"bigboard" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind and
rotund. They just don't eat fast enough
Seriously, should I perhaps put a trowelful of garden soil in
their
hostel now and again?

I don't think that would help. They like a bit of calcified sea weed
now and
again though.

I asked because somebody once said they needed gritty matter to help
masticate (if masticate is the word I want) their food.

But thanks for the tip about calcified seaweed. I'll try it.

Franz

"jane" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:01:10 +0000, bigboard
wrote:

~Nick Maclaren wrote:
~
~ In article ,
~ jane wrote:
~
~I love that quote. Would have liked to put it at the start of my
~thesis but at the time my external examiner wasn't sorted and
could
~have been a medical physicist or a clued-up medic and I didn't
want
~the latter to get rebuffed and be more likely to fail me!
~
~ Whereas I loathe it intensely. It wouldn't matter if so many
boneheaded
~ physicists didn't believe it - and extrapolate it to mean that
they don't
~ need to learn from other sciences :-(

Nah, we just used it at Uni to wind up the Chemists!
(Best way was to mention that chemistry is a subset of physics. You
got the best effect after they'd had 2-3 pints on a Friday night :-)

The quote never fails to wind up every other scientific discipline.
As
all physics students know well :-)

And we must know
If it moves, it's biology
If it reacts (or blows up, or smells) it's chemistry
If it doesn't work, it's physics.

which is a negative comment on school physics lessons! (Though
having
had a capacitor blow up in my face once in a physics lesson, I could
alter it a bit).

However!!!
Anyone who is a gardener is an amateur botanist and biologist (and
entomologist!) . If you test soil for pH, and add matter/compounds
to
correct soil problems, you're a chemist. And we are all also
amateur
meteorologists (at least in Europe!).

Any others? I'm sure I've missed several.

If we select seeds we ar geneticists.

So there we are, every gardener is a scientist. Also an artist
(after
all, we paint with flowers and design our plots.) What better hobby
can one have to cover so many disciplines equally?

~Aha! A stamp collector. ;)

Wouldn't you love to know what Rutherford got as a reaction when he
originally said it? I'm sure it got one...

He was very careful about where and when he said it.

Franz

Franz Heymann wrote:
"jane" wrote in message
[...]
Anyone who is a gardener is an amateur botanist and biologist (and
entomologist!) . If you test soil for pH, and add matter/compounds
to
correct soil problems, you're a chemist. And we are all also
amateur
meteorologists (at least in Europe!).

Any others? I'm sure I've missed several.

If we select seeds we ar geneticists.
[...]

I once had Asian flu, so I'm an epidemiologist.

Mike.

In article ,
Franz Heymann wrote:

That's true, and entirely understandable. Physicists deal, more often
than not, with such a profusion of clean data compared with folk in
the medical and social sciences that in practice they can afford to be
somewhat cavalier with specifying their confidence limits.

Well, it WAS true in Rutherford's day, but has become decreasingly
less so both theoretically and practically.

The recent (bad) television program reminded people of Einstein's
difficulty in accepting (and even understanding) some really trivial
concepts because they were non-deterministic and (worse) acausal.
Yes, I do mean that quantum mechanics is conceptually trivial; it
is the consequences and details that are not.

And over the years, I have been unsuccessfully trying to get a
glimmer of understanding of uncertainty into the heads of merely
good physicists and similar, when they have got beyond the point that
simple confidence limit amalysis is enough (yes, the best ones can
handle it.)

Perhaps this has got rather off-group, so I shall stop :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Franz Heymann wrote:


I asked because somebody once said they needed gritty matter to help
masticate (if masticate is the word I want) their food.

I think that they were giving you the bird.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
snip

Perhaps this has got rather off-group, so I shall stop :-)


Probably ...

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:08:58 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:55:13 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"bigboard" wrote in message
...
Mike Lyle wrote:

[snip]
I have a small wormery that produces excellent compost and
liquid
plant
food, and takes all of my organic kitchen waste. It sits next
to
the
bin in
my kitchen and was worth every penny. What have you got
against
them?

