originally Mare's-tail
was
given that name as it was believed to be the feminine form. It is a
semi-aquatic plant.
I don't mean to stir matters but I'm convinced there was an error!!
Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different things?
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


--
Kay Easton
Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances. I also have the remnants of a
delightful Victorian manual of alternative names with their derivations~~not
that it is to hand.
Best Wishes
Brian.

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article ,
Brian wrote:

Can we just pretend we meant Horsetail all the time?

We don't need to pretend! The term Mare's Tail refers to two plants,
and it is the Equisetum that is meant here. Just as Bluebell refers
to two plants, depending on where you are in the UK. If you want to
be botanically precise, use botanical Latin.

Horsetail is nowhere mentioned as a local name for Mare's-tail. It does
feature, however, as a 'frequently mis-identified'!

That would mean that Horsetail was the name for two plants! The
situation is the other way round, and the use of Mare's Tail for
Equisetum is widespread and patchy rather than local.

Your supposition would beg the question: "If Horsetail is known locally as
Mare's-tail then what is the local name for Mare's-tail?"

Why should it have one? There aren't common names for every plant,
and it isn't rare for one common name to relate to two unrelated
plants. Samphire is another example.

Your analogy with bluebells is widely known; so much so that it is
customary to give a national prefix~English, Spanish and Scottish etc. They
are all flowering plants unlike the 'tails.

The normal use is just "bluebell". People will qualify as and when
they feel it necessary. Learn to live with the chaos that is normal
English usage :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , RichardS
noaccess@invalid.? writes
"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
.240.10...
Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure
that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"


Or refer to them as the cumbersome:

Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (nee Anemonella thalictroides)

:-)

... except that the usual term is 'syn'
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different things?
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some use the
name for sweet williams.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
. 240.10...
Kay Easton wrote in
:

In article , Brian
writes
Sorry to bring this up again but I'm sure there was a major mistake
made in identification

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?

The botanical names can be pretty baffling too, unless you can be sure
that
everyone is using the same edition of the RHS encyclopaedia!

Maybe we should use the biographer's convention:

"Anemonella thalictroides (as she then was)..."

"Dorotheanthus bellidiformis (as she now is)"

Victoria

--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall

Victoria,
Thank you for your contribution. The Dorotheanthus reminded me of my
greatest embarrasment ever.
A very sophisticated, unmarried and rather pompous lady lecturer was
retiring and knowing what a gardener she was [as well as a botanist] I
discovered a plant that had her whole name~ Miss Mary XXXX.
This was presented at her leaving party during which she read out both
sides of the label. Unfortunately I hadn't read fully.
" How thoughtful ~ my name~ and on the reverse 'A good bedder' "
I got full blame~ and still blush.
Regards Brian.










--

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Or perhaps just accept that common names are not accurate as different
people in different areas of the country apply them to different
things?
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI
kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some use the
name for sweet williams.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

I don't think I do agree. Those who thought otherwise were simply wrong.
There is no other flower called 'Gillyflower' or you would not agree I was
correct. I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic times and
is still in use.
We might use the wrong name at times but that proves only that we were
wrong!
Horsetail and Mare's-tail as names, go back hundreds of years~~ long before
Carl Lin. That only the mare's-tail is a flowering plant was only discovered
relatively recently~~200yrs.
Back to the original posting. Pre-suppose she really meant Mare's-tail~~
how would we have responded without being wrong?
Regards Brian 'flayb' to respond.

In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI
kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some use the
name for sweet williams.


I don't think I do agree.

I meant you agreed that wallflowers were gillyflowers.

Those who thought otherwise were simply wrong.
There is no other flower called 'Gillyflower' or you would not agree I was
correct.

No, you're right, we don't agree!

I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic times and
is still in use.

I don't know how far back the usage of gillyflower for pink goes, but a
long time back. And it seems more common than its usage for wallflower.

Back to the original posting. Pre-suppose she really meant Mare's-tail~~
how would we have responded without being wrong?

That is a good argument for using the botanical names.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian
writes

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
Which plant do you know as gillyflower, for example?


Thank you Kay~~ I do know the Gillyflower and still have my HLI
kilt!
And I was frequently ignored at dances.

So you agree with me on that one .. first person I've met to do so. It
seems most people mean pink when they say gillyflower, and some use the
name for sweet williams.


I don't think I do agree.

I meant you agreed that wallflowers were gillyflowers.

Those who thought otherwise were simply wrong.
There is no other flower called 'Gillyflower' or you would not agree I
was
correct.

No, you're right, we don't agree!

I would suspect that wrong names for the Gillyflower have only been
given when being questioned. This has been its name since Gaelic times
and
is still in use.

I don't know how far back the usage of gillyflower for pink goes, but a
long time back. And it seems more common than its usage for wallflower.

Back to the original posting. Pre-suppose she really meant
Mare's-tail~~
how would we have responded without being wrong?

That is a good argument for using the botanical names.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm


Thanks Kay~~absit invidia.
I am totally sure that if she had used Latin then none would have
responded.
Even when she gave the only common name for Hippuris we all jumped to the
wrong conclusion. Mare's-tail is always in the index of Wild Flowers whereas
the Latin is separate. Mare's tail was established as the name for this
marsh plant in 1762. No other variant has been recorded by OED or RHS.
Gillyflower[July flower], on the other hand, has had a lengthy history of
alternatives due to its name, and even that has a history of its own. ME~
gilofre, gerofle, geraflour, gelyflour, jillfflower~~July-flower.XV1th C.
By 1513 it was applied to Cloves! and hence to clove scented
flowers~especially Dianthus caryophyllus and only in dialect to
Wall-gillyflower and then to Stock-gillyflower. By 1657 it was applied to
the Gillyflower-apple. I had several of these till quite recently~ they root
very easily from cuttings. The lower branches even produce aerial roots. In
1685 there was a gillyflower grass.
Since 1702 'Gillyflower' has been attributed only to Northern dialects as
the Wallflower. It was then decreed to apply it only to the Wallflower, in
dialect, and to ignore the July flowering aspect. Totally so in Scotland,
as it was so similar to their Gaelic.
However~ to confuse even further, we can still use dame's g.[Dame's
Violet] English g. [Carnation] as well as 'feathered' 'mock' 'striped' and
yellow gillyflower all for different flowers!! But I wouldn't dare!!
All of the above is well documented and make good soporific reading.
Did you notice you and I were correct with the identification of the
Verbascum?[Tracey]
Best Wishes Brian.