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Wild wild rocket
If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket
(actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any harm, will it? Mike. |
Wild wild rocket
Mike Lyle wrote:
SNIP 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any harm, will it? How strange you should say that, I was wandering through our local graveyard, and that was almost exactly the inscription on a tombstone! ;-) -- Please do not reply by Email, as all emails to this address are automatically deleted. |
Wild wild rocket
Mike Lyle wrote:
SNIP 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any harm, will it? How strange you should say that, I was wandering through our local graveyard, and that was almost exactly the inscription on a tombstone! ;-) -- Please do not reply by Email, as all emails to this address are automatically deleted. |
Wild wild rocket
Mike Lyle wrote:
:: If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket :: (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call :: Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to :: call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me :: any harm, will it? :: :: Mike. Lots of plants have very potent toxins in them...TBH, I wouldn't take the risk unless you are *positive* that what you are getting is the actual plant you are looking for - many 'similar' looking plants are in fact deadly! this link has many photographs of Sisymbrium officinale, whether this *is* wild rocket, I do not know! http://makeashorterlink.com/?A30D253E8 HTH |
Wild wild rocket
In article , Phil L
writes Mike Lyle wrote: :: If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket :: (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call :: Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to :: call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me :: any harm, will it? :: :: Mike. Lots of plants have very potent toxins in them...TBH, I wouldn't take the risk unless you are *positive* that what you are getting is the actual plant you are looking for - many 'similar' looking plants are in fact deadly! Which are you thinking of? I'd always thought of the Cruciferae as one of the less hazardous families - though I'd not recommend the OP to experiment as I'm not 100% sure on this point. -- Kay "Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river" |
Wild wild rocket
In article , Phil L
writes Mike Lyle wrote: :: If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket :: (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call :: Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to :: call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me :: any harm, will it? :: :: Mike. Lots of plants have very potent toxins in them...TBH, I wouldn't take the risk unless you are *positive* that what you are getting is the actual plant you are looking for - many 'similar' looking plants are in fact deadly! Which are you thinking of? I'd always thought of the Cruciferae as one of the less hazardous families - though I'd not recommend the OP to experiment as I'm not 100% sure on this point. -- Kay "Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river" |
Wild wild rocket
In article , "Phil L" writes: | Kay wrote: | :: | :: Which are you thinking of? I'd always thought of the Cruciferae as | :: one of the less hazardous families - though I'd not recommend the | :: OP to experiment as I'm not 100% sure on this point. | | some types of mustard are toxic, at least the seeds and pods, although not | deadly, a severe case of gastroenteritis will follow their consumption. | http://www.aun.edu.eg/distance/pharm...s_brassica.htm Er, "severe"? Almost certainly mild. And you are likely to be warned by the very strong burning sensation, which is what mustard is all about! Furthermore, the damage isn't likely to be permanent. Unless you go bonkers, either with quantity or ignoring danger signs, this isn't likely to be a major risk. But care is indicated. DON'T fool with the Solanaceae or Fabaceae/Leguminoseae, as those are SERIOUSLY risky, often with one part of a plant being used as food and another part being lethal, and so on. | There are also many hedgerow plants which are easily mistaken for herbs...as | nearly all plants have some effect on the human body, it's definately not | safe to pick those that 'resemble' safe ones. Many herbs' flavourings are indications of sub-clinical levels of toxins. Such as mustard :-) Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Wild wild rocket
Kay wrote:
:: In article , Phil :: L writes ::: Mike Lyle wrote: ::::: If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild ::::: rocket (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what ::::: they call Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the ::::: Internet seems to call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close ::::: relative won't do me any harm, will it? ::::: ::::: Mike. ::: ::: Lots of plants have very potent toxins in them...TBH, I wouldn't ::: take the risk unless you are *positive* that what you are getting ::: is the actual plant you are looking for - many 'similar' looking ::: plants are in fact deadly! :: :: Which are you thinking of? I'd always thought of the Cruciferae as :: one of the less hazardous families - though I'd not recommend the :: OP to experiment as I'm not 100% sure on this point. some types of mustard are toxic, at least the seeds and pods, although not deadly, a severe case of gastroenteritis will follow their consumption. http://www.aun.edu.eg/distance/pharm...s_brassica.htm There are also many hedgerow plants which are easily mistaken for herbs...as nearly all plants have some effect on the human body, it's definately not safe to pick those that 'resemble' safe ones. |
Wild wild rocket
In article , "Phil L" writes: | Kay wrote: | :: | :: Which are you thinking of? I'd always thought of the Cruciferae as | :: one of the less hazardous families - though I'd not recommend the | :: OP to experiment as I'm not 100% sure on this point. | | some types of mustard are toxic, at least the seeds and pods, although not | deadly, a severe case of gastroenteritis will follow their consumption. | http://www.aun.edu.eg/distance/pharm...s_brassica.htm Er, "severe"? Almost certainly mild. And you are likely to be warned by the very strong burning sensation, which is what mustard is all about! Furthermore, the damage isn't likely to be permanent. Unless you go bonkers, either with quantity or ignoring danger signs, this isn't likely to be a major risk. But care is indicated. DON'T fool with the Solanaceae or Fabaceae/Leguminoseae, as those are SERIOUSLY risky, often with one part of a plant being used as food and another part being lethal, and so on. | There are also many hedgerow plants which are easily mistaken for herbs...as | nearly all plants have some effect on the human body, it's definately not | safe to pick those that 'resemble' safe ones. Many herbs' flavourings are indications of sub-clinical levels of toxins. Such as mustard :-) Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Wild wild rocket
"Phil L" wrote in message ...
