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Ivy covered tree
I have a tree badly covered with ivy. Is the correct procedure to sever the
ivy, pull it off the tree and then dig out the ivy roots. -- Art Garden Web http://www.gardenweb.com My Garden Web exchange page http://www.gardenweb.com/members/exch/art1952 |
Ivy covered tree
"Carol Russell" wrote in message
... I have a tree badly covered with ivy. Is the correct procedure to sever the ivy, pull it off the tree and then dig out the ivy roots. You might find it easier to do just the first two, and then just cut off new growth as it reoccurs. Ivy can be v difficult to dig out and you may well damage the tree roots. I killed some ivy this year(at the base of a brick wall) by doing this after I found it too difficult to get all the roots out and its worked, I didnt get much regrowth and removing that seems to have done the trick. I am still working on some other ivy that was covering an area about 1m by 2m, after cutting it to ground level I have covered it with black polythene (Its in an unconspicuous area of my garden!) and am waiting until spring before trying to get the roots out. -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
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"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message ... "Carol wrote in message I have a tree badly covered with ivy. Is the correct procedure to sever the ivy, pull it off the tree and then dig out the ivy roots. Do you need to? Ivy is the winter home for some of our small birds especially Wrens. I always smile at that argument. :-) The amount of habitat damage that an individual can do is miniscule compared to the national ivy population. You might just as well say "Don't cut your grass. You are damaging essential habitat for larks, linnets and corncrakes. Don't kill off those nettles. They are an essential food source for caterpillars. Don't paint your eaves woodwork. It will make a wonderful lichen and fungus habitat." There must be acres of uninhabited ivy just waiting for prospective wrens to occupy. -- ned |
Ivy covered tree
"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message ... "ned" wrote in message snip There must be acres of uninhabited ivy just waiting for prospective wrens to occupy. There might be where you live but there ain't round here. Very true. My views are coloured by an ivy and nettle infested rural location. So, in future I'll smile privately. :-)) -- ned |
Ivy covered tree
In article , ned
writes Perhaps saving the ivy is just a way of salving the guilty gardening conscience. :-) This is a personal opinion, but it is also expressed by arborculturists and forestry people who know a good deal more about trees than I. When ivy is seen growing up a tree, it is often assumed by gardeners to be 'attacking' or setting about to harm the tree and finally to kill it. In some cases this may be true, but it is more often the case that the tree is already sick or in trouble of some kind and the ivy is growing up it in preparation to act in its natural role of scavenging. As the ivy develops, the tree deteriorates and finally dies, giving every impression that the ivy killed it. If left to do so, the ivy will remain on the tree until it is all gone, stump, roots and all. We often have questions about stump removal in this group and that is nature's way of doing it - if given the time. In some cases, when ivy is seen to be starting to grow up a tree, that can be taken by gardeners as an early warning that the tree needs more attention than just removing the ivy. I saved a very old Cox's apple like that. It had become smothered in ivy and had given up fruiting. We had replaced it with a young Sunset because we thought it to be lost. I took all the ivy off the Cox's and removed a lot of old and dead branches etc. The tree is now back to full health and vigour and free of ivy. It and the Sunset apple seem to vie with each other each year now to see which can produce the better crop. -- Alan & Joan Gould, North Lincs. |
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In article , ned
writes Indeed. Every weed is simply a natural plant which the 'arrogant' gardener decides is spoiling the look of his/her grand plan. Er . . not entirely!! The thing about 'weeds' is that they are thugs. They multiply and multiply and don't give the more 'delicate' plants a chance. I know the brutal fact of nature is survival of the fittest and I know dandelions are pretty but I do want to see a bit of variety in my garden so I have a bit of a tussle with mother nature in the bit of space that 'belongs' to me :)))))))))) -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com |
Ivy covered tree
On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:29:46 +0100, "ned" wrote:
