how to turn alkaline soil to acidic
I would like opinions on whether an application of sulphur will turn soil to
acidic or not. Does it work and are their any side effects? Alex |
On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:40:53 GMT, "Alex Woodward"
wrote: I would like opinions on whether an application of sulphur will turn soil to acidic or not. Does it work and are their any side effects? I've never used sulphur, but..... A soil is alkaline nearly always because of the its mineral content, usually chalk (aka lime). Some soils only contain a small amount of chalk and are mildly alkaline (say pH 7 - 7.5), while other types contain large amounts of chalk and are, relatively speaking, strongly alkaline (say pH 7.5 and above). As long as there is free chalk in the soil, it will be alkaline. In order to make the soil acid, you have to dissolve or otherwise remove the chalk. This is not a simple undertaking. A mildly alkaline soil can be made a little less so by adding lots of organic matter as peat or compost. As the organic matter rots down, it liberates acids that will temporarily lower the acidity of the soil. But unless you regularly add more compost etc. the soil will eventually revert to its mildly alkaline state. Over many years, repeated application of compost may bring about a more-or-less permanent change in the alkalinity. Sulphur works in a way similar to compost, in that it slowly oxidises in the air and releases sulphur acids (sulphurous and sulphuric, mostly the former) into the soil. But eventually the sulphur will be used up and a repeat application will be necessary, but how long this takes, I don't know. How long is a piece of string? The biggest problem with alkaline soils is that certain trace elements are immobilised by the alkaline conditions, so cannot be taken up by plants in sufficient quantity for their needs. Iron is the obvious trace element here, but availability of manganese can also be a problem. Ericaceous plants (rhododendrons, azaleas, camellias, some heathers) have a high demand for iron and cannot flourish on alkaline soils without help, whereas other plants with a more modest requirement can grow very well. But iron and manganese can be supplied artificially in a complexed form that ericaceous plants can absorb, when it remains mobile in the soil and can be taken up by the roots. There are several fertilisers available in garden centres that contain these complexed trace elements. Look for ones particularly formulated for ericaceous plants, or containing sequestered or complexed iron and manganese. But one application has only a limited life, and you have to re-apply at regular intervals. Some of these fertilisers claim to acidify the soil: it is highly unlikely that they do (but I've never actually done any tests). But they will allow you to grow acid loving plants on an alkaline soil, and their claims about changing the acidity are just the product of an over-zealous marketing department! For a mildly alkaline soil, I'd go for the complexed trace element route with lots of extra compost, rather than adding sulphur. If you're on a heavy chalk soil, you're really trying to push water uphill. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
"Alex Woodward" wrote in message ... :I would like opinions on whether an application of sulphur will turn soil to : acidic or not. Does it work and are their any side effects? : : Alex : I used sulphur tablets under my camellia. Not sure if it worked and I'm still not sure if it was that ,that made it lose a lot of leaves. They soon came back again but just a word of warning that it may have side effects |
"Alex Woodward" wrote in message ... I would like opinions on whether an application of sulphur will turn soil to acidic or not. Does it work and are their any side effects? Don't wate your time or money. If you try to fight against nature - nature will win every time. Grow thing that thrive in your soil. If you want to grow acid lovers, plant them in containers with the approprite soil. -- Regards, Alan. Preserve wildlife - Pickle a SQUIRREL to reply. |
|
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:40:53 GMT, "Alex Woodward" wrote: I would like opinions on whether an application of sulphur will turn soil to acidic or not. Does it work and are their any side effects? I've never used sulphur, but..... A soil is alkaline nearly always because of the its mineral content, usually chalk (aka lime). Some soils only contain a small amount of chalk and are mildly alkaline (say pH 7 - 7.5), while other types contain large amounts of chalk and are, relatively speaking, strongly alkaline (say pH 7.5 and above). As long as there is free chalk in the soil, it will be alkaline. In order to make the soil acid, you have to dissolve or otherwise remove the chalk. This is not a simple undertaking. A mildly alkaline soil can be made a little less so by adding lots of organic matter as peat or compost. As the organic matter rots down, it liberates acids that will temporarily lower the acidity of the soil. But unless you regularly add more compost etc. the soil will eventually revert to its mildly alkaline state. Over many years, repeated application of compost may bring about a more-or-less permanent change in the alkalinity. Sulphur works in a way similar to compost, in that it slowly oxidises in the air and releases sulphur acids (sulphurous and sulphuric, mostly the former) into the soil. But eventually the sulphur will be used up and a