espalier training with tip bearing apple tree?
 

I have two young apple trees ,one is sunset which is a spur bearer i have
planted this against a fence to train as espalier i would also like to do
the same with apple discovery which is tip bearing.I have found out recently
that tip bearers are not good for training as espaliers.
Has anyone trained one & had success or are you best to plant tip bearers as
standards?
They are for a fence in the vegetable garden or can they be trained with
another method?

--
Thanks Keith,England,UK.

"keith ;-)" wrote in message
...
I have two young apple trees ,one is sunset which is a spur bearer i have
planted this against a fence to train as espalier i would also like to do
the same with apple discovery which is tip bearing.I have found out
recently
that tip bearers are not good for training as espaliers.
Has anyone trained one & had success or are you best to plant tip bearers
as
standards?
They are for a fence in the vegetable garden or can they be trained with
another method?


I have a Discovery on M111 that I trained as a not-very-brilliant espalier.
The shoots are very stout and stiff compared with many other apple
varieties- so it's more difficult, though still possible, to persuade it
into a restricted form such as an espalier. I haven't always given it the
attention that it deserves when training it, which has exacerbated its
reluctance to be properly trained.

Tip-bearing as such is not a major problem. The yield would be fine if it
weren't for the wasps, who are peculiarly partial to a Discovery. :-(

http://www.btinternet.com/~treesandfruit/appl.htm

--
Anton

Thanks Anton! Interesting website is it your own?
So with your experience growing discovery as a espalier would you say its
worth it.
I had both trees planted as standards only last autumn,but have had a change
of mind and want to grow them on a fence to save space.That's why I have a
MM106 discovery, it wasn't purchased in the first place to espalier
train.Otherwise I would have got whips & trained them from fresh.
I think I will have to give it a try as I have already got the secretors out
and butchered it!I should be able to get two tiers & then leave a leader to
further train.
Or would you be brutal & cut to two outward facing buds at 18 inch above
ground and start again!
I am not to bothered about them being perfect espaliers as long as they
resemble them,if you know what I mean.
I think it is that starting over again and waiting for it to bear fruit that
puts me off the 18 inch above ground scenario & the Wife seeing what I would
have done to the £ 17.50 tree we got last year !!!

--
Thanks Keith,England,UK.
"anton" wrote in message
...

"keith ;-)" wrote in message
...
I have two young apple trees ,one is sunset which is a spur bearer i
have
planted this against a fence to train as espalier i would also like to
do
the same with apple discovery which is tip bearing.I have found out
recently
that tip bearers are not good for training as espaliers.
Has anyone trained one & had success or are you best to plant tip
bearers
as
standards?
They are for a fence in the vegetable garden or can they be trained
with
another method?


I have a Discovery on M111 that I trained as a not-very-brilliant
espalier.
The shoots are very stout and stiff compared with many other apple
varieties- so it's more difficult, though still possible, to persuade it
into a restricted form such as an espalier. I haven't always given it the
attention that it deserves when training it, which has exacerbated its
reluctance to be properly trained.

Tip-bearing as such is not a major problem. The yield would be fine if it
weren't for the wasps, who are peculiarly partial to a Discovery. :-(

http://www.btinternet.com/~treesandfruit/appl.htm

--
Anton

anton muttered:


"keith ;-)" wrote in message
...
I have two young apple trees ,one is sunset which is a spur bearer i have
planted this against a fence to train as espalier i would also like to do
the same with apple discovery which is tip bearing.I have found out
recently
that tip bearers are not good for training as espaliers.
Has anyone trained one & had success or are you best to plant tip bearers
as
standards?
They are for a fence in the vegetable garden or can they be trained with
another method?


I have a Discovery on M111 that I trained as a not-very-brilliant espalier.
The shoots are very stout and stiff compared with many other apple
varieties- so it's more difficult, though still possible, to persuade it
into a restricted form such as an espalier. I haven't always given it the
attention that it deserves when training it, which has exacerbated its
reluctance to be properly trained.

Tip-bearing as such is not a major problem. The yield would be fine if it
weren't for the wasps, who are peculiarly partial to a Discovery. :-(

http://www.btinternet.com/~treesandfruit/appl.htm


I want to do espaliered pears around our new vegetable plot - a 3-sided
boundary measuring @ 12 metres per side. There will not be walls or fencing
just the post supports, wires and the pear trees.

What I need to know is how many pear trees do I need for this and how many
of each variety/pollination group, should they be planted side by side or
interspersed? I'd like Doyenne de Comice which would need a Group 4
pollination partner. Which other varieties would you recommend?

I only know from the RHS encycloedia that they recommend planting apple
espaliers 14 foot apart,this seems a bit much to me.I don't know if this is
the same for pears?

--
Thanks Keith,England,UK.
"Magwitch" wrote in message
...
anton muttered:


"keith ;-)" wrote in message
...
I have two young apple trees ,one is sunset which is a spur bearer i
have
planted this against a fence to train as espalier i would also like to
do
the same with apple discovery which is tip bearing.I have found out
recently
that tip bearers are not good for training as espaliers.
Has anyone trained one & had success or are you best to plant tip
bearers
as
standards?
They are for a fence in the vegetable garden or can they be trained
with
another method?


I have a Discovery on M111 that I trained as a not-very-brilliant
espalier.
The shoots are very stout and stiff compared with many other apple
varieties- so it's more difficult, though still possible, to persuade it
into a restricted form such as an espalier. I haven't always given it
the
attention that it deserves when training it, which has exacerbated its
reluctance to be properly trained.