Indeed. Every weed is simply a natural plant which the 'arrogant' gardener decides is spoiling the look of his/her grand plan. That's no criticism at all. You are beating a straw man you have erected. Gardens are by ~definition~ artificial assemblages in which certain plants are wanted and all others unwanted. Moreover, your definition of weed is far too broad. Most common weeds (in common parlance) are plants found natively in sites where the earth is continually disturbed -- a slow landslip is one such site. That's why weeds do so well in cultivated ground. Take humanity out of the picture, stop cultivating, and most of these weeds would become rather rare plants because there are so few suitable natural sites for them. Moreover, such weeds (and most common weeds are of this class) actually occur unnaturally, having been spread by man himself via cultivation, both horticultural and agricultural. Any gardener worth their salt knows perfectly well the difference between a weed and a volunteer seedling (as likely as not of an exotic species anyway) that has placed itself inesthetically. You further betray your ignorance by failing to remark on the frequency with which gardeners write about volunteer seedlings turning out to be perfectly placed, even if not according to plan. And to think that gardeners have some Grand Plan or Scheme? Ludicrous: most gardens are like my own, developed piecemeal over many years with the guiding prinicple being "I wonder what will grow there?" Finally, you try to tar gardeners as "arrogant". Quite the contrary. Most gardeners are humble: they know they can't do a lot about climate and soil, and that the plants have to thrive on their own. You can't make a plant thrive if it doesn't want to. All you can do is offer encouragement and good conditions and then hope for the best. Oh, well, I guess it doesn't hurt to set up a straw man and give it a few whacks now and then. Heave to, my good man! -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada |
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Ivy covered tree
In article , Steve
Harris writes In article , (Jane Ransom) wrote: The thing about 'weeds' is that they are thugs. They multiply and multiply and don't give the more 'delicate' plants a chance. So what's the difference between weeds and good "ground cover"? I suppose ground cover is just that - something that spreads from a central 'root' as it were. It's easy to chop off round the edges to stop it encroaching. Weeds (in the dandelion, dock, thistle etc category) spread seeds everywhere and do not stay in just one central spot and consequently are difficult to control. -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com |
Ivy covered tree
In article , Carol Russell Russells@
queenborough42.freeserve.co.uk writes I have a tree badly covered with ivy. Is the correct procedure to sever the ivy, pull it off the tree and then dig out the ivy roots. Carol you have seen all the 'Tree Huggers' replies and what should and should not be done. Well, as someone else has pointed out, it is 'your' garden for a few years for you to do what you wish, so do what 'you' want to do. We had a very old Apple Tree in our last garden and just like your tree it had a lot of Ivy growing up it. I cut the Ivy stem and kept the tree clear. The Earth is reputed to be 36 Thousand Million Years old. How long has 'Man' been on it? Well it has been said that if the age of the Earth is related to a 24 hour clock, we have been on this Earth since 23.59.30. It doesn't matter what you as 'an individual' do, Nature will 'correct' it after you have gone:-(( Look at the Twyford Gap on the M3 near Winchester, colouring over all ready :-)) Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. |
Ivy covered tree
"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in message ... snip Moreover, such weeds (and most common weeds are of this class) actually occur unnaturally, having been spread by man himself via cultivation, both horticultural and agricultural. Since when are people not 'natural'? -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
Ivy covered tree
"Mike" wrote in message ... In article , Carol Russell Russells@ queenborough42.freeserve.co.uk writes I have a tree badly covered with ivy. Is the correct procedure to sever the ivy, pull it off the tree and then dig out the ivy roots. Carol you have seen all the 'Tree Huggers' replies and what should and should not be done. Well, as someone else has pointed out, it is 'your' garden for a few years for you to do what you wish, so do what 'you' want to do. We had a very old Apple Tree in our last garden and just like your tree it had a lot of Ivy growing up it. I cut the Ivy stem and kept the tree clear. The Earth is reputed to be 36 Thousand Million Years old. How long has 'Man' been on it? Well it has been said that if the age of the Earth is related to a 24 hour clock, we have been on this Earth since 23.59.30. It doesn't matter what you as 'an individual' do, Nature will 'correct' it after you have gone:-(( Look at the Twyford Gap on the M3 near Winchester, colouring over all ready :-)) :-)) Nice summation Mike. As you see Carol, there are few right or wrong answers to be had but, lots of shades of grey. Every argument will have its protagonists. And sometimes, even highly respected scientific minds will disagree. No matter what you do, you won't please everyone. -- ned |
Ivy covered tree
"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:29:46 +0100, "ned" wrote: Indeed. Every weed is simply a natural plant which the 'arrogant' gardener decides is spoiling the look of his/her grand plan. big snip Finally, you try to tar gardeners as "arrogant". ......Errr, not quite. The use of the adjective "arrogant" implies a 'class' of gardeners - not 'all' gardeners. You surely don't think I would class myself as an arrogant gardener, do you? :-)) I'm the one who nurtures all the exotics which spring up under the bird seed feeder. :-)) -- ned |