repeat application will be necessary, but how long this takes, I don't know. How long is a piece of string? The biggest problem with alkaline soils is that certain trace elements are immobilised by the alkaline conditions, so cannot be taken up by plants in sufficient quantity for their needs. Iron is the obvious trace element here, but availability of manganese can also be a problem. Ericaceous plants (rhododendrons, azaleas, camellias, some heathers) have a high demand for iron and cannot flourish on alkaline soils without help, whereas other plants with a more modest requirement can grow very well. But iron and manganese can be supplied artificially in a complexed form that ericaceous plants can absorb, when it remains mobile in the soil and can be taken up by the roots. There are several fertilisers available in garden centres that contain these complexed trace elements. Look for ones particularly formulated for ericaceous plants, or containing sequestered or complexed iron and manganese. But one application has only a limited life, and you have to re-apply at regular intervals. Some of these fertilisers claim to acidify the soil: it is highly unlikely that they do (but I've never actually done any tests). But they will allow you to grow acid loving plants on an alkaline soil, and their claims about changing the acidity are just the product of an over-zealous marketing department! For a mildly alkaline soil, I'd go for the complexed trace element route with lots of extra compost, rather than adding sulphur. If you're on a heavy chalk soil, you're really trying to push water uphill. .. You've given me lots of information to absorb there Chris - many thanks! I planted a number of Heathers last June. They range from winter to Summer flowering. I am fairly certain some are supposed to be tolerant to alkaline soils, but quite a few have started to wither away. They have been planted in a clay soil, but I've mixed peat and an alternative ericaceous compost to improve it. The bed itself is on a small incline, so it drains quite well. Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. Alex |
In article , Alex Woodward
writes Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. You can get some idea by what grows around. Do neighbours grow rhododendrons, for example, and what are your commonest weeds? -- Kay "Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river" |
Kay wrote:
In article , Alex Woodward writes Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. You can get some idea by what grows around. Do neighbours grow rhododendrons, for example, and what are your commonest weeds? What she said. Don't bother with soil-testing kits: for many people they're just a waste of money. If there are signs of alkaline soil, when you buy heaths and heathers, always ask the seller if they're lime-tolerant: the winter-flowering ones (Ericas carnea and darleyensis) are particularly handy. Never buy a Calluna variety: they're the real heathers, and can't eat lime. Needless to say, decline with thanks and go somewhere else if the dealer won't or can't tell you. If you think of them as tiny shrubs, it helps generate the patience you may need: they don't grow all that quickly, so as long as they're looking healthy you're probably doing the right thing. I like them in groups of half a dozen or more of the same variety, not too crowded; but that's just me. Mike. |
On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:03:47 GMT, "Alex Woodward"
wrote: I planted a number of Heathers last June. They range from winter to Summer flowering. I am fairly certain some are supposed to be tolerant to alkaline soils, but quite a few have started to wither away. They have been planted in a clay soil, but I've mixed peat and an alternative ericaceous compost to improve it. The bed itself is on a small incline, so it drains quite well. Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. Chris has pretty well covered it. The problem you're having seems to be very similar to what we're seeing here in a bed of winter flowering (lime tolerant heathers)planted in similar conditions to yours. I'm suspecting a water borne fungal infection with ours, such as Phytophthora cinnamomi - this is a root rot often carried by irrigation water on nursery standing beds, so depending on how your plants were grown they could have come to you already infected. In our case it's exacerbated by less than perfect drainage. This is just a guess on my part with minimal evidence so it's no reason to go accusing the nursery. With ours some of the roots weren't good when we got them and having seen the nursery's production beds I'm prepared to believe that is a possible cause. ================================================= Rod Weed my email address to reply. http://website.lineone.net/~rodcraddock/index.html |
"Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. You can get some idea by what grows around. Do neighbours grow rhododendrons, for example, and what are your commonest weeds? My nearest neighbour has grown heathers quite successfully over a three year period. Though I can't remember seeing any of them withering during their first year, unlike mine. However, my neighbours are south facing while mine get a couple of hours of sun on a north facing bed. Alex |
