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Childproofing garden ponds.
Hi everybody - my first post here.
With a 5 month old baby and 2 currently unprotected ponds, one of my jobs for the summer is fairly obvious! Question is, 'how'? My options seem to be: 1. Fill them in, but it would be a shame to lose the associated wildlife. (Even greater shame to lose a toddler though). 2. Fence them in - difficult to do without it becoming unsightly, and in the years to come climbing it would be a challange in itself! 3. Put grid over them, though unfortunately they're rather awkward shapes. Anybody care to share experiences or ideas, or is this covered by an appropriate FAQ? -- Regards Peter Hughes. |
Childproofing garden ponds.
I've seen a product that you can buy to do this. It comes as smallish
plastic grids which are fixed just below the water level. Plants can still grow thru it, it's quite difficult to see, and can easily take the weight of a full grown adult. Not sure what it was called tho. It was on one of those garden makeover programs in the last month or so. Best, - h |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Peter Hughes" wrote in message . .. 3. Put grid over them, though unfortunately they're rather awkward shapes. Anybody care to share experiences or ideas, or is this covered by an appropriate FAQ? try: http://www.ornamentalfish.org/aquana...s/safapond.htm usual caveats... I am not recommending or warranting the safety etc etc pk |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Paul Kelly" wrote in message ... "Peter Hughes" wrote in message . .. 3. Put grid over them, though unfortunately they're rather awkward shapes. Anybody care to share experiences or ideas, or is this covered by an appropriate FAQ? try: http://www.ornamentalfish.org/aquana...s/safapond.htm usual caveats... I am not recommending or warranting the safety etc etc Better still I've found the company site - the link on the first one did not work http://www.entdirect.plus.com/safapond/ pk |
Childproofing garden ponds.
On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:01:18 -0000, H wrote:
It comes as smallish plastic grids which are fixed just below the water level. Remember that a baby or toddler can drown in half an inch of water. The grid may stop the child getting a full dunking(*) but if the child feel onto the grid face down, maybe knocking itself out... This is pretty rigid grid if it'll take the weight of an adult. (*) A full dunking would probably imprint quite strongly and make a child pretty wary of water in the future, a good thing IMHO. Personaly I'd go for isolating the ponds doesn't need to be Fort Knox, dark green plastic mesh 18" high on stout stakes should do. But don't forget a good, firm, education about the dangers of water and not pushing the fenches over... And of course a young toddler should never be left alone in a garden anyway. -- Cheers Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email. |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Peter Hughes
writes Hi everybody - my first post here. With a 5 month old baby and 2 currently unprotected ponds, one of my jobs for the summer is fairly obvious! Question is, 'how'? My options seem to be: 1. Fill them in, but it would be a shame to lose the associated wildlife. (Even greater shame to lose a toddler though). 2. Fence them in - difficult to do without it becoming unsightly, and in the years to come climbing it would be a challange in itself! 3. Put grid over them, though unfortunately they're rather awkward shapes. Anybody care to share experiences or ideas, or is this covered by an appropriate FAQ? More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world -- David |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"David" wrote in message ... In article , Peter Hughes writes More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world I'll try to calm down before responding to such irresponsible drivel. pk |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article ,
Paul Kelly wrote: "David" wrote in message .. . In article , Peter Hughes writes More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world I'll try to calm down before responding to such irresponsible drivel. When you have calmed down, try and think rationally, and then you may find that it is not drivel. It is quite possible that having a pond in the garden reduces the chane of a child drowning. The reason is that most deaths are in moving water (rivers, the sea etc.) and letting a child learn about water in a relatively safe environment will reduce the risk when it comes across a dangerous one. I don't know if that IS the case, but it is by no means unlikely. Regards, Nick Maclaren, University of Cambridge Computing Service, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email: Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679 |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ill.network: On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:01:18 -0000, H wrote: It comes as smallish plastic grids which are fixed just below the water level. Remember that a baby or toddler can drown in half an inch of water. The grid may stop the child getting a full dunking(*) but if the child feel onto the grid face down, maybe knocking itself out... This is pretty rigid grid if it'll take the weight of an adult. (*) A full dunking would probably imprint quite strongly and make a child pretty wary of water in the future, a good thing IMHO. I am not sure about that. My sister as a toddler went through a phase when she just could not stop falling/leaping into water and was constantly having to be fished out of ponds, the sea, streams etc. We aren't sure if she enjoyed the swim or the consequent attention! Luckily she floated like a cork (honestly, even if you swam underneath and pulled on the feet she did not sink - as an elder sister I can vouch for this...) But I presume not all small children have this amazing floatation ability. Victoria |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In message , Nick Maclaren
writes In article , Paul Kelly wrote: "David" wrote in message . .. In article , Peter Hughes writes More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world I'll try to calm down before responding to such irresponsible drivel. When you have calmed down, try and think rationally, and then you may find that it is not drivel. It is quite possible that having a pond in the garden reduces the chane of a child drowning. The reason is that most deaths are in moving water (rivers, the sea etc.) and letting a child learn about water in a relatively safe environment will reduce the risk when it comes across a dangerous one. Indeed. There is a DTI leaflet available online at: http://www2.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/s...a/pondsafe.pdf But ti doesn't really say anything very much, and I'm not sure about some of the things it says. I do seem to remember though that most drownings in ponds (and there aren't many) happen in others peoples gardens, rather than the child's own garden. (Reasons for this could of course vary, did they have ponds in the garden, where they protected from falling in etc. ?) We have a couple of small ponds and haven't done anything in particular to them. But parents have different tolerances towards these sorts of dangers for their children, I certainly wouldn't criticise someone if they did want to cover or fence it off. Sure small children shouldn't be left unsupervised in the garden, but it may only take a few moments for a child to get them selves into a sticky situation -- Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds urg Suppliers and References FAQ: http://www.familyfrench.co.uk/garden/urgfaq/index.html |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Chris French and Helen Johnson" wrote in message ... In message , Nick Maclaren Sure small children shouldn't be left unsupervised in the garden, but it may only take a few moments for a child to get them selves into a sticky situation ie die pk |
Childproofing garden ponds.
David wrote:
More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world Quite. Exposure to some degree of danger is part of the way all children learn about the world and its hazards. Education, no matter how young the child, is a more responsible attitude to take than removing dangers. You aren't going to be able to remove the dangers for ever, start, now, to realise that, and you'll all be better off as the child grows up. Trev |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"H" wrote in message ... I've seen a product that you can buy to do this. It comes as smallish plastic grids which are fixed just below the water level. Plants can still grow thru it, it's quite difficult to see, and can easily take the weight of a full grown adult. Not sure what it was called tho. It was on one of those garden makeover programs in the last month or so. I saw it too and it looks excellent if it can be installed into a new pond. However, I was concerned that the weight of a foot standing on it would not be sufficiently dissipated to stop piercing a liner. I think (unfortunately) the only solution to the "young children plus ponds" dilemma is a metal grill over the top or VERY high walls around the sides. :-) Which gets me thinking more seriously, what are the chances of fencing off the area with the pond/s in and fitting a self-closing childproof lock to the one and only gate entrance? -- Brian "posting from Sutton, Winner of the English and Welsh Village of the Year award" |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Trevor Barton" wrote in message ... David wrote: More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world Quite. Exposure to some degree of danger is part of the way all children learn about the world and its hazards. Education, no matter how young the child, is a more responsible attitude to take than removing dangers. You aren't going to be able to remove the dangers for ever, start, now, to realise that, and you'll all be better off as the child grows up. Trev So, you have a hot iron and need to leave the room to get something, so you say to your 2 year old "Don't touch" ? In the garden, you have a bonfire. You go away and leave it while your 2 year old plays in the garden? You have a garden pond and take no physical precautions to keep your 2 year old out of the pond? Try a google search for "drowning in garden ponds" From http://www.dti.gov.uk/homesafetynetwork/dw_stats.htm Overall Summary of the garden drownings figures for data period 1992 – 1999 Only 24% of the UK fatal drowning incidents in domestic gardens, 1992 to 1999, involving children of 5 or under occurred at the child's home. Children are most at risk from drowning in the gardens of neighbours, relatives or friends. 69% of the incidents involved garden ponds. Summary – Garden Ponds Over the last eight years 62 children, aged 5 and under, have drowned in garden ponds. This is an average of eight a year. This is relatively constant. Over 85% involved one or two year old children. Boys were involved in 79% of these incidents. Boys would appear to be more adventurous or more attracted to ponds than girls. Only 18% drowned in their own gardens. 29% drowned while visiting, or being cared for, at a relative’s home. 10% drowned while their parents were visiting a friend’s home. The largest percentage (39%) drowned in a neighbour’s pond after wandering away from their own home or the home of the people they were visiting. Boys are more likely to wander into neighbour's property than girls. Neighbours account for 45% of all garden pond incidents involving boys. For girls the figure was 13%. From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1964768.stm Gardening programmes on television may be partly to blame for a sharp rise in the number of children drowning in garden ponds, researchers have suggested. A study found that while the overall number of children drowning in the UK had fallen over a 10 year period, the number of deaths caused by children falling into ponds had almost doubled. The researchers said the rise might be due to an increased number of water features in gardens - perhaps inspired by TV gardening shows. The team, from the University of Wales College of Medicine, the Royal Life Saving Society, and the Royal Society for Prevention of Accidents, compared statistics for deaths by drowning in children aged up to 14 in 1988-9 and 1998-9. The rise in the number of drownings in garden ponds may be due to an increase in the number of water features in gardens Research team led by Professor Jo Sibert They looked at drownings in baths, garden ponds, domestic pools, private and public pools, rivers, canals, lakes and the sea. In total, 104 children drowned in 1998-9, compared with 149 in 1988-9. In all categories, except garden ponds, there were as many or fewer deaths in 1998-9 compared to 10 years earlier. Eleven children drowned in garden ponds in 1988-9, but this figure rose to 21 a decade later. Three times more boys than girls drowned during both periods, and autistic children were particularly at risk, the researchers found. They said drownings in hotel and apartment pools abroad were still of major concern, and called on safety organisations and holiday companies to address the problem. They also called for detailed data on deaths by drowning to be collected routinely by government statistics offices in the UK. 'Real threat' Writing in the British Medical Journal, the researchers led by Professor Jo Sibert, said: "The rise in the number of drownings in garden ponds may be due to an increase in the number of water features in gardens, perhaps as a result of popular garden programmes on television. "Garden ponds remain a real threat to toddlers and should be covered or fenced. "The reduction in drownings in domestic pools may be due to fewer pools being installed and used and some pools having safety fences and gates." Roger Vincent, spokesman for the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, told BBC News Online: "We would like to see garden shows putting in advice wherever they can." But he said the overall rate of drownings depended on many factors, including the weather. In hot summers, people are more likely to swim in potentially dangerous waters, such as canals and lakes. He added: "With garden ponds, no matter what safety precautions have been taken, children find ways around them." Mr Vincent warned the majority of pond accidents happened in other people's gardens, either because safety precautions were not in place or because parents were unaware of the existence of a pond. Last week, TV gardener Charlie Dimmock spoke out on how to ensure garden ponds and water features were safe in a statement from the Royal Life Saving Society. She said: "The first thing to remind people is that gardens are dangerous places and it's important to make them as safe as possible. "I'm not saying not to have ponds or water features. "Children need to learn about water safety, much as they have to learn other things in life, such as how to cross roads, and ponds can also provide excellent educational wildlife environments. "What I am saying is to think about your garden, plan it properly, make it safe, and most of all, don't forget to enjoy it." pk |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Paul Kelly" wrote in message ... "Trevor Barton" wrote in message ... David wrote: More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world Quite. Exposure to some degree of danger is part of the way all children learn about the world and its hazards. Education, no matter how young the child, is a more responsible attitude to take than removing dangers. You aren't going to be able to remove the dangers for ever, start, now, to realise that, and you'll all be better off as the child grows up. Trev So, you have a hot iron and need to leave the room to get something, so you say to your 2 year old "Don't touch" ? In the garden, you have a bonfire. You go away and leave it while your 2 year old plays in the garden? You have a garden pond and take no physical precautions to keep your 2 year old out of the pond? Of course. Both points of view have some validity. It is unwise to be overprotective, and to bring up children without educating them in personal safety strategies is foolish, but sensible precautions *should* be taken until children are old enough to act on their own behalf. Be nice if each child came with an indicator as to when this point had been reached, but they don't. -- Brian "I know about kittens and knitting. Will that do?" |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article ,
Chris French and Helen Johnson wrote: We have a couple of small ponds and haven't done anything in particular to them. But parents have different tolerances towards these sorts of dangers for their children, I certainly wouldn't criticise someone if they did want to cover or fence it off. No, but that is no excuse for hysterical over-reaction and abuse, which is precisely what the term "irresponsible drivel" is. A recent death in Cambridgeshire was because a toddler had cross the road and drowned in a neighbour's pond. If it had been killed while crossing the road, it would have had a one-line report, but garden ponds are dangerous, you see, so it got headlines. Sure small children shouldn't be left unsupervised in the garden, but it may only take a few moments for a child to get them selves into a sticky situation Unfortunately, yes. The same people that get hysterical about minor risks often ignore far more serious ones, such as access from the garden to roads, household chemicals, sharp objects, glass and so on. We have already seen semi-official bans on yew hedges near primary schools, evidently by people who regard Hamlet as a toxicological handbook. Yet the same idiots who promulgated such a ban neither checked what the actual danger is (negligible) nor whether there are far more dangerous and common species (there are). There is similar incredible hysteria about wild animals, especially from species which have never killed a human in recorded history. And so on. It isn't helped by the lunacy of the so-called safety lobby and the irresponsibility of the bureaucrats, who produce guidelines that are completely impossible to follow, with the intention of making simple accidents into the victim's fault (the parents, in this case). Given that a reasonably intelligent two year old will observe when a key is used and where it is put, is quite capable of dragging a chair and standing on its back, childproofing a house is quite impossible unless everything is locked up at ALL times, and the only keys are around an adult's neck. And this includes glassware, both clean and dirty, of course. Similarly with gardens. Any reasonably determined two year old can climb most fences and gates, crawl through most hedges and so on. I know that the modern generation is a a spineless bunch, but some children still have some initative before it is suppressed in them. And initiative in the inexperienced and ignorant is dangerous. Regards, Nick Maclaren, University of Cambridge Computing Service, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email: Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679 |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Paul Kelly
writes "David" wrote in message .. . In article , Peter Hughes writes More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world I'll try to calm down before responding to such irresponsible drivel. Feel free to respond without calming down, which bit do you think is "irresponsible drivel"? I'm in the position of having brought up two eminently sensible children who are very aware of the dangers around them, I organise safety training courses for the local children and supervise the local youth club where I regularly give sensible safety advice talks, you? I also have a 3' deep garden pond... -- David |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Kay Easton
writes In article , David david.simp writes More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds hardly surprising ... more houses have baths than have garden ponds ;-) I know :-) its statistics innit and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, yes supervise then educate, don't childproof the world I agree there. Though a physical barrier in front of something that can kill, rather than simply injure, seems sensible until you are sure the education has been successful! agreed -- David |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Paul Kelly
writes "Trevor Barton" wrote in message .. . David wrote: More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world Quite. Exposure to some degree of danger is part of the way all children learn about the world and its hazards. Education, no matter how young the child, is a more responsible attitude to take than removing dangers. You aren't going to be able to remove the dangers for ever, start, now, to realise that, and you'll all be better off as the child grows up. Trev So, you have a hot iron and need to leave the room to get something, so you say to your 2 year old "Don't touch" ? In the garden, you have a bonfire. You go away and leave it while your 2 year old plays in the garden? You have a garden pond and take no physical precautions to keep your 2 year old out of the pond? The physical precaution is don't leave your 2 yr old unsupervised in any of the above, I take the first two are your analogies, what would you do in the second one? build a fence around the bonfire -- David |
Childproofing garden ponds.
On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:31:23 +0000 (UTC), Paul Kelly wrote:
So, you have a hot iron and need to leave the room to get something, so you say to your 2 year old "Don't touch" ? No, say "Hot" or "Hot, don't touch." but it may be best to avoid the "don't touch" part as that makes said 2 year old curious, "Why shouldn't I touch it?". By saying "Hot" or "Hot, don't touch" you are telling the child *why* they shouldn't touch. By 2 both of my children knew what hot meant and touching things that are hot was a bad idea. They learn't that mainly by the repeated verbal association of hot and don't touch and very occasional encounters with hot objects. In the garden, you have a bonfire. You go away and leave it while your 2 year old plays in the garden? No, two year old would come with me. You have a garden pond and take no physical precautions to keep your 2 year old out of the pond? Not required as the child would never left alone in the garden, see above. However our "garden" is a non flat, rough paddock of just under an acre, tripping on tussuck grass or a rock is far bigger hazard than the water trough. Or simply looseing them in the 6' high grass or a dip! In a more traditional garden I'd have put up an 18" high barrier of garden mesh well supported on stakes. But again at 2 they wouldn't be left alone there would be constant verbal education when near the pond/it's fence. I suspect that the reason that the stats show that most drownings happen away from the home are due to the kids being unaware of the danger either because they don't have a pond at home or the adults supervising aren't vigilant enough. A 2 year old needs *constant* watching, they have no fear or awareness of danger. -- Cheers Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email. |
Childproofing garden ponds.
Xref: 127.0.0.1 uk.rec.gardening:167359
In article . network, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:31:23 +0000 (UTC), Paul Kelly wrote: So, you have a hot iron and need to leave the room to get something, so you say to your 2 year old "Don't touch" ? No, say "Hot" or "Hot, don't touch." but it may be best to avoid the "don't touch" part as that makes said 2 year old curious, "Why shouldn't I touch it?". By saying "Hot" or "Hot, don't touch" you are telling the child *why* they shouldn't touch. By 2 both of my children knew what hot meant and touching things that are hot was a bad idea. They learn't that mainly by the repeated verbal association of hot and don't touch and very occasional encounters with hot objects. I was more brutal. I left a hot metal kettle on the ground, told them "hot - don't touch" and didn't stop them. Yes, I was watching closely, to ensure they didn't pour it over themselves. The elder grabbed once, was comforted, tried with one fingertip the next day and never again. She was WELL under two. The younger was more naturally conservative and followed the behaviour of her sister. They were both handling sharp kitchen knives by four, under careful supervision - and both had been shown how "sharp hurts" in a way that would cause no permanent damage. Yes, I did prod them with a knife tip - and would now be regarded as a cruel parent. The methods of Professor Pavlov work as well on children as on dogs, except that human children are more intelligent and learn much faster. Well, most do .... Regards, Nick Maclaren, University of Cambridge Computing Service, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email: Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679 |
Childproofing garden ponds.
