I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts
shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until
Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground).

Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing
adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post
holes.

The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole
would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete
round a 4" post?

Alternatively there's those long handled digger/scooper things (£20) but I
find it hard to visualize these being particularly helpful.

Anyone have experiences to share?

cheers,
G.A.

In article ,
"Glen Able" writes:
| I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts
| shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until
| Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground).
|
| Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing
| adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post
| holes.
|
| The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole
| would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete
| round a 4" post?

What you you want to set them in concrete for? The only useful
way to use concrete is as a collar in the top 6" - if the soil
is packed down around the post, the bottom will not shift. And
concrete the whole way down makes them a real pain to remove.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Glen Able" writes:
| I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts
| shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so
until
| Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground).
|
| Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing
| adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging
post
| holes.
|
| The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting
hole
| would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete
| round a 4" post?

What you you want to set them in concrete for? The only useful
way to use concrete is as a collar in the top 6" - if the soil
is packed down around the post, the bottom will not shift. And
concrete the whole way down makes them a real pain to remove.

Well, I was actually asking for people's experiences of the hole digging
tools (anyone?) but ok, I'm up for a critical look at the concrete issue

From my browsing, it certainly seems that the majority of sources seem to
think that concrete is somehow the 'proper way' to do things, but I've not
seen anything to convince me it's actually necessary.

Having thought about the mechanics of it, I guess you can't simply say that
soil can't hold a post firm, because even if you concrete the whole thing,
you're effectively just making the post fatter and then relying on the
surrounding soil to hold it - although the increased size would mean you'd
be putting less pressure on the soil.

If you do just pack the hole with soil, won't it be a bit weak near the
surface where the soil can easily move outwards? Which might let the post
start to wobble, even if it is held firmly at the bottom. Is this why you
suggest a concrete 'collar', or is that intended to keep water off?

cheers,
G.A.

In article ,
Glen Able wrote:

From my browsing, it certainly seems that the majority of sources seem to
think that concrete is somehow the 'proper way' to do things, but I've not
seen anything to convince me it's actually necessary.

It isn't. It isn't even desirable when you want to plant climbers
to grow up the posts.

Having thought about the mechanics of it, I guess you can't simply say that
soil can't hold a post firm, because even if you concrete the whole thing,
you're effectively just making the post fatter and then relying on the
surrounding soil to hold it - although the increased size would mean you'd
be putting less pressure on the soil.

Yup.

If you do just pack the hole with soil, won't it be a bit weak near the
surface where the soil can easily move outwards? Which might let the post
start to wobble, even if it is held firmly at the bottom. Is this why you
suggest a concrete 'collar', or is that intended to keep water off?

Yup. With no collar, you need to embed the post slightly deeper.

Keeping the water off is fairly marginal, because most places in the
UK have 4 months when everything at soil level is effectively saturated
yet it is warm enough for fungi and bacteria to thrive. That is when
you really need the timber treatment. Keeping water off the top is
more valuable, because you can stop it running into the end grain.

I don't know of any proper experiments to see if it helps - some
people think that it does, and others disagree.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
[...]
In deep loam, a post with a point tip can be rammed in with a
sledgehammer (use a protector on the top surface of the post to
avoid
splits). In stony compacted ground, where a hand augur would be
useless anyway, use a pinch-bar (to loosen soil) and narrow blade
spade (to get it out). Deepest sections are done lying on the
ground,
whole arm down hole, wielding a catfood tin or similar :-)
[...]

I've always used a crowbar to make a pilot hole so the post stays
straight when driven in with the sledge-hammer. There's a kind of
post driver which looks very good for those who aren't used to the
big hammer, but I don't know what it's called: a sort of sleeve goes
over the top of the post, and you slide a ram thing up and down using
both hands. Very safe, too: I once recommended it to a blind
conservation group. It may be in hire shops.

Mike.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Glen Able" contains these words:


The only fenceposts that we set in concrete, are tall HD posts which
are going to carry tall trellis or screening which will be subjected to
heavy wind-load, ie, offer serious resistance to 70+mph winds. Or,

Blimey - how tall is your trellis?


Lower level fence posts don't need concrete (far better not, it's a
curse if you ever have to move a post later, for instance putting in a
gate or letting down a fence temporarily for machine access).

In deep loam, a post with a point tip can be rammed in with a
sledgehammer (use a protector on the top surface of the post to avoid
splits). In stony compacted ground, where a hand augur would be useless
anyway, use a pinch-bar (to loosen soil) and narrow blade spade (to get
it out). Deepest sections are done lying on the ground, whole arm down
hole, wielding a catfood tin or similar :-)

It's not stony, but I don't think it's ever been cultivated where the fence
is to go (found a few old pennies), and it is heavy and compacted. I've dug
a few holes for trellis etc. and I find it tiresome (trowel and flowerpot
for scooping) and rough on my delicate computer programmer hands - wearing
gloves is also annoying as loose soil drops into them and compacts into
indestructible solid plugs in the fingertips

Actually, my main concern about getting an auger ('augur' is a sign, btw)
was that I've heard them described as useless, but I guess from what you say
that they're probably dealing with stony ground.

Another tool I found for this sort of thing is on amazon -
http://tinyurl.com/5xk9b
No idea if they're any use at all.

HTH

Yes, thank you.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Glen Able" writes:
| I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts
| shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so
until
| Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground).
|
| Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing
| adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging
post
| holes.
|
| The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting
hole
| would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete
| round a 4" post?

What you you want to set them in concrete for? The only useful
way to use concrete is as a collar in the top 6" - if the soil
is packed down around the post, the bottom will not shift. And
concrete the whole way down makes them a real pain to remove.

One last thought, Nick - do you have any particular method/favourite tools
for packing the soil down?

cheers,
G.A.

In article ,
Janet Baraclough writes:
|
| Seriously, I use whichever of my feet, a trowel or a spade that is
| most convenient.
|
| Well you must be making wide holes, or have very long thin legs:-)
| Refilling should be tamped down a bit at a time to get it solid (fill
| 6", tamp, another 6", tamp etc). For tamping deep in the hole I use a
| (strong) strip of old plank.

Actually, you are right. I can't imagine why I had forgotten what
I do, unless it is a combination of old age and substance abuse!
Yes, of course I do tamp the soil with more than a trowel (which
is what I was thinking of) - or I certainly did last time.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:59:31 -0000, "Glen Able"
wrote:

I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts
shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so until
Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground).

Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing
adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post
holes.

The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole
would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete
round a 4" post?

Alternatively there's those long handled digger/scooper things (£20) but I
find it hard to visualize these being particularly helpful.

Anyone have experiences to share?

cheers,
G.A.

I'd echo Janet's comments. I use a pick-axe head removed from its
handle to loosen the soil at the bottom of the hole and dig it out
with a trowel, lying flat on the ground for the deepest holes.
Sometimes I use a very useful grab-thing that I have, which has five
flexible grippers on the end. Had it for as long as I can
remember......


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

If you want your fence to outlive you then I would always use concrete posts
rather than wooden ones, more expensive initially but worth the extra in
terms of longevity.

--
Brian
---------------------------------------------
www.ashnookplants.co.uk
"Glen Able" wrote in message
...
I guess it's a good time to put up fences now before everything starts
shooting up and getting in the way (actually, might wait a month or so
until
Buddleias etc. get razed to the ground).

Anyway, I anticipate living a long and rich life full of DIY fencing
adventures, so I'm interested in getting tools to help with digging post
holes.

The 6" diameter hand augers (£70) look useful. I guess the resulting hole
would be good for 3" posts, but would it let you get in enough concrete
round a 4" post?

Alternatively there's those long handled digger/scooper things (£20) but I
find it hard to visualize these being particularly helpful.

Anyone have experiences to share?

cheers,
G.A.

In article , ashnook
wrote:

If you want your fence to outlive you then I would always use concrete posts
rather than wooden ones, more expensive initially but worth the extra in
terms of longevity.

Ugly, though. Give me timber every time. At least it's organic and can
claim to be in harmony with the landscape... unless you live under a
flyover.

Simon

"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...
In article , ashnook
wrote:

If you want your fence to outlive you then I would always use concrete
posts
rather than wooden ones, more expensive initially but worth the extra in
terms of longevity.

Ugly, though. Give me timber every time. At least it's organic and can
claim to be in harmony with the landscape... unless you live under a
flyover.

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned metposts yet. These are a steel socket
which the fence post slots into. They are expensive to originally install
but much less trouble later. You don't have to dig out a huge lump of
concrete every few years, and the disruption to the garden is minimal. They
come in types which have lugs/flanges in the socket which grip the post, or
ones with a bolt so it can be tightened onto the post.

I acquired a mixed bag of them quite by chance some years ago, and they have
each outlasted several posts.

Steve