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Fence post holes
I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts
shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground). Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post holes. The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete round a 4" post? Alternatively there's those long handled digger/scooper things (£20) but I find it hard to visualize these being particularly helpful. Anyone have experiences to share? cheers, G.A. |
In article , "Glen Able" writes: | I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts | shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until | Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground). | | Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing | adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post | holes. | | The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole | would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete | round a 4" post? What you you want to set them in concrete for? The only useful way to use concrete is as a collar in the top 6" - if the soil is packed down around the post, the bottom will not shift. And concrete the whole way down makes them a real pain to remove. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , "Glen Able" writes: | I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts | shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until | Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground). | | Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing | adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post | holes. | | The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole | would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete | round a 4" post? What you you want to set them in concrete for? The only useful way to use concrete is as a collar in the top 6" - if the soil is packed down around the post, the bottom will not shift. And concrete the whole way down makes them a real pain to remove. Well, I was actually asking for people's experiences of the hole digging tools (anyone?) but ok, I'm up for a critical look at the concrete issue :) From my browsing, it certainly seems that the majority of sources seem to think that concrete is somehow the 'proper way' to do things, but I've not seen anything to convince me it's actually necessary. Having thought about the mechanics of it, I guess you can't simply say that soil can't hold a post firm, because even if you concrete the whole thing, you're effectively just making the post fatter and then relying on the surrounding soil to hold it - although the increased size would mean you'd be putting less pressure on the soil. If you do just pack the hole with soil, won't it be a bit weak near the surface where the soil can easily move outwards? Which might let the post start to wobble, even if it is held firmly at the bottom. Is this why you suggest a concrete 'collar', or is that intended to keep water off? cheers, G.A. |
In article ,
Glen Able wrote: From my browsing, it certainly seems that the majority of sources seem to think that concrete is somehow the 'proper way' to do things, but I've not seen anything to convince me it's actually necessary. It isn't. It isn't even desirable when you want to plant climbers to grow up the posts. Having thought about the mechanics of it, I guess you can't simply say that soil can't hold a post firm, because even if you concrete the whole thing, you're effectively just making the post fatter and then relying on the surrounding soil to hold it - although the increased size would mean you'd be putting less pressure on the soil. Yup. If you do just pack the hole with soil, won't it be a bit weak near the surface where the soil can easily move outwards? Which might let the post start to wobble, even if it is held firmly at the bottom. Is this why you suggest a concrete 'collar', or is that intended to keep water off? Yup. With no collar, you need to embed the post slightly deeper. Keeping the water off is fairly marginal, because most places in the UK have 4 months when everything at soil level is effectively saturated yet it is warm enough for fungi and bacteria to thrive. That is when you really need the timber treatment. Keeping water off the top is more valuable, because you can stop it running into the end grain. I don't know of any proper experiments to see if it helps - some people think that it does, and others disagree. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Janet Baraclough wrote:
[...] In deep loam, a post with a point tip can be rammed in with a sledgehammer (use a protector on the top surface of the post to avoid splits). In stony compacted ground, where a hand augur would be useless anyway, use a pinch-bar (to loosen soil) and narrow blade spade (to get it out). Deepest sections are done lying on the ground, whole arm down hole, wielding a catfood tin or similar :-) [...] I've always used a crowbar to make a pilot hole so the post stays straight when driven in with the sledge-hammer. There's a kind of post driver which looks very good for those who aren't used to the big hammer, but I don't know what it's called: a sort of sleeve goes over the top of the post, and you slide a ram thing up and down using both hands. Very safe, too: I once recommended it to a blind conservation group. It may be in hire shops. Mike. |