Mike Lyle wrote: :: If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket :: (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call :: Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to :: call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me :: any harm, will it? :: :: Mike. Lots of plants have very potent toxins in them...TBH, I wouldn't take the risk unless you are *positive* that what you are getting is the actual plant you are looking for - many 'similar' looking plants are in fact deadly! this link has many photographs of Sisymbrium officinale, whether this *is* wild rocket, I do not know! http://makeashorterlink.com/?A30D253E8 HTH Thanks; I've been there, though. And, no, I don't take these risks, being a fully paid-up member of the Amalgamated Union of Craven Cowards and Allied Trades. Can we narrow it down a bit? I'm confident of my ability to identify a cabbagey-mustardy crucifer in the field, but not necessarily certain of the species. Are there any of these which would be toxic in normal salad use? The HMSO _British Poisonous Plants_ is written from a vet point of view, and puts several crucifers in the frame; but they don't seem to have killed stock except when mature plants had been eaten in large quantities. (Pigs were killed by only two ounces or so of horseradish root: but just _smelling_ that much horseradish might kill me!) Even rape, whose seedlings we eat without ill effect as a salading, is only to be trusted for cattle under certain conditions. Mike. |
Wild wild rocket
Mike Lyle wrote:
:: "Phil L" wrote in message :: ... ::: Mike Lyle wrote: ::::: If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild ::::: rocket (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what ::::: they call Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the ::::: Internet seems to call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close ::::: relative won't do me any harm, will it? ::::: ::::: Mike. ::: ::: Lots of plants have very potent toxins in them...TBH, I wouldn't ::: take the risk unless you are *positive* that what you are getting ::: is the actual plant you are looking for - many 'similar' looking ::: plants are in fact deadly! this link has many photographs of ::: Sisymbrium officinale, whether this *is* wild rocket, I do not ::: know! ::: http://makeashorterlink.com/?A30D253E8 ::: ::: HTH :: :: Thanks; I've been there, though. And, no, I don't take these risks, :: being a fully paid-up member of the Amalgamated Union of Craven :: Cowards and Allied Trades. :: welcome to the club! :: Can we narrow it down a bit? I'm confident of my ability to :: identify a :: cabbagey-mustardy crucifer in the field, but not necessarily :: certain :: of the species. Are there any of these which would be toxic in :: normal :: salad use? :: :: The HMSO _British Poisonous Plants_ is written from a vet point of :: view, and puts several crucifers in the frame; but they don't seem :: to :: have killed stock except when mature plants had been eaten in large :: quantities. (Pigs were killed by only two ounces or so of :: horseradish :: root: but just _smelling_ that much horseradish might kill me!) :: Even :: rape, whose seedlings we eat without ill effect as a salading, is :: only :: to be trusted for cattle under certain conditions. This is the crux of the problem, it seems that most of these instances of toxicity are only recorded WRT cattle, horses etc etc- this doesn't always apply to humans though...certain plants which are highly toxic to one species are harmless and even beneficial to another....the short answer is 'I do not know', but safe to say that while none of them are likely to kill you, the worst you could expect is stomach ache if you do happen upon 'a bad one' - personally, I wouldn't take a risk, but it's up to you. |
Wild wild rocket
In article , "Phil L" writes: | | This is the crux of the problem, it seems that most of these instances of | toxicity are only recorded WRT cattle, horses etc etc- this doesn't always | apply to humans though...certain plants which are highly toxic to one | species are harmless and even beneficial to another....the short answer is | 'I do not know', but safe to say that while none of them are likely to kill | you, the worst you could expect is stomach ache if you do happen upon 'a bad | one' - personally, I wouldn't take a risk, but it's up to you. That is why I am perfectly happy to try wild Cruciferae, but not Solanaceae or (for that matter) Pot Noodles. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Wild wild rocket
.... If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any harm, will it? Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called "wild rocket" in the first place?? |
Wild wild rocket
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 22:59:56 +0100, "datsy"
wrote: ... If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any harm, will it? Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called "wild rocket" in the first place?? Perhaps because that's it's common name? http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/us/.../705/1?SA=1113 and http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katz...?Eruc_sat.html -- Martin |
Wild wild rocket
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Wild wild rocket
In message , datsy
