"Amynthas" wrote in message
...
In message , pied piper
writes

organic matter on which the worms feeds can be as deep as two feet .
Casting
worms are a pest to lawns and sports turf surfaces therefore preventatives
need to be used to control casting worms . Years ago Sydane was used which
just killed everything in the ground which is rightly why it has now been
banned . Unfortunately the preventatives are more costly and have to be
applied every three to four months for casting worms and every year for
leatherjacket control.
Of course the other way is to add lime to your soil to change the PH which
will also deter the worms but this is not suitable for sand based fescue
grasses.
Hope this helps and doesnt confuse you further Kay



Its amazing that uninformed people still go on about earthworms
being a pest. It's been over 100 years since Darwin published his work
on earthworms and the formation of vegetable mould. Since you probably
won't have access to his work or any of the numerous papers that support
his findings I will summarise.

To summarise his work, earthworms, in particular those species
that browse on the surface improve the fertility of the soil: their
vertical burrows allow air into the soil; increase drainage ; their
casts, which are a mixture of fine soil and organic waste from the
leaves they browse on, are an ideal fertilizer.

Another group of earthworms that haven't been mentioned are the
small species that live in the root mat. These are equally beneficial,
and being only able to burrow short distances are particularly
vulnerable to any noxious chemicals applied to the surface.

As to the surface browsers living happily without browsing on
the surface - no way, their only option is to feed or aestivate (i.e.
move to the bottom of the burrow, curl up and wait for better
conditions). Work by Evans and Raw in the 1970s demonstrated that none
of the chemical applications available then caused earthworms to
aestivate - it just killed them (in spite of the claims of the
producers) and I doubt if any of the newer concoctions are any better.

In case you think I'm confused or miss informed my information
comes from a 30 year career as an Oligochaetologist (that's an expert on
earthworms).
--
The casting worm is a pest there werent cricket pitches and golf greens etc
in Darwins day. Casting worms cause uneveness and break down of rootzone
structure in sports turf.
Oh and this information comes from 40 years of working as a turf technician
and running a company that builds and maintains sports pitches all over the
world.

"Amynthas" wrote in message
...
In message , pied piper
writes

organic matter on which the worms feeds can be as deep as two feet .
Casting
worms are a pest to lawns and sports turf surfaces therefore preventatives
need to be used to control casting worms . Years ago Sydane was used which
just killed everything in the ground which is rightly why it has now been
banned . Unfortunately the preventatives are more costly and have to be
applied every three to four months for casting worms and every year for
leatherjacket control.
Of course the other way is to add lime to your soil to change the PH which
will also deter the worms but this is not suitable for sand based fescue
grasses.
Hope this helps and doesnt confuse you further Kay



Its amazing that uninformed people still go on about earthworms
being a pest. It's been over 100 years since Darwin published his work
on earthworms and the formation of vegetable mould. Since you probably
won't have access to his work or any of the numerous papers that support
his findings I will summarise.

Or you could read it here;

http://pages.britishlibrary.net/char...uld/mould.html

or here;

http://charles-darwin.classic-litera...getable-mould/
etc

"pied piper" wrote in message
...

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , pied piper
writes


it only acts as a deterent to the casting worm which is of no benefit to
your rootzone


Can you explain that a little further?

The species of worm that leave casts on the surface burrow vertically,
aerating the soil. Can you explain the mechanism by which you avoid the
casts without disrupting the vertical burrowing? Do you mean that it
deters the worm from casting? Or it deters the species of worm that does
the casts?

Are you saying that this substance acts as a deterrent to one species of
worm but not another?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

It deters the worm from surfacing thus leaving no casts and worms burrow
both vertically and horizontally.
The aeration they provide is minimal and of no real benefit to the average
garden lawn.

Worms are important for what they do for soil fertility, they eat organic
matter (which they tend to find on or near the surface) and like all
herbivores such as cows and horses, once they have eaten it they discard the
waste out t'other end. since land will support a greater weight of
invertebrate life than vertebrate animals it follows that they are of
greater importance to the well being of soil and its fertility. and you do
not have to go and fetch the stuff! that they also aerate soil was also not
in dispute until this thread started :~)
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

In article , Kay
writes
In article , pied piper
writes


it only acts as a deterent to the casting worm which is of no benefit to
your rootzone


Can you explain that a little further?

The species of worm that leave casts on the surface burrow vertically,
aerating the soil. Can you explain the mechanism by which you avoid the
casts without disrupting the vertical burrowing? Do you mean that it
deters the worm from casting? Or it deters the species of worm that does
the casts?

Are you saying that this substance acts as a deterrent to one species of
worm but not another?

Yes, I agree Kay, it would be worrying to find some chemicals can
inhibit/deter earthworms.

Considering the way soil died in the areas where NZ flatworms ate all
the earthworms, I would rather put up with wormcasts than kill of
beneficial action in the soil!

janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
In article , Kay
writes
In article , pied piper
writes


it only acts as a deterent to the casting worm which is of no benefit to
your rootzone


Can you explain that a little further?