"Rod" wrote in message ... On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:03:47 GMT, "Alex Woodward" wrote: I planted a number of Heathers last June. They range from winter to Summer flowering. I am fairly certain some are supposed to be tolerant to alkaline soils, but quite a few have started to wither away. They have been planted in a clay soil, but I've mixed peat and an alternative ericaceous compost to improve it. The bed itself is on a small incline, so it drains quite well. Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. Chris has pretty well covered it. The problem you're having seems to be very similar to what we're seeing here in a bed of winter flowering (lime tolerant heathers)planted in similar conditions to yours. I'm suspecting a water borne fungal infection with ours, such as Phytophthora cinnamomi - this is a root rot often carried by irrigation water on nursery standing beds, so depending on how your plants were grown they could have come to you already infected. In our case it's exacerbated by less than perfect drainage. This is just a guess on my part with minimal evidence so it's no reason to go accusing the nursery. With ours some of the roots weren't good when we got them and having seen the nursery's production beds I'm prepared to believe that is a possible cause. ================================================= I've just had a look at the roots of one and I've spotted what looks like small yellow shell like eggs in the roots system. When crushed there is a whitish substance inside. They are no bigger than 1mm in diameter, maybe a touch smaller. Any ideas what they may be - and should I be worried? Alex |
In article , Alex Woodward
writes "Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. You can get some idea by what grows around. Do neighbours grow rhododendrons, for example, and what are your commonest weeds? My nearest neighbour has grown heathers quite successfully over a three year period. Flowering all year, or just the winter ones? Have you asked the neighbour whether they are erica or Calluna? Though I can't remember seeing any of them withering during their first year, unlike mine. However, my neighbours are south facing while mine get a couple of hours of sun on a north facing bed. Ours are growing happily on the N side of the house, with early morning and late evening sun in summer, and no sun between Sep and March -- Kay "Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river" |
In article , Alex Woodward
writes I've just had a look at the roots of one and I've spotted what looks like small yellow shell like eggs in the roots system. When crushed there is a whitish substance inside. They are no bigger than 1mm in diameter, may Slow release fertiliser pellets? -- Kay "Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river" |
"Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes "Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. You can get some idea by what grows around. Do neighbours grow rhododendrons, for example, and what are your commonest weeds? My nearest neighbour has grown heathers quite successfully over a three year period. Flowering all year, or just the winter ones? Have you asked the neighbour whether they are erica or Calluna? Well, they are flowering now so I guess they must be the winter/spring variety. Though I can't remember seeing any of them withering during their first year, unlike mine. However, my neighbours are south facing while mine get a couple of hours of sun on a north facing bed. Ours are growing happily on the N side of the house, with early morning and late evening sun in summer, and no sun between Sep and March Pretty much the same conditions as mine are experiencing by the looks of it. I think that must eliminate that issue at least. Thanks. Alex |
"Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes I've just had a look at the roots of one and I've spotted what looks like small yellow shell like eggs in the roots system. When crushed there is a whitish substance inside. They are no bigger than 1mm in diameter, may Slow release fertiliser pellets? I have absolutely no idea, if they are I certainly did not feed them. Having said that, when I initially planted them last year I gave them a small dose of 'growmore' and are small white solid grains. Alex |
"Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes I've just had a look at the roots of one and I've spotted what looks like small yellow shell like eggs in the roots system. When crushed there is a whitish substance inside. They are no bigger than 1mm in diameter, may Slow release fertiliser pellets? I've just been informed by a member of the family that they may be 'earwig' eggs. Sure enough, a quick search on the internet gave the following picture. They certainly look very similar, thought the eggs that I have seen look a darker shade of yellow. http://www.arkive.org/species/ARK/in...ml?size=medium Will they eat and destroy the roots when they hatch? Alex |
In article , Alex Woodward
writes "Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes I've just had a look at the roots of one and I've spotted what looks like small yellow shell like eggs in the roots system. When crushed there is a whitish substance inside. They are no bigger than 1mm in diameter, may Slow release fertiliser pellets? I have absolutely no idea, if they are I certainly did not feed them. Having said that, when I initially planted them last year I gave them a small dose of 'growmore' and are small white solid grains. Many growers use fertiliser with slow release food pellets added. If they were in the soil when you planted them out, then they would be in amongst the roots now. They fit the description. I think that's a lot more likely than earwig eggs. And they're most certainly not snail or slug eggs. -- Kay "Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river" |