writes ... If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any harm, will it? Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called "wild rocket" in the first place?? According to the Organic Gardening Catalogue, their wild rocket is Diplotaxis tenuifolia, not Sisymbrium officinale (but it's also known as Sisymbrium tenuifolium, according to www.scs.leeds.ac.uk - just Google "diplotaxis"). It's a perennial and "doubtfully native" in Britain, rated a noxious/invasive weed in various parts of Australia. I've had it in my garden for about 3 years. There's also another wild rocket, Diplotaxis erucoides; this one is an annual and (according to the same source) a serious weed in southern Europe. I believe the normal cultivated annual or "salad" rockets are Erucas - allegedly introduced to Britain by the Romans. So perhaps the annual wild rocket's name means "not actually a rocket but rather like one". -- Max Wright www.wys-systems.demon.co.uk/plotcrop |
Wild wild rocket
In article , Max Wright
writes According to the Organic Gardening Catalogue, their wild rocket is Diplotaxis tenuifolia, not Sisymbrium officinale (but it's also known as Sisymbrium tenuifolium, according to www.scs.leeds.ac.uk - just Google "diplotaxis"). It's a perennial and "doubtfully native" in Britain, rated a noxious/invasive weed in various parts of Australia. I've had it in my garden for about 3 years. There's also another wild rocket, Diplotaxis erucoides; this one is an annual and (according to the same source) a serious weed in southern Europe. I believe the normal cultivated annual or "salad" rockets are Erucas - allegedly introduced to Britain by the Romans. So perhaps the annual wild rocket's name means "not actually a rocket but rather like one". I suspect it's just to sound trendy, like 'wild mushrooms' or 'wild rice' -- Kay "Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river" |
Wild wild rocket
I suspect it's just to sound trendy, like 'wild mushrooms' or 'wild rice' -- "Wild mushrooms" I agree is mainly trendy, not exactly wild ones when they are served up in the restaurant! "Wild rice", however, I think is wild - it's not the stuff that is grown in paddy fields but is a grass-type plant growing in lakes in N. America. |
Wild wild rocket
"datsy" wrote in message ...
... If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any harm, will it? Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called "wild rocket" in the first place?? First, maybe they're a bunch of lying *******s. Second, I fancy it's come to us this way through Italian usage (could be wrong here, and have only a tiny Italian dictionary) and got a bit mangled en route. Though the Collins Field Guide uses "Hedge mustard" for what the Internet calls "wild rocket", the botanical name also seems, from the 'net at any rate, to apply to cultivated varieties sold as "rocket". I assume that by "wild" the sellers mean the type, as distinct from cultivars: Italians are very good on wild vegetables. Mike. |
Wild wild rocket
I suspect it's just to sound trendy, like 'wild mushrooms' or 'wild rice' -- "Wild mushrooms" I agree is mainly trendy, not exactly wild ones when they are served up in the restaurant! "Wild rice", however, I think is wild - it's not the stuff that is grown in paddy fields but is a grass-type plant growing in lakes in N. America. |
Wild wild rocket
Max Wright wrote in message ...
In message , datsy writes ... If I get it wrong when using my field guide to identify wild rocket (actually, in my Collins FG, 'Hedge mustard' is what they call Sisymbrium officinale, which in turn is what the Internet seems to call 'wild rocket'), eating the wrong close relative won't do me any harm, will it? Just as a matter of interest, why is "wild rocket" in the supermarket called "wild rocket" in the first place?? According to the Organic Gardening Catalogue, their wild rocket is Diplotaxis tenuifolia, not Sisymbrium officinale (but it's also known as Sisymbrium tenuifolium, according to www.scs.leeds.ac.uk - just Google "diplotaxis"). It's a perennial and "doubtfully native" in Britain, rated a noxious/invasive weed in various parts of Australia. I've had it in my garden for about 3 years. There's also another wild rocket, Diplotaxis erucoides; this one is an annual and (according to the same source) a serious weed in southern Europe. I believe the normal cultivated annual or "salad" rockets are Erucas - allegedly introduced to Britain by the Romans. So perhaps the annual wild rocket's name means "not actually a rocket but rather like one". Thanks for that. Collins lists D. tenuifolia as "Perennial wall rocket". Another species, D. muralis or Annual wall rocket appears in the same paragraph. No sign of D. erucoides under that name. Back to the Internet! MIke. |
Wild wild rocket