Ivy covered tree
"Alan Gould" wrote in message ... In article , ned writes Perhaps saving the ivy is just a way of salving the guilty gardening conscience. :-) This is a personal opinion, but it is also expressed by arborculturists and forestry people who know a good deal more about trees than I. When ivy is seen growing up a tree, it is often assumed by gardeners to be 'attacking' or setting about to harm the tree and finally to kill it. In some cases this may be true, but it is more often the case that the tree is already sick or in trouble of some kind and the ivy is growing up it in preparation to act in its natural role of scavenging. I have yet to come across an ivy seedling with the intelligence to select an ailing tree. They are all opportunists who will clamber up anything and everything which is adjacent. Your implication is that every tree is, by definition, sick or ailing. I hope this is not so. And much as I defend the tree, I can't see ivy as a natural scavenger. The only thing that comes naturally to it , is procreating. I may be wrong (Good heavens, surely not) but I think ivy has to climb to flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing any flowers or fruit at ground level. -- ned |
Ivy covered tree
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message ... "Rodger Whitlock" wrote in message ... snip Moreover, such weeds (and most common weeds are of this class) actually occur unnaturally, having been spread by man himself via cultivation, both horticultural and agricultural. Since when are people not 'natural'? I can think of many who aren't!(:-) Alan -- Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)co(dot)uk -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
Ivy covered tree
"ned" wrote in message ... "Mike" wrote in message ... In article , Carol Russell Russells@ queenborough42.freeserve.co.uk writes I have a tree badly covered with ivy. Is the correct procedure to sever the ivy, pull it off the tree and then dig out the ivy roots. Carol you have seen all the 'Tree Huggers' replies and what should and should not be done. Well, as someone else has pointed out, it is 'your' garden for a few years for you to do what you wish, so do what 'you' want to do. We had a very old Apple Tree in our last garden and just like your tree it had a lot of Ivy growing up it. I cut the Ivy stem and kept the tree clear. The Earth is reputed to be 36 Thousand Million Years old. How long has 'Man' been on it? Well it has been said that if the age of the Earth is related to a 24 hour clock, we have been on this Earth since 23.59.30. It doesn't matter what you as 'an individual' do, Nature will 'correct' it after you have gone:-(( Look at the Twyford Gap on the M3 near Winchester, colouring over all ready :-)) :-)) Nice summation Mike. As you see Carol, there are few right or wrong answers to be had but, lots of shades of grey. Every argument will have its protagonists. And sometimes, even highly respected scientific minds will disagree. No matter what you do, you won't please everyone. -- ned Thank you all. -- Art Garden Web http://www.gardenweb.com My Garden Web exchange page http://www.gardenweb.com/members/exch/art1952 |
Ivy covered tree
In article , ned
writes I think ivy has to climb to flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing any flowers or fruit at ground level. We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas. It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing. -- Alan & Joan Gould, North Lincs. |
Ivy covered tree
"Alan Gould" wrote in message ... In article , ned writes I think ivy has to climb to flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing any flowers or fruit at ground level. We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas. It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing. ......and is a bugger to remove :-) I wonder if I'll be destroying the planet by removing it (in progress via black plastic over the winter*) or if I then plant something else there I wont be destroying the planet. Or will I only be destroying the planet if I choose what to plant therein its place? Silly tree huggers. -- Tumbleweed * Mind you, that is providing shelter to slugs, snails, frogs, and various other animal life. Probably more than was provided by the ivy. What a dilemma if I remove it. Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
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On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:58:18 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: Since when are people not 'natural'? Since five minutes ago. I decided. If anybody objects, just tell them the internet said so. QED -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada |
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Xref: 127.0.0.1 uk.rec.gardening:161174
In article , (Rodger Whitlock) writes: | On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:58:18 +0100, "Tumbleweed" | wrote: | | Since when are people not 'natural'? | | Since five minutes ago. I decided. If anybody objects, just tell | them the internet said so. | | QED Now, now, please don't be unnatural about this. Regards, Nick Maclaren, University of Cambridge Computing Service, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email: Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679 |