In article , Alex Woodward
writes "Kay" wrote in message ... Flowering all year, or just the winter ones? Have you asked the neighbour whether they are erica or Calluna? Well, they are flowering now so I guess they must be the winter/spring variety. From what Rod was saying, likely to be lime tolerant ones then. Can you grow any of pernettya, gaultheria, skimmia? Do you have any evergreen plants whose leaves are going a sickly yellow? Are there any hydrangeas around? - do they tend to have pink flowers or blue? -- Kay "Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river" |
On 7/3/05 19:48, in article , "Alex
Woodward" wrote: "Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes I've just had a look at the roots of one and I've spotted what looks like small yellow shell like eggs in the roots system. When crushed there is a whitish substance inside. They are no bigger than 1mm in diameter, may Slow release fertiliser pellets? I have absolutely no idea, if they are I certainly did not feed them. Having said that, when I initially planted them last year I gave them a small dose of 'growmore' and are small white solid grains. I think that Kay is correct and that these are the slow release fertiliser pellets many nurseries use. It's mixed in with the compost and a lot of people think they're something sinister rather than something helpful. But if you're still worried, why don't you take one of the pellets back to the place you bought the plants from and check with them? -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the weeds to email me) |
"Kay" wrote in message ... In article , Alex Woodward writes "Kay" wrote in message ... Flowering all year, or just the winter ones? Have you asked the neighbour whether they are erica or Calluna? Well, they are flowering now so I guess they must be the winter/spring variety. From what Rod was saying, likely to be lime tolerant ones then. Can you grow any of pernettya, gaultheria, skimmia? Do you have any evergreen plants whose leaves are going a sickly yellow? Are there any hydrangeas around? - do they tend to have pink flowers or blue? We have tried to grow a white flowering climbing hydrangea without success. Initially it bloomed in a pot, but once in the ground - it gave up! We have many evergreen shrubs that have no problem growing, particularly tall conifers. Indeed, a large part of the garden is based around a shrubbery. Most of this was planted last year, but everything appears great at the moment - with the exception of the juniper I talk about below. I planted a 'juniper golden carpet variety' in the autumn last year and though the leaves still appear green, some at the very bottom have turned dry and appear to have died. I still believe it is ok though, since I think it is probably more to do with the fact that it has not had time to establish properly considering I only planted it last autumn. Something has just occured to me. We have very 'limy' tap water that I used to help establish the heathers. What an idiot! I bet I've damaged them myself. What an idiot. Alex |
On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:03:47 GMT, "Alex Woodward"
wrote: . You've given me lots of information to absorb there Chris - many thanks! I planted a number of Heathers last June. They range from winter to Summer flowering. I am fairly certain some are supposed to be tolerant to alkaline soils, but quite a few have started to wither away. They have been planted in a clay soil, but I've mixed peat and an alternative ericaceous compost to improve it. The bed itself is on a small incline, so it drains quite well. Perhaps I should give them more time to establish, or do you think there is a problem with the soil? I have to admit I have not tested the ph level of the soil - which is an obvious mistake I suppose. Alex As a rule of thumb, winter and spring flowering heathers are lime tolerant, while summer and autumn flowering ones like an acid soil. Clay soils can be acid or alkaline, depending on whether there's chalk present. As Kay said, see if your neighbours are growing heathers or rhododendrons etc. to get an idea what your soil is like. Simpler than a pH test. If the tiny leaves of your heathers are going yellow, then they may be becoming chlorotic due to alkaline soil, but there could also be other reasons. Heathers like a peaty soil, so you did the right thing there, but I don't understand why they should be withering. Sounds like a problem at/with the roots. Heathers from a g/c or nursery are often potted into a very peaty compost which is very difficult to wet if it dries out and shrinks, and the roots of the heather may not be able to get established into the surrounding soil. Did you water them in when you planted them? Have they dried out at any stage since you planted them? Have they been exposed to cold, drying winds? (Over the last week or so, what hasn't!). You say they're on a slight slope, so it doesn't sound as if they would be waterlogged, but it is another possible cause of root failure. I'm not convinced it's a chalk/lime problem, but can't really offer a good answer as to what is wrong. I guess you'll just have to hope they pick up in the spring. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:02 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter