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Ownership of fence
My garden adjoins a field and I would like to determine ownership of
the fence which divides us. The field is unregistered land but belongs to someone in London who rents it out as a paddock. The tenant doesn't know who owns the fence won't give me any further information about her landlord - who hasn't visited the place in 30 years by all accounts. The fence struts and battens are on my side. Is that proof that the fence doesn't belong to me? Presumably not since if I had a front garden fence, the battens would also be on the inside. So is it proof that I do own the fence? |
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... My garden adjoins a field and I would like to determine ownership of the fence which divides us. The field is unregistered land but belongs to someone in London who rents it out as a paddock. The tenant doesn't know who owns the fence won't give me any further information about her landlord - who hasn't visited the place in 30 years by all accounts. The fence struts and battens are on my side. Is that proof that the fence doesn't belong to me? Presumably not since if I had a front garden fence, the battens would also be on the inside. So is it proof that I do own the fence? I would suspect the only real way of knowing is to have your land surveyed to establish the boundery lines... me thinks anything witin those boundery lines is yours regardless of who put the fence up . H |
Stan The Man wrote:
My garden adjoins a field and I would like to determine ownership of the fence which divides us. The field is unregistered land but belongs to someone in London who rents it out as a paddock. The tenant doesn't know who owns the fence won't give me any further information about her landlord - who hasn't visited the place in 30 years by all accounts. The fence struts and battens are on my side. Is that proof that the fence doesn't belong to me? Presumably not since if I had a front garden fence, the battens would also be on the inside. So is it proof that I do own the fence? 1) What does it say on your deeds? This should be a good indication. 2) What of any other property adjoining the field? Is the fence of one type and construction all along? 3) The fact that the "fence struts and battens" are on your side tends to indicate that the fence is yours, but is in no way proof. |
"Chris Bacon" wrote in message ... Stan The Man wrote: snip 3) The fact that the "fence struts and battens" are on your side tends to indicate that the fence is yours, but is in no way proof. Very true. Last year, one of my neighbours replaced the fence on the side of her garden furthest away from my property. Her contractor had installed a couple of the panels in the customary orientation, i.e. with struts and battens on the owner's (i.e. neighbour's) side, when she had a heated discussion with him, ordering him to turn the panels round so the 'fair' side faced into her garden. The contractor explained the convention, and went on to point out I had followed it, so the fair side on the boundary between our gardens faced onto her garden. "That's nothing to do with me, more fool him," she said, insisting on having the fence pointing the 'wrong' way round. I'm going to have to replace some more of the fencing on 'her' border soon - you can guess which way round it's going to face ... |
BAC wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote... 3) The fact that the "fence struts and battens" are on your side tends to indicate that the fence is yours, but is in no way proof. Very true. Last year, one of my neighbours replaced the fence on the side of her garden furthest away from my property. Her contractor had installed a couple of the panels in the customary orientation, i.e. with struts and battens on the owner's (i.e. neighbour's) side, when she had a heated discussion with him, ordering him to turn the panels round so the 'fair' side faced into her garden. The contractor explained the convention, and went on to point out I had followed it, so the fair side on the boundary between our gardens faced onto her garden. "That's nothing to do with me, more fool him," she said, insisting on having the fence pointing the 'wrong' way round. I'm going to have to replace some more of the fencing on 'her' border soon - you can guess which way round it's going to face ... Just pull it down and leave it until a sufficient level of whinging is detected... and then errect a fence with the plain side facing her house, with that side treated to a coat of bright blue "preservative", or traffic-light colours.I must say that I actually like fences in my garden done the conventional way... the plain side is to keep people *out*! Did she actually say "more fool him?" How rude! Indicative. |
"BAC" wrote in message ... "Chris Bacon" wrote in message ... Stan The Man wrote: snip 3) The fact that the "fence struts and battens" are on your side tends to indicate that the fence is yours, but is in no way proof. Very true. Last year, one of my neighbours replaced the fence on the side of her garden furthest away from my property. Her contractor had installed a couple of the panels in the customary orientation, i.e. with struts and battens on the owner's (i.e. neighbour's) side, when she had a heated discussion with him, ordering him to turn the panels round so the 'fair' side faced into her garden. The contractor explained the convention, and went on to point out I had followed it, so the fair side on the boundary between our gardens faced onto her garden. "That's nothing to do with me, more fool him," she said, insisting on having the fence pointing the 'wrong' way round. I'm going to have to replace some more of the fencing on 'her' border soon - you can guess which way round it's going to face ... LOL ...I wonder if its possible to get really ugly battens? -- Tumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com |