The species of worm that leave casts on the surface burrow vertically,
aerating the soil. Can you explain the mechanism by which you avoid the
casts without disrupting the vertical burrowing? Do you mean that it
deters the worm from casting? Or it deters the species of worm that does
the casts?

Are you saying that this substance acts as a deterrent to one species of
worm but not another?

Yes, I agree Kay, it would be worrying to find some chemicals can
inhibit/deter earthworms.

Considering the way soil died in the areas where NZ flatworms ate all the
earthworms, I would rather put up with wormcasts than kill of beneficial
action in the soil!

janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

I suggest you read the thread before posting the chemical deters not kills
the casting worm and is used for sports turf.

In article , pied piper
writes

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
In article , Kay
writes
In article , pied piper
writes


it only acts as a deterent to the casting worm which is of no benefit to
your rootzone


Can you explain that a little further?

The species of worm that leave casts on the surface burrow vertically,
aerating the soil. Can you explain the mechanism by which you avoid the
casts without disrupting the vertical burrowing? Do you mean that it
deters the worm from casting? Or it deters the species of worm that does
the casts?

Are you saying that this substance acts as a deterrent to one species of
worm but not another?

Yes, I agree Kay, it would be worrying to find some chemicals can
inhibit/deter earthworms.

Considering the way soil died in the areas where NZ flatworms ate all the
earthworms, I would rather put up with wormcasts than kill of beneficial
action in the soil!

I suggest you read the thread before posting the chemical deters not kills
the casting worm and is used for sports turf.

I agree absolutely - if you read the thread you will see the discussion
about the different genera of worms, the different digestive system
required depending on whether the worm in question is a surface feeding
(casting) worm or a deep feeder, and the ability, or otherwise, of a
surface feeding worm to utilise deep soil sources of food if it is
prevented/deterred from feeding at the surface.


--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"pied piper" wrote in message
...


[snip]

The casting worm is a pest there werent cricket pitches and golf
greens etc
in Darwins day.

You do surprise me.

[snip]

Franz

Franz Heymann wrote:
"pied piper" wrote in message
...


[snip]

The casting worm is a pest there werent cricket pitches and golf
greens etc
in Darwins day.

You do surprise me.

No, he's right, Franz: surely you know cricket and golf were invented
by, and remain the sole property of, Sky TV.

Mike.

In article , pied piper
writes


Considering the way soil died in the areas where NZ flatworms ate all the
earthworms, I would rather put up with wormcasts than kill of beneficial
action in the soil!

janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

I suggest you read the thread before posting the chemical deters not kills
the casting worm and is used for sports turf.




'Deterring worms' IS killing beneficial action in the soil. I said
exactly what I meant. I did not say killing the worms.

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Janet Baraclough
writes
The message
from Janet Tweedy contains these words:

Considering the way soil died in the areas where NZ flatworms ate all
the earthworms,

er, where?

AFAIK, as far as the UK is concerned that turned out to be a false
prediction.

Janet


I recall at least two articles in one of the other gardening magazines
Janet, where analysis of the soil in, I believe, Newcastle-upon-Tyne
allotments, showed very few worms or worm activity. Maybe Edward or Kay
will know the exact data.

However if you say that it all became 'rebalanced' I take your word
completely

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On 25/1/05 21:09, in article , "Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"pied piper" wrote in message
...


[snip]

The casting worm is a pest there werent cricket pitches and golf
greens etc
in Darwins day.

You do surprise me.

[snip]

Franz


I haven't seen PP's above quoted comment on my screen but W.G. Grace was
born in 1848 and Darwin in 1809; Darwin died in 1882. I think it's fair to
assume that cricket was being played in England in Darwin's time because the
first club was formed in 1750.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

"Sacha" wrote in message
k...
On 25/1/05 21:09, in article , "Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"pied piper" wrote in message
...


[snip]

The casting worm is a pest there werent cricket pitches and golf
greens etc
in Darwins day.

You do surprise me.

[snip]

Franz


I haven't seen PP's above quoted comment on my screen but W.G. Grace was
born in 1848 and Darwin in 1809; Darwin died in 1882. I think it's fair to
assume that cricket was being played in England in Darwin's time because
the
first club was formed in 1750.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

doh what a numbskull I was refering to cricket pitches after the sports turf
science revolution all them years ago cricket was just played in the middle
of a field

In article , pied piper
writes


doh what a numbskull I was refering to cricket pitches after the sports turf
science revolution all them years ago cricket was just played in the middle
of a field

Well, perhaps you should have said so?

Insulting your reader for failing to understand your imprecise use of
language is counter-productive if your aim is bring your audience to a
belief in your argument.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:
"pied piper" wrote in message
...


[snip]

The casting worm is a pest there werent cricket pitches and golf
greens etc
in Darwins day.

You do surprise me.

No, he's right, Franz: surely you know cricket and golf were
invented
by, and remain the sole property of, Sky TV.

{:-))

Franz