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"cormaic" wrote in message
... 'Twas Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:10:30 +0100, when Mike enriched all our lives with these worthy thoughts: The Earth is reputed to be 36 Thousand Million Years old. No - it's approximately 3.6 billion years old which is 3 thousand 600 million not 36 thousand million - you are out by an order of magnitude. ....and you are out by about 1 billion years! More like 4.3-4.5 billion. -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
Ivy covered tree
In article , Tumbleweed fromnews@myso
ckstumbleweed.freeserve.co.uk writes .....and is a bugger to remove :-) I wonder if I'll be destroying the planet by removing it (in progress via black plastic over the winter*) or if I then plant something else there I wont be destroying the planet. Or will I only be destroying the planet if I choose what to plant therein its place? Silly tree huggers. If you think that the ivy is presenting any danger to your trees, or to your overall gardening plan, then for you it is a weed and you should remove it. In our case ground cover ivy is growing in a copse of healthy trees where it is doing no harm, so we have no reason to disturb it - unless of course it becomes a tree-hugger, then we act. * Mind you, that is providing shelter to slugs, snails, frogs, and various other animal life. Probably more than was provided by the ivy. What a dilemma if I remove it. Your choice entirely. Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) Now that does sound a planet unfriendly act! Do you live in a clean air zone? :-) -- Alan & Joan Gould, North Lincs. |
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In article , Rodger Whitlock
writes On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:58:18 +0100, "Tumbleweed" wrote: Since when are people not 'natural'? Since five minutes ago. I decided. If anybody objects, just tell them the internet said so. QED Don't believe everything you read on the internet Roger! -- Alan Gould |
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"Alan Gould" wrote in message ... snip Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) Now that does sound a planet unfriendly act! Do you live in a clean air zone? :-) Only when my socks are still on! VBG -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
Ivy covered tree
"Alan Gould" wrote in message ... In article , ned writes I think ivy has to climb to flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing any flowers or fruit at ground level. We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas. It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing. Well, there y'go. I bow to your experience. :-) Question. If it can do that, lying on its back, without having to get out of its bed, why would it want to climb? Ivy with a sense of adventure? Ivy with inquisitiveness? Thinking ivy? Oh its definitely got to be kept under control now. :-)) -- ned |
Ivy covered tree
The message
from Alan Gould contains these words: When ivy is seen growing up a tree, it is often assumed by gardeners to be 'attacking' or setting about to harm the tree and finally to kill it. In some cases this may be true, Rubbish. but it is more often the case that the tree is already sick or in trouble of some kind and the ivy is growing up it in preparation to act in its natural role of scavenging. This is nonsense. Ivy is not a parasitic plant, and does not obtain its food or water from trees, any more than it does from walls; it gets those through its own below-ground root system. If you sever climbing ivy stems at the base of a tree trunk, the entire section of ivy *above* the cut will die; proving that the living tree is not its means of sustenance. It is not a "scavenger". As the ivy develops, the tree deteriorates and finally dies, giving every impression that the ivy killed it. If left to do so, the ivy will remain on the tree until it is all gone, stump, roots and all. We often have questions about stump removal in this group and that is nature's way of doing it - if given the time. You seem to be suggesting that ivy somehow digests dead trees, stumps and roots, which is not true. Given time, all dead trees and their stumps/roots will eventually rot, fall, and be digested by microorganisms; that has nothing to do with ivy being present. Janet. |
Ivy covered tree
The message
from Alan Gould contains these words: In article , ned writes I think ivy has to climb to flower. A pollination requirement perhaps. I cannot recall seeing any flowers or fruit at ground level. We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas. It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing. Very surprising; I have never seen that either. Ivy is dimorphic.It's usually only the juvenile stage (3 or 5 lobed leaves, adventitious roots)which grows as ground cover in shaded areas. The adult stage,(distinguishable by the leaf shape changing from lobed to ovate, and shrubbier, non-climbing branches) that produces flowers and fruit, requires much more light, which is why it usually occurs at the tops of walls, upper branches of trees etc. Janet. |
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"Sue" wrote in message ... I have a vague idea I saw it suggested once that you can take a cutting from the adult flowering part and grow this into a shrubby fruiting plant that doesn't put out climbing shoots. Is that correct, and if so could I grow a few like this to add in an existing hedge? I'd like to include some ivy somewhere for its food/shelter value and this seems an ideal solution. Sue yes you can, although the cuttings are generally slower than normal ivy cuttings they are quite straight forward. you can produce nice variegated shrubby ivies in the same way. -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs) |
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There seems to be much confusion about ivy. I'm not sure that I want to go
into all the details and explain it all to those who don't understand, but I think it's enough to point out that to be a scavenger you have to be able to recognise that something's dead, and that it can therefore be 'scavenged'. Plants (including ivy) are unable to make this distinction. Put simply, plants don't 'think' in the way we recognise that animals can. Dave. Dave. |
Ivy covered tree
In article , DaveDay34
writes There seems to be much confusion about ivy. I'm not sure that I want to go into all the details and explain it all to those who don't understand, but I think it's enough to point out that to be a scavenger you have to be able to recognise that something's dead, and that it can therefore be 'scavenged'. Plants (including ivy) are unable to make this distinction. Put simply, plants don't 'think' in the way we recognise that animals can. Some years ago urg had a long and contentious, though mostly good natured, discussion in a thread called 'A philosophical approach'. That discussion centred mostly on how plants were believed to act and react. It revealed some deep seated unease among urg contributors about the matter. It emerged that little proper research has been done in the area, though there is quite a lot of literature available to 'prove' all viewpoints held. I would appreciate details which show that plants cannot distinguish between something living and dead though, that is a new theory to me. I agree that plants don't think. That is because they do not have a brain. They also don't see or hear because they don't have eyes or ears etc. etc. As living beings though, they carry out all the functions of animals (including humans) other than moving about, but they do it by different means. For example, though plants do not see with eyes, they are able to detect direction of light, and they are able to work out how to react to light. They have their own ways, different from animals, of eating, drinking, creating a habitat, procreating, protecting themselves and their species, adapting to their environments and evolving. All that requires some very sophisticated form of intelligence, equivalent to though different from that used by animals. Plants are entirely independent of animals for their survival, they were around on this planet long before animals developed. Animals however, including humans, are totally dependent upon plants directly or indirectly for their food and for almost all other things they do. In a world of food shortage, a better understanding of plants and how they operate could be of great benefit to us all. -- Alan Gould |
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I have a vague idea I saw it suggested once that you can take a cutting from the adult flowering part and grow this into a shrubby fruiting plant that doesn't put out climbing shoots. Is that correct, and if so could I grow a few like this to add in an existing hedge? I'd like to include some ivy somewhere for its food/shelter value and this seems an ideal solution. Sue Yes you can grow the fruiting part of the ivy (I call it tree ivy, I don't know if this is correct). I have one, the blackbirds love it but so do wasps and flies in late summer. I think I have seen it several times in the background when gardening progs visit gardens. Beware though it does sometimes send out juvenile growth from the base. |
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On the subject of harming the natural world i was somewhat suprised when I
received my first "Chilterns seed catalogue and saw that some of the seeds are collected from the wild. -- Art Garden Web http://www.gardenweb.com My Garden Web exchange page http://www.gardenweb.com/members/exch/art1952 |
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In article , Alan Gould
writes I agree that plants don't think. That is because they do not have a brain. They also don't see or hear because they don't have eyes or ears etc. etc. Don't have ears? I have just been reading an article where music was played to Tomato Plants and they cropped better!! OK so I have ears and I work better with the right music, but what about plants? Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- O ruddier than the cherry, O sweeter than the berry, O nymph more bright, than moonshine night, like kidlings blithe and merry. John Gay 1685 - 1732 |
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Some of what you say is true, but see interspersed comments
viewpoints held. I would appreciate details which show that plants cannot distinguish between something living and dead though, that is a new theory to me. Do you also need evidence to show that a stone or any other non living object cannot distinguish between something living and dead . though plants do not see with eyes, they are able to detect direction of light, and they are able to work out how to react to light. Are photo sensetive chemicals sentient because they react to light? Do they work out how to react? Does water work out to flow downhill? Plants are entirely independent of animals for their survival, they were around on this planet long before animals developed. Plants are almost entirely dependent on animals for the oxygen-carbon cycle. Art |
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In article , Mike
writes I agree that plants don't think. That is because they do not have a brain. They also don't see or hear because they don't have eyes or ears etc. etc. Don't have ears? I have just been reading an article where music was played to Tomato Plants and they cropped better!! OK so I have ears and I work better with the right music, but what about plants? They have an ability to receive and respond to sound, but not by means of ears as animals have. -- Alan Gould |
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In article , Carol Russell Russells@q
ueenborough42.freeserve.co.uk writes Some of what you say is true, but see interspersed comments viewpoints held. I would appreciate details which show that plants cannot distinguish between something living and dead though, that is a new theory to me. Do you also need evidence to show that a stone or any other non living object cannot distinguish between something living and dead . No, stones are inanimate objects, they cannot distinguish anything. though plants do not see with eyes, they are able to detect direction of light, and they are able to work out how to react to light. Are photo sensetive chemicals sentient because they react to light? Do they work out how to react? They work by photo-chemical reaction. Does water work out to flow downhill? Gravitational force does that. Plants are entirely independent of animals for their survival, they were around on this planet long before animals developed. Plants are almost entirely dependent on animals for the oxygen-carbon cycle. Please explain that. Plants thrived quite well before animals existed. -- Alan Gould |
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"Alan Gould" wrote in message ... In article , Carol Russell Russells@q ueenborough42.freeserve.co.uk writes snip Plants are entirely independent of animals for their survival, they were around on this planet long before animals developed. Plants are almost entirely dependent on animals for the oxygen-carbon cycle. Please explain that. Plants thrived quite well before animals existed. I don't think that many of today's plant species were around before animals. Horsetails (no pun intended) maybe. But todays plants have developed and are acclimatised to the animal world. Many rely on their seeds passing through animal gut in order to germinate. Many have developed burrs to aid their animal transportation to new parts. Many rely on specific insects and birds to complete their pollination process. Nearly all thrive on animal waste products - solid and gaseous. It is an interdependent homogenous world that we live in. -- ned |
Ivy covered tree
The message
from Alan Gould contains these words: In article , Janet Baraclough writes We have lots of ivy growing as ground cover, mostly in shaded areas. It flowers and seeds there in the same way as when it is climbing. Very surprising; I have never seen that either. Ivy is dimorphic.It's usually only the juvenile stage (3 or 5 lobed leaves, adventitious roots)which grows as ground cover in shaded areas. The adult stage,(distinguishable by the leaf shape changing from lobed to ovate, and shrubbier, non-climbing branches) that produces flowers and fruit, requires much more light, which is why it usually occurs at the tops of walls, upper branches of trees etc. These are in semi-light amongst a group of well developed and very tall blackthorns. When I cleared away some of the blackthorns, the ivy receded and gave way to a variety of other self-set plants, but it remains as vigorous as ever under the blackthorns. The surprising thing was that your ivy is producing flowers and seeds at ground-cover level and in shade. Janet. |
Ivy covered tree
The message
from Alan Gould contains these words: In article , Janet Baraclough writes This is nonsense. Ivy is not a parasitic plant, and does not obtain its food or water from trees, any more than it does from walls; it gets those through its own below-ground root system. If you sever climbing ivy stems at the base of a tree trunk, the entire section of ivy *above* the cut will die; proving that the living tree is not its means of sustenance. It is not a "scavenger". You are confusing the definitions of parasite and scavenger. Not at all. A parasite derives its subsistence from another living organism and a scavenger from a dead one. I was pointing out the reasons why your two claims, first that ivy attacks living trees, sets about to harm and kill them, and second that it scavenges their dead remains, are both wrong. Note to the confused; that's "wrong" as in "false, inaccurate, incorrect." Janet. |
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