In article , Janet Baraclough writes: | | I don't know what you mean by "unregistered land" btw..if it's owned, | that ownership has to be registered somewhere? Not in England, it doesn't. Nor, I believe, Scotland. In the former, it was made mandatory to register it when selling it only a few decades ago; I don't know if it has to be if it is left in a will or given away. If it has not been sold in a long time, it may not be registered, but it may still be owned. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
"Nick Maclaren" wrote after Janet wrote: | | I don't know what you mean by "unregistered land" btw..if it's owned, | that ownership has to be registered somewhere? Not in England, it doesn't. Nor, I believe, Scotland. In the former, it was made mandatory to register it when selling it only a few decades ago; I don't know if it has to be if it is left in a will or given away. If it has not been sold in a long time, it may not be registered, but it may still be owned. But if Stan has bought his property in the last few decades then his property will be Registered Land and if he looks at his deeds, or gets a copy from the Land Registry, it will usually show on the plan who owns which fence. That said they do not show exact lines of fences so you cannot use their plans in fence position disputes egg our drive is curved and has been since the house (and Next-door) were built, the Land Certificate shows a straight line. -- Regards Bob In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London |
In article , "Bob Hobden" writes: | | But if Stan has bought his property in the last few decades then his | property will be Registered Land and if he looks at his deeds, or gets a | copy from the Land Registry, it will usually show on the plan who owns which | fence. Er, no. I have been indirectly involved in just such a dispute recently. | That said they do not show exact lines of fences so you cannot use their | plans in fence position disputes egg our drive is curved and has been since | the house (and Next-door) were built, the Land Certificate shows a straight | line. Depending on circumstances, there may be only a plan with a fairly crude boundary. That is usually quite inadequate to show who owns a fence - THAT information is more normally in the deeds or not available. There seems to be no requirement on the precision of the information that is registered, nor indeed that any information is registered other than the boundary and the owner. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , "Bob Hobden" writes: | | But if Stan has bought his property in the last few decades then his | property will be Registered Land and if he looks at his deeds, or gets a | copy from the Land Registry, it will usually show on the plan who owns which | fence. Er, no. I have been indirectly involved in just such a dispute recently. | That said they do not show exact lines of fences so you cannot use their | plans in fence position disputes egg our drive is curved and has been since | the house (and Next-door) were built, the Land Certificate shows a straight | line. Depending on circumstances, there may be only a plan with a fairly crude boundary. That is usually quite inadequate to show who owns a fence - THAT information is more normally in the deeds or not available. There seems to be no requirement on the precision of the information that is registered, nor indeed that any information is registered other than the boundary and the owner. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Though my boundaries are not clearly defined, especially on the South side where they state "to water", and the water point varies, as it dries out in the Summer!. However what is stated I must maintain stock proof fencing on all boundaries. That I believe is common where the property is surrounded by agricultural land. I may be cynical, but perhaps the Renter does not pay rent, and does not wish you to contact them as she is hoping to get squatters rights. What possible reason could she have for not giving you the owners details? |
The message
from Stan The Man contains these words: My garden adjoins a field and I would like to determine ownership of the fence which divides us. The field is unregistered land but belongs to someone in London who rents it out as a paddock. The tenant doesn't know who owns the fence won't give me any further information about her landlord - who hasn't visited the place in 30 years by all accounts. The fence struts and battens are on my side. Is that proof that the fence doesn't belong to me? Presumably not since if I had a front garden fence, the battens would also be on the inside. So is it proof that I do own the fence? In a word, no. You'll have to consult the deeds. They *MAY* help... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
The message
from "Harold Walker" contains these words: I would suspect the only real way of knowing is to have your land surveyed to establish the boundery lines... me thinks anything witin those boundery lines is yours regardless of who put the fence up . H Well, no. Anything on your property is your responsibility unless there is an agreement to the contrary. If a fence is mistakenly (or deliberately) built on your property, you don't automatically have ownership of it. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
The message
from "Tumbleweed" contains these words: LOL ...I wonder if its possible to get really ugly battens? Concrete posts... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Hi Stan, dont quote me on this but i was always under the impression that
whoevers garden the posts are in, the fence belongs to them...... Loraine "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... My garden adjoins a field and I would like to determine ownership of the fence which divides us. The field is unregistered land but belongs to someone in London who rents it out as a paddock. The tenant doesn't know who owns the fence won't give me any further information about her landlord - who hasn't visited the place in 30 years by all accounts. The fence struts and battens are on my side. Is that proof that the fence doesn't belong to me? Presumably not since if I had a front garden fence, the battens would also be on the inside. So is it proof that I do own the fence? |
Victoria Clare wrote:
Some of our border is raised on Cornish banks, and has contracted, slipped and moved about with the earth and rocks. Erm, theyz 'edges, moy loverr, not banks. |
"Broadback" wrote in message ... Nick Maclaren wrote: In article , "Bob Hobden" writes: | Depending on circumstances, there may be only a plan with a fairly crude boundary. That is usually quite inadequate to show who owns a fence - THAT information is more normally in the deeds or not available. There seems to be no requirement on the precision of the information that is registered, nor indeed that any information is registered other than the boundary and the owner. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Though my boundaries are not clearly defined, especially on the South side where they state "to water", and the water point varies, as it dries out in the Summer!. However what is stated I must maintain stock proof fencing on all boundaries. That I believe is common where the property is surrounded by agricultural land. I may be cynical, but perhaps the Renter does not pay rent, and does not wish you to contact them as she is hoping to get squatters rights. What possible reason could she have for not giving you the owners details? It may be that the tenant is responsible for all repairs and maintenance of gates and fences and doesn't want to find out that they have to fix it! The Original posters solicitor should have established who owned which boundaries. A weak point in our system which I think needs correcting, is that the buyer frequently views the property but does not see a copy of the deeds and their solicitor sees the deeds but not the property, a state of affairs which resulted in some friends discovering that they did not own their back garden! -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs) |
No Sir. The first house I owned, the posts were in the neighbour's garden
'cos they were her posts, even though according to law, it was my garden, my posts, my fence etc etc etc, but I understood that they were "hers". Mike -- National Service (RAF) Ass. Cosford 24 - 27 June Spitfire Fly Past H.M.S.Impregnable Ass. Sussex 1 - 4 July Visit to Int. Fest of the Sea RAF Regiment Assoc. Scarborough 2 - 5 Sept. Visit to Eden Camp H.M.S.Collingwood Assn Trafalgar Dinner. Coventry October 21 - 24 "loraine" wrote in message ... Hi Stan, dont quote me on this but i was always under the impression that whoevers garden the posts are in, the fence belongs to them...... Loraine "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... My garden adjoins a field and I would like to determine ownership of the fence which divides us. The field is unregistered land but belongs to someone in London who rents it out as a paddock. The tenant doesn't know who owns the fence won't give me any further information about her landlord - who hasn't visited the place in 30 years by all accounts. The fence struts and battens are on my side. Is that proof that the fence doesn't belong to me? Presumably not since if I had a front garden fence, the battens would also be on the inside. So is it proof that I do own the fence? |
"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message k... The message from "Harold Walker" contains these words: I would suspect the only real way of knowing is to have your land surveyed to establish the boundery lines... me thinks anything witin those boundery lines is yours regardless of who put the fence up . H Well, no. Anything on your property is your responsibility unless there is an agreement to the contrary. If a fence is mistakenly (or deliberately) built on your property, you don't automatically have ownership of it. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ At least one has a right to demand removal....is there such a thinig as "adverse possession" in the UK....if so then anyone that sees such a fence upon their land would be well advised top have it re-located...H |
In article , Chris Bacon
wrote: 1) What does it say on your deeds? This should be a good indication. The only boundary specifically referenced in the deeds is on the opposite side of the garden which adjoins agricultural land and requires me (and the previous owner) to erect and maintain a sheep and cattle-proof post and rail fence. I can't find any reference to the other side...although I recall reading somewhere that most properties only own the fence on one side... 2) What of any other property adjoining the field? Is the fence of one type and construction all along? Nothing else adjoins the paddock. The fence is uniform close boarded timber panels approx 6ft high, and timber posts. The paddock tenant has erected a barbed wire fence within a yard of the wooden fence to stop her horses from contacting/damaging the wooden fence. 3) The fact that the "fence struts and battens" are on your side tends to indicate that the fence is yours, but is in no way proof. |