The fact that it takes six weeks to dispose of 1 week's kitchen
waste.

You pamper your worms Franz.

Since we last spoke on the topic, I threw those Tubergen bulb trays
in
the waste bin and rehoused my worms in a wormery made by drilling
plenty of holes in the bottom of some old chicken pellet buckets.
They stack nicely. The worms still don't eat.

Are they a species of hibernating worm?

The equipment is in my garage, which also houses the central heating
boiler on the opposite wall.

They just lie there
laughing at me.

LOL it sounds like Tom and Gerry

Franz

Franz Heymann wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:08:58 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
[...]
Since we last spoke on the topic, I threw those Tubergen bulb
trays
in the waste bin and rehoused my worms in a wormery made by
drilling
plenty of holes in the bottom of some old chicken pellet buckets.
They stack nicely. The worms still don't eat.

Are they a species of hibernating worm?

The equipment is in my garage, which also houses the central
heating
boiler on the opposite wall.
[...]

I expect a man of your background has taken the temp inside the
wormery. I've no idea of the range they like.

Light level?

Mike.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Franz Heymann wrote:

That's true, and entirely understandable. Physicists deal, more
often
than not, with such a profusion of clean data compared with folk in
the medical and social sciences that in practice they can afford to
be
somewhat cavalier with specifying their confidence limits.

Well, it WAS true in Rutherford's day, but has become decreasingly
less so both theoretically and practically.

The recent (bad) television program reminded people of Einstein's
difficulty in accepting (and even understanding) some really trivial
concepts because they were non-deterministic and (worse) acausal.

This is not the forum for such details of physics, but I feel
compelled to let you know that QM is non-deterministic, but it is
quite strictly causal.

Yes, I do mean that quantum mechanics is conceptually trivial; it
is the consequences and details that are not.

And over the years, I have been unsuccessfully trying to get a
glimmer of understanding of uncertainty into the heads of merely
good physicists and similar, when they have got beyond the point
that
simple confidence limit amalysis is enough (yes, the best ones can
handle it.)

It usually is enough. There are only very rew instances in which the
statistics are so poor that a deeper analysis is necessary.
Physicists usually try to postpone a final analysis until sufficient
data is available.

Perhaps this has got rather off-group, so I shall stop :-)

I agree.
If you are interested in following ir up, try posting to sci.physics.
(Where you have to duck to avoid the emanations of the kooks)

Franz

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:34:54 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:


I saw one on TV once. "Maggotry", on the other hand, sounds like an
obscure criminal offence, possibly less common in these days of
widespread street-lighting.

Somebody, who idolised/sucked up to the blessed Margaret?

LOL
Martin, that's your best so far.

Franz

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:08:59 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

... said the man with the failed worm farm :-)

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind and
rotund. They just don't eat fast enough
Seriously, should I perhaps put a trowelful of garden soil in their
hostel now and again?

Have you tried urinating on them? I think they deserve it.

I am trying to persuade them to eat, not ****ed.

Franz

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind and
rotund.

Rotund doesn't sound much like brandling worms. You're not using
earthworms, by any chance?

I bought them at great expense from a firm which sold them as worms
for composting.
Hoever, Kay used to have a url to a site on worm composting. I think
it was produced by her better half. (The site, that is, not the
compost. {:-))
There, it was stated quite unequivocally that it was unnecessary to
obtain special worms for a wormery, and that garden earthworms were as
good as anything.

Franz

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind and
rotund.

Rotund doesn't sound much like brandling worms. You're not using
earthworms, by any chance?

I bought them at great expense from a firm which sold them as worms
for composting.
Hoever, Kay used to have a url to a site on worm composting. I think
it was produced by her better half. (The site, that is, not the
compost. {:-))
There, it was stated quite unequivocally that it was unnecessary to
obtain special worms for a wormery, and that garden earthworms were as
good as anything.