In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote: Thanks for that. Collins lists D. tenuifolia as "Perennial wall rocket". Another species, D. muralis or Annual wall rocket appears in the same paragraph. No sign of D. erucoides under that name. Back to the Internet! Having checked up in Culpeper, CTW, the OED etc., the situation is as follows: The rocket that supermarkets sell has been called rocket or garden rocket (I was wrong about sweet rocket), and is Eruca sativa (Brassica eruca etc.) We all agreed on the last. The term "rocket" has been applied, with or without qualifications, to at least 6 genera of brassicas, including all those mentioned, plus Hesperis and Barbarea. Like most common names, it is "loose". Interestingly, "blue rocket" has been applied to aconite, delphinium and bluebell (two of which are seriously poisonous), and there are several other non-brassicas called rockets. The term "wild rocket" has been applied to a fair number of them, including at least Sisymbrium officinale, but I believe that the supermarkets have invented it as a marketing term for another variety of Eruca sativa. So there is no reasonable sense in which it is a common name for what the supermarkets are selling, unless I am wrong and they really ARE selling Sisymbrium officinale - and what I saw sold as wild rocket was definitely Eruca sativa ... Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Wild wild rocket
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Wild wild rocket
Nick Maclaren wrote or quoted:
Having checked up in Culpeper, CTW, the OED etc., the situation is as follows: The rocket that supermarkets sell has been called rocket or garden rocket (I was wrong about sweet rocket), and is Eruca sativa (Brassica eruca etc.) We all agreed on the last. [...] Interestingly, "blue rocket" has been applied to aconite, delphinium and bluebell (two of which are seriously poisonous), and there are several other non-brassicas called rockets. The term "wild rocket" has been applied to a fair number of them, including at least Sisymbrium officinale, but I believe that the supermarkets have invented it as a marketing term for another variety of Eruca sativa. So there is no reasonable sense in which it is a common name for what the supermarkets are selling, unless I am wrong and they really ARE selling Sisymbrium officinale - and what I saw sold as wild rocket was definitely Eruca sativa ... The identification problem is compounded by the existence of variants of Eruca sativa with Sisymbrium officinale-like forked leaves, and the fact that the supermarkets never include any flowers or buds (:) - but - AFAICT - at least some supermarkets claiming to be selling wild rocket are indeed selling Sisymbrium officinale. Regarding "wild" wild rockets - there are a few of those in hedgerows around here. I've tried some of them, and they taste quite different from the wild rocket that I grow in my garden (though the yellow flowers look the same). They are not as nice tasting - and are stronger. I keep meaning to dig some up and take them home, nontheless... -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply. |
Wild wild rocket
Nick Maclaren wrote or quoted:
Having checked up in Culpeper, CTW, the OED etc., the situation is as follows: The rocket that supermarkets sell has been called rocket or garden rocket (I was wrong about sweet rocket), and is Eruca sativa (Brassica eruca etc.) We all agreed on the last. [...] Interestingly, "blue rocket" has been applied to aconite, delphinium and bluebell (two of which are seriously poisonous), and there are several other non-brassicas called rockets. The term "wild rocket" has been applied to a fair number of them, including at least Sisymbrium officinale, but I believe that the supermarkets have invented it as a marketing term for another variety of Eruca sativa. So there is no reasonable sense in which it is a common name for what the supermarkets are selling, unless I am wrong and they really ARE selling Sisymbrium officinale - and what I saw sold as wild rocket was definitely Eruca sativa ... The identification problem is compounded by the existence of variants of Eruca sativa with Sisymbrium officinale-like forked leaves, and the fact that the supermarkets never include any flowers or buds (:) - but - AFAICT - at least some supermarkets claiming to be selling wild rocket are indeed selling Sisymbrium officinale. Regarding "wild" wild rockets - there are a few of those in hedgerows around here. I've tried some of them, and they taste quite different from the wild rocket that I grow in my garden (though the yellow flowers look the same). They are not as nice tasting - and are stronger. I keep meaning to dig some up and take them home, nontheless... -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply. |
Wild wild rocket
In article , Tim Tyler wrote:
The identification problem is compounded by the existence of variants of Eruca sativa with Sisymbrium officinale-like forked leaves, and the fact that the supermarkets never include any flowers or buds (:) - but - AFAICT - at least some supermarkets claiming to be selling wild rocket are indeed selling Sisymbrium officinale. Yes, the one I grow is like that. Your second comment is most interesting - THOSE supermarkets are at least using a reasonable name for the plant. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Wild wild rocket
In article , Tim Tyler wrote:
The identification problem is compounded by the existence of variants of Eruca sativa with Sisymbrium officinale-like forked leaves, and the fact that the supermarkets never include any flowers or buds (:) - but - AFAICT - at least some supermarkets claiming to be selling wild rocket are indeed selling Sisymbrium officinale. Yes, the one I grow is like that. Your second comment is most interesting - THOSE supermarkets are at least using a reasonable name for the plant. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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