Stan The Man wrote:
In article , Chris Bacon wrote: 1) What does it say on your deeds? This should be a good indication. The only boundary specifically referenced in the deeds is on the opposite side of the garden which adjoins agricultural land and requires me (and the previous owner) to erect and maintain a sheep and cattle-proof post and rail fence. I can't find any reference to the other side...although I recall reading somewhere that most properties only own the fence on one side... [...] Your solicitor should have checked this in his pre-contract enquiries, I'd have thought. That would mean it must be in writing somewhere. -- Mike. |
Chris Bacon wrote in :
Victoria Clare wrote: Some of our border is raised on Cornish banks, and has contracted, slipped and moved about with the earth and rocks. Erm, theyz 'edges, moy loverr, not banks. 1) Some of the banks have hazel hedges on top: some are bald and grassy: bank is a good word for distinguishing the two. 2) This area was practically depopulated after the failure of mining and decline of the market gardening industry. The proximity of a major railway line, a port, a tourist area and 2 main roads means that the vast majority of the population has lived here for less than a generation, and the linguistic pool is a bit contaminated to say the least. None of my neighbours have been here longer than 13 years. Attempts at local dialect sound a bit daft in such an environment. 3) 'my lover' - surely a South Devon term, not a Cornish one? |
Victoria Clare wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote: Victoria Clare wrote: Some of our border is raised on Cornish banks, and has contracted, slipped and moved about with the earth and rocks. Erm, theyz 'edges, moy loverr, not banks. 1) Some of the banks have hazel hedges on top: some are bald and grassy: bank is a good word for distinguishing the two. A Cornish Hedge is a "wall" of stone and soil - whether there's a hedge, trees or whatever on top! 2) This area was practically depopulated after the failure of mining and decline of the market gardening industry. I wonder very roughly where in Cornwall you are... Penzance? The proximity of a major railway line, a port, a tourist area and 2 main roads means that the vast majority of the population has lived here for less than a generation, and the linguistic pool is a bit contaminated to say the least. None of my neighbours have been here longer than 13 years. Cornwall is greying. I wouldn't say it's to do with the demise of industry so much as the incoming of furriners with money who can pay the price for property - and displace "natives". I shouldn't think that there will be noticable dialect anywhere in - say - 30 years (unless it's from Brimingham or Lunnon). Attempts at local dialect sound a bit daft in such an environment. Sure do, more indeed to those who still speak with an accent. North Cornwall is possibly the last bastion, and few under 30 years old there... 3) 'my lover' - surely a South Devon term, not a Cornish one? Maybe they picked it up from Cornwall. |
In article . 150, Victoria Clare writes: | Chris Bacon wrote in : | | Some of our border is raised on Cornish | banks, and has contracted, slipped and moved about with the earth and | rocks. | | Erm, theyz 'edges, moy loverr, not banks. | | 1) Some of the banks have hazel hedges on top: some are bald and grassy: | bank is a good word for distinguishing the two. They're still stone hedges, my dear. | 2) This area was practically depopulated after the failure of mining and | decline of the market gardening industry. Actually, government policy was the main reason for the depopulation. Whitehall wanted to keep the area depressed so that its second houses were cheap. | 3) 'my lover' - surely a South Devon term, not a Cornish one? Probably. "My love" was the form used, though "my dear" was more common if I recall correctly. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
In article , Chris Bacon writes: | | Cornwall is greying. I wouldn't say it's to do with the demise of | industry so much as the incoming of furriners with money who can | pay the price for property - and displace "natives". I shouldn't | think that there will be noticable dialect anywhere in - say - | 30 years (unless it's from Brimingham or Lunnon). It's already gone. A dialect isn't the same as an accent. When I was last in West Cornwall regularly (c. 1970), there was effectively no trace of the dialect still spoken there in 1950. Television had killed it. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
The message
from "Charlie Pridham" contains these words: It may be that the tenant is responsible for all repairs and maintenance of gates and fences and doesn't want to find out that they have to fix it! The Original posters solicitor should have established who owned which boundaries. A weak point in our system which I think needs correcting, is that the buyer frequently views the property but does not see a copy of the deeds and their solicitor sees the deeds but not the property, a state of affairs which resulted in some friends discovering that they did not own their back garden! Hum. I found the place I'm in now with only a day and a half before the offers were opened, but I made a sensible offer and because there was no chain involved, and no mortgage to obtain, I got it - despite not being the highest bidder. I didn't have a chance to see the deeds and the first my solicitor knew about it was when I told him I'd made the offer. Subsequently, I have found theat the vendor's agent gave me all the information he should have done, and I haven't regretted my precipitate action. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
The message . 150
from Victoria Clare contains these words: Chris Bacon wrote in : Erm, theyz 'edges, moy loverr, not banks. 1) Some of the banks have hazel hedges on top: some are bald and grassy: bank is a good word for distinguishing the two. 2) This area was practically depopulated after the failure of mining and decline of the market gardening industry. The proximity of a major railway line, a port, a tourist area and 2 main roads means that the vast majority of the population has lived here for less than a generation, and the linguistic pool is a bit contaminated to say the least. None of my neighbours have been here longer than 13 years. Attempts at local dialect sound a bit daft in such an environment. 3) 'my lover' - surely a South Devon term, not a Cornish one? He's probably a Grockle innit. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
The message
from Chris Bacon contains these words: Sure do, more indeed to those who still speak with an accent. North Cornwall is possibly the last bastion, and few under 30 years old there... 'Ere! Who are you calling a bastion? I'll have you know that some of my family hails from Launceston! -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
In article ,
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: The message . 150 from Victoria Clare contains these words: 3) 'my lover' - surely a South Devon term, not a Cornish one? He's probably a Grockle innit. That's emmet. Foreigners call them grockles. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article . 150, Victoria Clare writes: [...] 3) 'my lover' - surely a South Devon term, not a Cornish one? Probably. "My love" was the form used, though "my dear" was more common if I recall correctly. I wish I could remember clearly, but I can't actually place "My lover" with any precision -- you could even convince me it was Wilts; but the expression in East Devon, just south of the Moor, was certainly "Mah dearr". As England goes, Devon's a big place. -- Mike. |
In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote: Nick Maclaren wrote: In article . 150, Victoria Clare writes: [...] 3) 'my lover' - surely a South Devon term, not a Cornish one? Probably. "My love" was the form used, though "my dear" was more common if I recall correctly. I wish I could remember clearly, but I can't actually place "My lover" with any precision -- you could even convince me it was Wilts; but the expression in East Devon, just south of the Moor, was certainly "Mah dearr". As England goes, Devon's a big place. I was referring to Cornwall. I have never lived in Devon. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Victoria Clare wrote:
I still don't think my original terminology was in any way unclear though, and as I have lived practically my whole life in houses surrounded by the dratted things, I feel I can call them what I like as long as people know what I mean, which they clearly do. That's how the language changes. To me, if someone said "Cornish bank" I would think of Barclay's or similar. See Mr. Maclaren's post on the disappearence of Cornish accent/dialect/patois, whichever. This helps the speed of change. |
The message
from Sacha contains these words: 'My loverrrr" is certainly Devonian as is 'my maid' and 'my man', though all are rarely heard now, sadly. 'My Man' is oft heard in Norfolk and Suffolk. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
On 3/6/05 10:24 am, in article
, "Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote: The message from Sacha contains these words: 'My loverrrr" is certainly Devonian as is 'my maid' and 'my man', though all are rarely heard now, sadly. 'My Man' is oft heard in Norfolk and Suffolk. Ah but they're very posh counties, and butlers and valets abound! ;-) -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the weeds to email me) |
Sacha wrote:
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: 'My Man' is oft heard in Norfolk and Suffolk. Ah but they're very posh counties, and butlers and valets abound! ;-) ITYM "bounders and varlets". HTH. |
In article , Sacha
writes 'My Man' is oft heard in Norfolk and Suffolk. Ah but they're very posh counties, and butlers and valets abound! ;-) Not in my household, although my husband could always adopt Butler as a middle name. -- Judith Lea |
On 3/6/05 11:55 am, in article , "Chris Bacon"
wrote: Sacha wrote: Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: 'My Man' is oft heard in Norfolk and Suffolk. Ah but they're very posh counties, and butlers and valets abound! ;-) ITYM "bounders and varlets". HTH. Oh, *very* good. ;-) -- Sacha (remove the weeds for email) |
On 3/6/05 12:19 pm, in article , "Judith
Lea" wrote: In article , Sacha writes 'My Man' is oft heard in Norfolk and Suffolk. Ah but they're very posh counties, and butlers and valets abound! ;-) Not in my household, although my husband could always adopt Butler as a middle name. Given your gold slippers, I think 'Parker' would be more suitable for your butler. ;-) -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the weeds to email me) |
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