Could sombody give me the lowdown on the difference between C. speciosa
and C. japonica? They both look the same to me.

thanks

P.

papa wrote:

Could sombody give me the lowdown on the difference between C. speciosa
and C. japonica? They both look the same to me.

Quite often the plants are confused, but true Chaenomeles japonica has
rather dense, twiggy growth, which is often somewhat slender and
carries bowl shaped, variable but most frequently soft orange red
flowers to about 3 cms. across early in the year. C. speciosa is
larger and more vigorous in all of its parts with richer red flowers
to 4 or 5 cms+. The hybrid C x superba is a cross between both
species and is generally more vigorous than either parent with large
showy flowers.

HTH

Dave Poole
Torquay, Coastal South Devon UK
Winter min -2°C. Summer max 34°C.
Growing season: March - November

In article ,
Dave Poole writes:
| papa wrote:
|
| Could sombody give me the lowdown on the difference between C. speciosa
| and C. japonica? They both look the same to me.
|
| Quite often the plants are confused, but true Chaenomeles japonica has
| rather dense, twiggy growth, which is often somewhat slender and
| carries bowl shaped, variable but most frequently soft orange red
| flowers to about 3 cms. across early in the year. C. speciosa is
| larger and more vigorous in all of its parts with richer red flowers
| to 4 or 5 cms+. The hybrid C x superba is a cross between both
| species and is generally more vigorous than either parent with large
| showy flowers.

Are you sure? I have C. speciosa and ditto "Nivalis", and know
of several others. All are very vigorous and get to 8-10' high
with c. 2' shoot growth in a season. The only C. x superba I grow
is "Crimson and Gold" (and perhaps "Geisha Girl") and it is MUCH
less vigorous. More importantly, when I have seen clearly other
garden hybrid Chaenomeles, they have been little more vigorous
than my "Crimson and Gold" - the big ones I have seen have all
been C. speciosa.

Do many of the C. x superba REALLY grow more vigorously than
C. speciosa? It seems surprising.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

Are you sure? I have C. speciosa and ditto "Nivalis", and know
of several others. All are very vigorous and get to 8-10' high
with c. 2' shoot growth in a season.

Well I'll agree with you about those - typical speciosas and vigorous
as you say.

The only C. x superba I grow
is "Crimson and Gold" (and perhaps "Geisha Girl") and it is MUCH
less vigorous.

Ah but then you have 'Knaphill Scarlet', Pink Lady and 'Elly Mossel'
which although not necessarily growing taller, are certainly stockier
and heavier growers and once well established, darned fast. Well at
least the plants that I've seen or grown. I know of a magnificent
'Pink Lady' that was well over 10 feet and rather more across when I
last saw it 6 years ago. Absolutely fantastic in full flower.
(That's very high praise indeed coming from someone who now normally
finds many 'hardy garden plants' a bit 'ho-hum' ! ) Also, there's a
very fine trained 'Knaphill Scarlet' in a private garden just outside
Newton Abbot that is well over 12 feet across, though it is
restrained at 7 feet high.

As to 'Crimson & Gold', at best it seems to be about on a par with the
parents and I've not grown it much above 7 feet except on one
occasion. It spreads sideways with some considerable enthusiasm
though. I think it prefers a really good, rich, moist soil to give
its best and I can't disagree with you on it not quite matching the
speciosa parent.

Do many of the C. x superba REALLY grow more vigorously than
C. speciosa? It seems surprising.

As mentioned above Nick, they may not necessarily grow any taller, but
the volume of the plant, thickness of the stems etc seems to be much
greater. Comparing plants that have been established for 8 or 10
years and a good many of the superbas seem to have the sturdier
growth. I suppose it is how you classify vigour - for me height is
only one part of the equation.

Dave Poole
Torquay, Coastal South Devon UK
Winter min -2°C. Summer max 34°C.
Growing season: March - November

In article ,
Dave Poole wrote:
The only C. x superba I grow
is "Crimson and Gold" (and perhaps "Geisha Girl") and it is MUCH
less vigorous.

Ah but then you have 'Knaphill Scarlet', Pink Lady and 'Elly Mossel'
which although not necessarily growing taller, are certainly stockier
and heavier growers and once well established, darned fast. ...

So "Crimson and Gold" may be an oddity, though Bean says not.

As to 'Crimson & Gold', at best it seems to be about on a par with the
parents and I've not grown it much above 7 feet except on one
occasion. It spreads sideways with some considerable enthusiasm
though. I think it prefers a really good, rich, moist soil to give
its best and I can't disagree with you on it not quite matching the
speciosa parent.

I have never seen it much above 5', and it has much more of a C. japonica
growth pattern in most cases. Certainly in my garden, where the soil
is pretty good, and in several others I have seen.

As mentioned above Nick, they may not necessarily grow any taller, but
the volume of the plant, thickness of the stems etc seems to be much
greater. Comparing plants that have been established for 8 or 10
years and a good many of the superbas seem to have the sturdier
growth. I suppose it is how you classify vigour - for me height is
only one part of the equation.

Well, the heaviest growth that I have seen (by far) was C. speciosa,
and my C. speciosa has 1"+ stems, very closely packed.

Bean also agrees with me about C. x superba having low, straggling
growth up to about 5' (like "Crimson and Gold") and says that the
same is true of "Knap Hill Scarlet". Possibly, the growth pattern
of the two species/cross depend a lot on conditions.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.