Franz

Franz Heymann wrote:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind and
rotund.

Rotund doesn't sound much like brandling worms. You're not using
earthworms, by any chance?

I bought them at great expense from a firm which sold them as worms
for composting.
Hoever, Kay used to have a url to a site on worm composting. I think
it was produced by her better half. (The site, that is, not the
compost. {:-))
There, it was stated quite unequivocally that it was unnecessary to
obtain special worms for a wormery, and that garden earthworms were as
good as anything.

You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

--
If you sit down at a poker game and don't see a sucker, get up. You're
the sucker.

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Franz Heymann wrote:


I asked because somebody once said they needed gritty matter to help
masticate (if masticate is the word I want) their food.

I think that they were giving you the bird.


One way to get a good crop

--
regards andyw

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:08:58 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:
[...]
Since we last spoke on the topic, I threw those Tubergen bulb
trays
in the waste bin and rehoused my worms in a wormery made by
drilling
plenty of holes in the bottom of some old chicken pellet
buckets.
They stack nicely. The worms still don't eat.

Are they a species of hibernating worm?

The equipment is in my garage, which also houses the central
heating
boiler on the opposite wall.
[...]

I expect a man of your background has taken the temp inside the
wormery. I've no idea of the range they like.

I haven't measured it. What I can say is that feels comfortable to
me, day and night.

Light level?

Pitch dark most of the time

Franz

In message , bigboard
writes
You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type
completely.

Presumably the ones (like earthworms but thinner and darker) that take
up residence voluntarily are the right ones?

--
Klara, Gatwick basin

Klara wrote:

In message , bigboard
writes
You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type
completely.

Presumably the ones (like earthworms but thinner and darker) that take
up residence voluntarily are the right ones?


Yes! There are a couple of different species, known by various names such as
Brandlings, Red Worms, Tiger worms, Compost worms, etc.

--
Linus: I guess it's wrong always to be worrying about tomorrow.
Maybe we should think only about today.
Charlie Brown:
No, that's giving up. I'm still hoping that yesterday
will get better.

"bigboard" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind
and
rotund.

Rotund doesn't sound much like brandling worms. You're not
using
earthworms, by any chance?

I bought them at great expense from a firm which sold them as
worms
for composting.
Hoever, Kay used to have a url to a site on worm composting. I
think
it was produced by her better half. (The site, that is, not the
compost. {:-))
There, it was stated quite unequivocally that it was unnecessary
to
obtain special worms for a wormery, and that garden earthworms
were as
good as anything.

You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in worm
composting accessories.
Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was written
by someone whose professional research is concerned with a study of
worms.
Do I believe him ot you?

Franz

Franz Heymann wrote:


"bigboard" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind
and
rotund.

Rotund doesn't sound much like brandling worms. You're not
using
earthworms, by any chance?

I bought them at great expense from a firm which sold them as
worms
for composting.
Hoever, Kay used to have a url to a site on worm composting. I
think
it was produced by her better half. (The site, that is, not the
compost. {:-))
There, it was stated quite unequivocally that it was unnecessary
to
obtain special worms for a wormery, and that garden earthworms
were as
good as anything.

You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in worm
composting accessories.

In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was written
by someone whose professional research is concerned with a study of
worms.
Do I believe him ot you?

As I studied the ecology of Earthworms extensively at university, I would
suggest a third possibility: you have incorrectly remembered what you read
on this site. If you would care to provide a direct link to your evidence,
I will, of course, apologise. Similarly, if it turns out that you are
mistaken, perhaps you could do the decent thing?


--
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World
War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
-- Albert Einstein

"bigboard" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:

snip

If you would care to provide a direct link to your evidence,
I will, of course, apologise. Similarly, if it turns out that you are
mistaken, perhaps you could do the decent thing?