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... The message from "Glen Able" contains these words: The only fenceposts that we set in concrete, are tall HD posts which are going to carry tall trellis or screening which will be subjected to heavy wind-load, ie, offer serious resistance to 70+mph winds. Or, Blimey - how tall is your trellis? Lower level fence posts don't need concrete (far better not, it's a curse if you ever have to move a post later, for instance putting in a gate or letting down a fence temporarily for machine access). In deep loam, a post with a point tip can be rammed in with a sledgehammer (use a protector on the top surface of the post to avoid splits). In stony compacted ground, where a hand augur would be useless anyway, use a pinch-bar (to loosen soil) and narrow blade spade (to get it out). Deepest sections are done lying on the ground, whole arm down hole, wielding a catfood tin or similar :-) It's not stony, but I don't think it's ever been cultivated where the fence is to go (found a few old pennies), and it is heavy and compacted. I've dug a few holes for trellis etc. and I find it tiresome (trowel and flowerpot for scooping) and rough on my delicate computer programmer hands - wearing gloves is also annoying as loose soil drops into them and compacts into indestructible solid plugs in the fingertips :) Actually, my main concern about getting an auger ('augur' is a sign, btw) was that I've heard them described as useless, but I guess from what you say that they're probably dealing with stony ground. Another tool I found for this sort of thing is on amazon - http://tinyurl.com/5xk9b No idea if they're any use at all. HTH Yes, thank you. |
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , "Glen Able" writes: | I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts | shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until | Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground). | | Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing | adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post | holes. | | The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole | would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete | round a 4" post? What you you want to set them in concrete for? The only useful way to use concrete is as a collar in the top 6" - if the soil is packed down around the post, the bottom will not shift. And concrete the whole way down makes them a real pain to remove. One last thought, Nick - do you have any particular method/favourite tools for packing the soil down? cheers, G.A. |
In article , Janet Baraclough writes: | | Seriously, I use whichever of my feet, a trowel or a spade that is | most convenient. | | Well you must be making wide holes, or have very long thin legs:-) | Refilling should be tamped down a bit at a time to get it solid (fill | 6", tamp, another 6", tamp etc). For tamping deep in the hole I use a | (strong) strip of old plank. Actually, you are right. I can't imagine why I had forgotten what I do, unless it is a combination of old age and substance abuse! Yes, of course I do tamp the soil with more than a trowel (which is what I was thinking of) - or I certainly did last time. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:59:31 -0000, "Glen Able"
wrote: I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground). Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post holes. The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete round a 4" post? Alternatively there's those long handled digger/scooper things (£20) but I find it hard to visualize these being particularly helpful. Anyone have experiences to share? cheers, G.A. I'd echo Janet's comments. I use a pick-axe head removed from its handle to loosen the soil at the bottom of the hole and dig it out with a trowel, lying flat on the ground for the deepest holes. Sometimes I use a very useful grab-thing that I have, which has five flexible grippers on the end. Had it for as long as I can remember...... -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
If you want your fence to outlive you then I would always use concrete posts
rather than wooden ones, more expensive initially but worth the extra in terms of longevity. -- Brian --------------------------------------------- www.ashnookplants.co.uk "Glen Able" wrote in message ... I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground). Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post holes. The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete round a 4" post? Alternatively there's those long handled digger/scooper things (£20) but I find it hard to visualize these being particularly helpful. Anyone have experiences to share? cheers, G.A. |
In article , ashnook
wrote: If you want your fence to outlive you then I would always use concrete posts rather than wooden ones, more expensive initially but worth the extra in terms of longevity. Ugly, though. Give me timber every time. At least it's organic and can claim to be in harmony with the landscape... unless you live under a flyover. Simon |
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... In article , ashnook wrote: If you want your fence to outlive you then I would always use concrete posts rather than wooden ones, more expensive initially but worth the extra in terms of longevity. Ugly, though. Give me timber every time. At least it's organic and can claim to be in harmony with the landscape... unless you live under a flyover. I'm surprised no-one's mentioned metposts yet. These are a steel socket which the fence post slots into. They are expensive to originally install but much less trouble later. You don't have to dig out a huge lump of concrete every few years, and the disruption to the garden is minimal. They come in types which have lugs/flanges in the socket which grip the post, or ones with a bolt so it can be tightened onto the post. I acquired a mixed bag of them quite by chance some years ago, and they have each outlasted several posts. Steve |
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