Tip-bearing as such is not a major problem. The yield would be fine if
it
weren't for the wasps, who are peculiarly partial to a Discovery. :-(

http://www.btinternet.com/~treesandfruit/appl.htm


I want to do espaliered pears around our new vegetable plot - a 3-sided
boundary measuring @ 12 metres per side. There will not be walls or
fencing
just the post supports, wires and the pear trees.

What I need to know is how many pear trees do I need for this and how many
of each variety/pollination group, should they be planted side by side or
interspersed? I'd like Doyenne de Comice which would need a Group 4
pollination partner. Which other varieties would you recommend?

"Magwitch" wrote in message
...
anton muttered:

I want to do espaliered pears around our new vegetable plot - a 3-sided
boundary measuring @ 12 metres per side. There will not be walls or
fencing
just the post supports, wires and the pear trees.

What I need to know is how many pear trees do I need for this

2 or 3 trees per 12 metre- side, depending mainly on budget, rootstock
(Quince C or A), & how high you want to go.

and how many
of each variety/pollination group,

with 6-9 trees you shoudln't get any pollination problems unless you pick 5
late-blossoming & one early.

should they be planted side by side or
interspersed?

I'd probably start at one corner with the earliest and run progressively
round the edge to the latest. 12m is not far for a bee and so I don't think
positioning is crucial from a pollination pt of view. If one edge/ corner
is more sheltered than the others I'd place the earliest flowering in the
more sheltered position.

I'd like Doyenne de Comice which would need a Group 4
pollination partner. Which other varieties would you recommend?


Er, anything but Comice? It's terribly prone to scab, and so you will have
to spray it to get any crop, whereas most of the others are more or less
disease-free. My Comice is overdue for the chop as I don't spray and so I
get more or less nothing from it. I'd single out Concorde (son of Comice
and Conference) and Williams (bears at a very young age) as varieties that
I've had good experiences with.

Imho, the big deal with pears in particular is to get a range of ripening
dates, e.g:
http://www.btinternet.com/~treesandfruit/pear.htm
You need to pick them when they are not yet ripe; store them in a cool
place; inspect them every couple of days, and then as the yellow blush
spreads, bring the riper ones into the warm and give them another day or two
to completely ripen. For any one variety, you only get a week or so of
delicious juicy manna-on-a-stalk in large quantities. (But it's never a
glut- they are far too delicious to ever have a glut of pears).

So I would suggest:
1. Don't plant any 'repeats'- each tree should be a different variety.
2. Get as wide a range of ripening dates as possible, then check the range
of pollination classes you've got. It's most likely that with at least 6
trees, your pollination will be fine.

have fun

--
Anton

anton muttered:


"Magwitch" wrote in message
...
anton muttered:

I want to do espaliered pears around our new vegetable plot - a 3-sided
boundary measuring @ 12 metres per side. There will not be walls or
fencing
just the post supports, wires and the pear trees.

What I need to know is how many pear trees do I need for this

2 or 3 trees per 12 metre- side, depending mainly on budget, rootstock
(Quince C or A), & how high you want to go.

and how many
of each variety/pollination group,

with 6-9 trees you shoudln't get any pollination problems unless you pick 5
late-blossoming & one early.

should they be planted side by side or
interspersed?

I'd probably start at one corner with the earliest and run progressively
round the edge to the latest. 12m is not far for a bee and so I don't think
positioning is crucial from a pollination pt of view. If one edge/ corner
is more sheltered than the others I'd place the earliest flowering in the
more sheltered position.

I'd like Doyenne de Comice which would need a Group 4
pollination partner. Which other varieties would you recommend?


Er, anything but Comice? It's terribly prone to scab, and so you will have
to spray it to get any crop, whereas most of the others are more or less
disease-free. My Comice is overdue for the chop as I don't spray and so I
get more or less nothing from it. I'd single out Concorde (son of Comice
and Conference) and Williams (bears at a very young age) as varieties that
I've had good experiences with.

Imho, the big deal with pears in particular is to get a range of ripening
dates, e.g:
http://www.btinternet.com/~treesandfruit/pear.htm
You need to pick them when they are not yet ripe; store them in a cool
place; inspect them every couple of days, and then as the yellow blush
spreads, bring the riper ones into the warm and give them another day or two
to completely ripen. For any one variety, you only get a week or so of
delicious juicy manna-on-a-stalk in large quantities. (But it's never a
glut- they are far too delicious to ever have a glut of pears).

So I would suggest:
1. Don't plant any 'repeats'- each tree should be a different variety.
2. Get as wide a range of ripening dates as possible, then check the range
of pollination classes you've got. It's most likely that with at least 6
trees, your pollination will be fine.

have fun

--
Anton


Thank you sooo much! This is all very helpful and has given me confidence to
take the plunge, one more thing - will they need protection from deer and
rabbits?

"Magwitch" wrote in message
...
anton muttered:


"Magwitch" wrote in message
...
anton muttered:

I want to do espaliered pears around our new vegetable plot - a 3-sided
boundary measuring @ 12 metres per side. There will not be walls or
fencing
just the post supports, wires and the pear trees.


one more thing - will they need protection from deer and
rabbits?


Rabbit protection is fairly easy- you can get spiral-wound plastic thingies
to protect the trunk, which is probably worth doing in any case. These also
protect against voles which can be a problem when the trees are young.

Whether deer are a problem depends on where you are. Standard apple trees
can be physically protected against deer, but I can't see how an espalier
can.

Janet B's recipes for deer protection, iirc, include sweaty T-shirts tied at
deer-nose level. Have I got that right, Janet?

--
Anton