Do the 'decent thing'? Isn't that the euphemism employed when they left a
chap alone in his study with a loaded service revolver? Bit excessive in
this case, surely :-)

Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in worm
composting accessories.

In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was written
by someone whose professional research is concerned with a study of
worms.
Do I believe him ot you?

As I studied the ecology of Earthworms extensively at university, I would
suggest a third possibility: you have incorrectly remembered what you read
on this site. If you would care to provide a direct link to your evidence,
I will, of course, apologise. Similarly, if it turns out that you are
mistaken, perhaps you could do the decent thing?

I have read the site that Franz is on about and indeed it does say that the
worms for composting can be obtained from your garden. What I think confuses
Franz is the different types of worms that can be found in the garden. The
site mentions that tiger worms etc are just fancy names for what are
commonly known as brandlings (Eisenia foetida) and redworms and can easily
be collected from compost heaps and under stones etc. It does not say that
earthworms( Lumbricus terrestis) which found on lawns etc and are commonly
known as lobworms are suitable for wormeries.I do not have the URL

In article ,
bigboard writes:
| Franz Heymann wrote:
|
| You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
| Lumbricus
| terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.
|
| Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in worm
| composting accessories.
|
| In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Why not? As is normal in English, the word "earthworm" has both
a specific and generic meaning - in the former, it means an individual
of the genus Lumbricus (NOT necessarily terrestris) and, in the latter,
it means any worm that lives in the earth.

| Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was written
| by someone whose professional research is concerned with a study of
| worms.
| Do I believe him ot you?
|
| As I studied the ecology of Earthworms extensively at university, I would
| suggest a third possibility: you have incorrectly remembered what you read
| on this site. If you would care to provide a direct link to your evidence,
| I will, of course, apologise. Similarly, if it turns out that you are
| mistaken, perhaps you could do the decent thing?

I can suggest a fourth one - you are using the word "earthworm" in
a ridiculously specific sense. If you want to refer to the species
Lumbricus terrestris, then please use that name - otherwise be aware
that the term also includes other worms, some of which ARE common
inhabitants of the earth in the UK and widely recommended for
wormeries.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
"suspicious minds" writes:
|
| I have read the site that Franz is on about and indeed it does say that the
| worms for composting can be obtained from your garden. What I think confuses
| Franz is the different types of worms that can be found in the garden. The
| site mentions that tiger worms etc are just fancy names for what are
| commonly known as brandlings (Eisenia foetida) and redworms and can easily
| be collected from compost heaps and under stones etc. It does not say that
| earthworms( Lumbricus terrestis) which found on lawns etc and are commonly
| known as lobworms are suitable for wormeries.I do not have the URL

Er, not quite.

Lumbricus rubellus is called both the redworm and earthworm, even
in the latter term's more restrictive sense, and are (as far as I
know) called tiger worms only by the less reputable sort of worm
farm salesman. The term "lobworm" is more often used nowadays for
the lugworm (Arenicola marina) than any Lumbricus, but used to be
used for the latter. Lumbricus terrestris was also called the
dew-worm or dew-crawler.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
[...]
Lumbricus rubellus is called both the redworm and earthworm, even
in the latter term's more restrictive sense, and are (as far as I
know) called tiger worms only by the less reputable sort of worm
farm salesman. The term "lobworm" is more often used nowadays for
the lugworm (Arenicola marina) than any Lumbricus, but used to be
used for the latter. Lumbricus terrestris was also called the
dew-worm or dew-crawler.

Really aggrethive wormth wear little helminth.

Mike.

Nick Maclaren wrote:


In article ,
bigboard writes:
| Franz Heymann wrote:
|
| You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
| Lumbricus
| terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.
|
| Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in
| worm composting accessories.
|
| In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Why not? As is normal in English, the word "earthworm" has both
a specific and generic meaning - in the former, it means an individual
of the genus Lumbricus (NOT necessarily terrestris) and, in the latter,
it means any worm that lives in the earth.

| Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was
| written by someone whose professional research is concerned with a
| study of worms.
| Do I believe him ot you?
|
| As I studied the ecology of Earthworms extensively at university, I
| would suggest a third possibility: you have incorrectly remembered what
| you read on this site. If you would care to provide a direct link to
| your evidence, I will, of course, apologise. Similarly, if it turns out
| that you are mistaken, perhaps you could do the decent thing?

I can suggest a fourth one - you are using the word "earthworm" in
a ridiculously specific sense.

In the sense of those that live in tunnels in the earth? If by ridiculously
specific you mean 'correct' then I agree with you.

If you want to refer to the species
Lumbricus terrestris, then please use that name - otherwise be aware
that the term also includes other worms, some of which ARE common
inhabitants of the earth in the UK and widely recommended for
wormeries.

'Earthworm', in every other person I have ever spoken with, refers to those
that live in the soil and leave casts on the lawn. Earth meaning 'earth',
and worm meaning 'worm'. Hope this is clearer for you now.

--
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a bit
longer."
-- Henry Kissinger

In article ,
bigboard writes:
|
| Why not? As is normal in English, the word "earthworm" has both
| a specific and generic meaning - in the former, it means an individual
| of the genus Lumbricus (NOT necessarily terrestris) and, in the latter,
| it means any worm that lives in the earth.
|
| I can suggest a fourth one - you are using the word "earthworm" in
| a ridiculously specific sense.
|
| In the sense of those that live in tunnels in the earth? If by ridiculously
| specific you mean 'correct' then I agree with you.

No, by "ridiculously specific" I am implying "incorrect".

| If you want to refer to the species
| Lumbricus terrestris, then please use that name - otherwise be aware
| that the term also includes other worms, some of which ARE common
| inhabitants of the earth in the UK and widely recommended for
| wormeries.
|
| 'Earthworm', in every other person I have ever spoken with, refers to those
| that live in the soil and leave casts on the lawn. Earth meaning 'earth',
| and worm meaning 'worm'. Hope this is clearer for you now.

Then perhaps you should get out a little more (and probably read
a bit more). If you look around, you will find that Lumbricus
rubellus is commonly (even normally) called an earthworm, and many
people claim that it works in wormeries.

You will have to look a bit further to find the more general uses
of the term "earthworm", but I suggest looking at the OED as a
reference that summarises how words of the English language are
used in practice. Please don't invent your own meanings without
saying that you are doing so, as it merely causes confusion.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

Then perhaps you should get out a little more (and probably read
a bit more). If you look around, you will find that Lumbricus
rubellus is commonly (even normally) called an earthworm, and many
people claim that it works in wormeries.

You will have to look a bit further to find the more general uses
of the term "earthworm", but I suggest looking at the OED as a
reference that summarises how words of the English language are
used in practice. Please don't invent your own meanings without
saying that you are doing so, as it merely causes confusion.

I'm sorry if using 'Earthworm' to indicate a type of worm distinct from a
composting worm confused you. I would have imagined that the meaning could
be easily grokked from context.

--
In the old days, it was not called the Holiday Season; the Christians
called it "Christmas" and went to church; the Jews called it "Hanukka"
and went to synagogue; the atheists went to parties and drank. People
passing each other on the street would say "Merry Christmas!" or "Happy
Hanukka!" or (to the atheists) "Look out for the wall!"
-- Dave Barry, "Christmas Shopping: A Survivor's Guide"

In article ,
bigboard writes:
| Nick Maclaren wrote:
|
| Then perhaps you should get out a little more (and probably read
| a bit more). If you look around, you will find that Lumbricus
| rubellus is commonly (even normally) called an earthworm, and many
| people claim that it works in wormeries.
|
| You will have to look a bit further to find the more general uses
| of the term "earthworm", but I suggest looking at the OED as a
| reference that summarises how words of the English language are
| used in practice. Please don't invent your own meanings without
| saying that you are doing so, as it merely causes confusion.
|
| I'm sorry if using 'Earthworm' to indicate a type of worm distinct from a
| composting worm confused you. I would have imagined that the meaning could
| be easily grokked from context.

Oh, it didn't confuse me - I was and am perfectly aware of what you
meant, being someone who is familiar with a large number of pseudo-
scientific jargons.

I was pointing out to you why your misuse of the English language
had caused an unnecessary argument between you and Franz Heymann.
Specifically:

You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in worm
composting accessories.

In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Your first sentence is incorrect, though you are using the term
"earthworm" in a misleading fashion. Your last sentence is incorrect.
They could perfectly well have been Lumbricus rubellus.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"suspicious minds" writes:
|
| I have read the site that Franz is on about and indeed it does say that
the
| worms for composting can be obtained from your garden. What I think
confuses
| Franz is the different types of worms that can be found in the garden.
The
| site mentions that tiger worms etc are just fancy names for what are
| commonly known as brandlings (Eisenia foetida) and redworms and can
easily
| be collected from compost heaps and under stones etc. It does not say
that
| earthworms( Lumbricus terrestis) which found on lawns etc and are
commonly
| known as lobworms are suitable for wormeries.I do not have the URL

Er, not quite.

Lumbricus rubellus is called both the redworm and earthworm, even
in the latter term's more restrictive sense, and are (as far as I
know) called tiger worms only by the less reputable sort of worm
farm salesman. The term "lobworm" is more often used nowadays for
the lugworm (Arenicola marina) than any Lumbricus, but used to be
used for the latter. Lumbricus terrestris was also called the
dew-worm or dew-crawler.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Genarally speaking most non marine worms are "earthworms"
those most suitable for wormeries are brandlings (Eisenia foetida) and
redworm (Lumbricus rubellus)
Lobworm is used for (Lumbricus terrestris) look at any UK coarse(
freshwater) angling site, aka night crawler in America.
There are two marine species of lugworm, black lug (Arenicola defodiens )
and blow lug ( Arenicola marina) some dictionaries will refer to lugworm as
a lobworm but I have never heard any UK sea angler call the marine lugworm a
lobworm, look at any UK sea angling site
Lobworm =non marine
Lugworm = marine

Corrected version - the previous one had a typo.

In article ,
bigboard writes:
| Nick Maclaren wrote:
|
| Then perhaps you should get out a little more (and probably read
| a bit more). If you look around, you will find that Lumbricus
| rubellus is commonly (even normally) called an earthworm, and many
| people claim that it works in wormeries.
|
| You will have to look a bit further to find the more general uses
| of the term "earthworm", but I suggest looking at the OED as a
| reference that summarises how words of the English language are
| used in practice. Please don't invent your own meanings without
| saying that you are doing so, as it merely causes confusion.
|
| I'm sorry if using 'Earthworm' to indicate a type of worm distinct from a
| composting worm confused you. I would have imagined that the meaning could
| be easily grokked from context.

Oh, it didn't confuse me - I was and am perfectly aware of what you
meant, being someone who is familiar with a large number of pseudo-
scientific jargons.

I was pointing out to you why your misuse of the English language
had caused an unnecessary argument between you and Franz Heymann.
Specifically:

You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in worm
composting accessories.

In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Your first sentence is correct, though you are using the term "earthworm"
^^^^^^^
in a misleading fashion. Your last sentence is incorrect. They could
perfectly well have been Lumbricus rubellus.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
"suspicious minds" writes:
|
| Genarally speaking most non marine worms are "earthworms"

Yup.

| those most suitable for wormeries are brandlings (Eisenia foetida) and
| redworm (Lumbricus rubellus)

You could well be right - I don't know about that.

| Lobworm is used for (Lumbricus terrestris) look at any UK coarse(
| freshwater) angling site, aka night crawler in America.

Yes, I know that, but have never heard it outside the sea angling
community, and I don't have much contact with that.

| There are two marine species of lugworm, black lug (Arenicola defodiens )
| and blow lug ( Arenicola marina) some dictionaries will refer to lugworm as
| a lobworm but I have never heard any UK sea angler call the marine lugworm a
| lobworm, look at any UK sea angling site
| Lobworm =non marine
| Lugworm = marine

Well, not everyone who talks about such worms is a sea angler, you
know :-)

Actually, I have heard sea anglers refer to lugworms as lobworms,
and the OED confirms my recollection. It could well have been a
local usage, possibly even one that has now disappeared.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:


Corrected version - the previous one had a typo.

In article ,
bigboard writes:
| Nick Maclaren wrote:
|
| Then perhaps you should get out a little more (and probably read
| a bit more). If you look around, you will find that Lumbricus
| rubellus is commonly (even normally) called an earthworm, and many
| people claim that it works in wormeries.
|
| You will have to look a bit further to find the more general uses
| of the term "earthworm", but I suggest looking at the OED as a
| reference that summarises how words of the English language are
| used in practice. Please don't invent your own meanings without
| saying that you are doing so, as it merely causes confusion.
|
| I'm sorry if using 'Earthworm' to indicate a type of worm distinct from
| a composting worm confused you. I would have imagined that the meaning
| could be easily grokked from context.

Oh, it didn't confuse me - I was and am perfectly aware of what you
meant, being someone who is familiar with a large number of pseudo-
scientific jargons.


I was pointing out to you why your misuse of the English language

Which is hardly a fixed and rational language!

had caused an unnecessary argument between you and Franz Heymann.
Specifically:


English can be pesky like that. Meanings are usually defined by the way they
are used. We obviously have different experiences of the way earthworm is
used. This is not just me trying to defend myself against the odds; I know
ecologists with doctorates who use 'earthworm' in the same way as me. We
may well be wrong, but as I said, meaning usually comes from use. In any
case, your experience, and that of others, is obviously different from
mine, so you are right that that is where the original confusion occurred.
I'll stick to species names in future!

You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in
worm composting accessories.

In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Your first sentence is correct, though you are using the term "earthworm"
^^^^^^^
in a misleading fashion. Your last sentence is incorrect. They could
perfectly well have been Lumbricus rubellus.




--
If at first you don't succeed, give up, no use being a damn fool.

"bigboard" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:


"bigboard" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in
message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann"
contains
these words:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are
thrivind
and
rotund.

Rotund doesn't sound much like brandling worms. You're not
using
earthworms, by any chance?

I bought them at great expense from a firm which sold them as
worms
for composting.
Hoever, Kay used to have a url to a site on worm composting. I
think
it was produced by her better half. (The site, that is, not
the
compost. {:-))
There, it was stated quite unequivocally that it was
unnecessary
to
obtain special worms for a wormery, and that garden earthworms
were as
good as anything.

You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in
worm
composting accessories.

In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was
written
by someone whose professional research is concerned with a study
of
worms.
Do I believe him ot you?

As I studied the ecology of Earthworms extensively at university, I
would
suggest a third possibility: you have incorrectly remembered what
you read
on this site.

I am definitely not misremembering.
The field of research of the person of whom I am talking is, wait for
it, worms.

If you would care to provide a direct link to your evidence,
I will, of course, apologise. Similarly, if it turns out that you
are
mistaken, perhaps you could do the decent thing?

I always apologise, without exception, as soon as I discover that I am
wrong.

I did not keep a record of that URL, but I will try and get hold of it
by contacting Kay in this ng.
Be patient for a few days while we see what I can dig up.

Franz

"bigboard" wrote in message
...
Franz Heymann wrote:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind
and
rotund.

Rotund doesn't sound much like brandling worms. You're not
using
earthworms, by any chance?

I bought them at great expense from a firm which sold them as
worms
for composting.
Hoever, Kay used to have a url to a site on worm composting. I
think
it was produced by her better half. (The site, that is, not the
compost. {:-))
There, it was stated quite unequivocally that it was unnecessary
to
obtain special worms for a wormery, and that garden earthworms
were as
good as anything.

You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

I never mentioned the words"Lumbricus terreatris", so you are raising
a srtrawman.
I don't respond to strawmen.

Here is the URL I promised to get:

http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

I expect your promised apology in the next post.

Franz

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "suspicious minds" contains these
words:



Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises
in worm
composting accessories.

In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was
written
by someone whose professional research is concerned with a
study of
worms.
Do I believe him ot you?

As I studied the ecology of Earthworms extensively at
university, I would
suggest a third possibility: you have incorrectly remembered
what you read
on this site. If you would care to provide a direct link to your
evidence,
I will, of course, apologise. Similarly, if it turns out that
you are
mistaken, perhaps you could do the decent thing?

I have read the site that Franz is on about and indeed it does say
that the
worms for composting can be obtained from your garden. What I
think
confuses
Franz is the different types of worms that can be found in the
garden. The
site mentions that tiger worms etc are just fancy names for what
are
commonly known as brandlings (Eisenia foetida) and redworms and
can easily
be collected from compost heaps and under stones etc. It does not
say that
earthworms( Lumbricus terrestis) which found on lawns etc and are
commonly
known as lobworms are suitable for wormeries.I do not have the URL

it's Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/



I posted a similar comment a couple of days ago, same conclusion
as
Suspicious. Franz misinterpreted what it said

I did not misinterpret anything I read in that URL. I am not familiar
with the name Lumbricus terrestis, so I would not have used it. There
are other earthworms.

Franz

In article , Franz Heymann
writes

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:

I do not have any failed worms on my farm. They are thrivind and
rotund.

Rotund doesn't sound much like brandling worms. You're not using
earthworms, by any chance?

I bought them at great expense from a firm which sold them as worms
for composting.
Hoever, Kay used to have a url to a site on worm composting. I think
it was produced by her better half. (The site, that is, not the
compost. {:-))
There, it was stated quite unequivocally that it was unnecessary to
obtain special worms for a wormery, and that garden earthworms were as
good as anything.

It's a bit misleading, that site. He means that by adding garden soil
preferably turves or something with a high level of humus, you'll soon
get your own supply of brandlings which breed quickly and like the high
humus conditions of the compost heap - ie brandlings are one of the
several species of worm that are around in the garden, and it's a bit of
a waste of money to buy them - if you have the right conditions, they'll
breed, if you don't have the right conditions, even bought ones won't be
happy.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article , Franz Heymann notfranz.
writes


You can get composting worms from your garden, but earthworms, ie
Lumbricus
terrestris, would not be any use at all. Wrong type completely.

Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in worm
composting accessories.
Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was written
by someone whose professional research is concerned with a study of
worms.
Do I believe him ot you?

Both - they're not contradicting each other (see my other post)
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article , suspicious minds me-
writes


Firstly, the worms were sold to me by a firm which specialises in worm
composting accessories.

In which case they will not be 'earthworms'.

Secondly, that url to which Kay used to draw our attention was written
by someone whose professional research is concerned with a study of
worms.
Do I believe him ot you?

As I studied the ecology of Earthworms extensively at university, I would
suggest a third possibility: you have incorrectly remembered what you read
on this site. If you would care to provide a direct link to your evidence,
I will, of course, apologise. Similarly, if it turns out that you are
mistaken, perhaps you could do the decent thing?

I have read the site that Franz is on about and indeed it does say that the
worms for composting can be obtained from your garden. What I think confuses
Franz is the different types of worms that can be found in the garden. The
site mentions that tiger worms etc are just fancy names for what are
commonly known as brandlings (Eisenia foetida) and redworms and can easily
be collected from compost heaps and under stones etc. It does not say that
earthworms( Lumbricus terrestis) which found on lawns etc and are commonly
known as lobworms are suitable for wormeries.I do not have the URL


http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"