I was more brutal. I left a hot metal kettle on the ground, told them "hot - don't touch" and didn't stop them. Yes, I was watching closely, to ensure they didn't pour it over themselves. The elder grabbed once, was comforted, tried with one fingertip the next day and never again. She was WELL under two. The younger was more naturally conservative and followed the behaviour of her sister. They were both handling sharp kitchen knives by four, under careful supervision - and both had been shown how "sharp hurts" in a way that would cause no permanent damage. Yes, I did prod them with a knife tip - and would now be regarded as a cruel parent. The methods of Professor Pavlov work as well on children as on dogs, except that human children are more intelligent and learn much faster. Well, most do .... Maybe working on your principal Nick, giving a young child a surprise dipping in a pond might do the trick ;-) The cat from next door misjudged her jump from next door's shed and landed, all fours, into my pond...wish I'd had a camcorder to record her reaction! Natalie |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Brian Watson
writes Which gets me thinking more seriously, what are the chances of fencing off the area with the pond/s in and fitting a self-closing childproof lock to the one and only gate entrance? Some friends of ours have one to keep the grandchildren out of the pond. It looks a bit like a fancy version of those things you see at road works. Uprights on heavy plinths joined together by removable mesh bits. Looks quite attractive, actually. -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes I was more brutal. I left a hot metal kettle on the ground, told them "hot - don't touch" and didn't stop them. Yes, I was watching closely, to ensure they didn't pour it over themselves. Like me and the hot tea!! Similarly, my toddler was climbing up and down stairs by the time she was nine months old. I taught her to come down backwards as soon as she could crawl. It wasn't long before she would turn round, straighten her body and treat the stairs as a slide - feet first on her tummy. The only problem was the 'babygrows' - by the time she reached the bottom of the stairs they were tight round her feet and soon wore into holes :((( -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Natalie
writes Maybe working on your principal Nick, giving a young child a surprise dipping in a pond might do the trick ;-) Absolutely - a bit of smelly slime and a few creepy crawlies in the hair .. . . works wonders!!! -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Natalie" wrote in message ... I was more brutal. I left a hot metal kettle on the ground, told them "hot - don't touch" and didn't stop them. Yes, I was watching closely, to ensure they didn't pour it over themselves. but the issue is not simply what you do with your own children, from the Dti site I quoted earlier: Only 18% drowned in their own gardens. 29% drowned while visiting, or being cared for, at a relative’s home. 10% drowned while their parents were visiting a friend’s home. The largest percentage (39%) drowned in a neighbour’s pond after wandering away from their own home or the home of the people they were visiting. pk |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Paul Kelly
writes but the issue is not simply what you do with your own children, from the Dti site I quoted earlier: Only 18% drowned in their own gardens. 29% drowned while visiting, or being cared for, at a relative’s home. 10% drowned while their parents were visiting a friend’s home. The largest percentage (39%) drowned in a neighbour’s pond after wandering away from their own home or the home of the people they were visiting. I will take responsibility for my own children. I do not see why I should take responsibility for other people's. That's not to say I wouldn't help a child in distress - but I am not going to fill in my pond in case someone else lets their child wander round it unattended. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/ |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Kay Easton" wrote in message ... I will take responsibility for my own children. I do not see why I should take responsibility for other people's. Nice attitude. That's not to say I wouldn't help a child in distress - but I am not going to fill in my pond in case someone else lets their child wander round it unattended. The issue is about taking reasonable precautions. If you have let people with children onto your property and you are aware there is a hazard, and it appears from the postings so far that "other people's ponds" are a hazard for children, it makes sense to tell the visitors about it. I wonder if you would be as cavalier about your children when they were on other people's property? I would have been grateful if someone had pointed out such hazards when my children were young enough to make such potentially- dangerous errors of judgement. -- Brian "posting from Sutton, Winner of the English and Welsh Village of the Year award" |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Kay Easton" wrote in message ... In article , Paul Kelly writes . I will take responsibility for my own children. I do not see why I should take responsibility for other people's. That's not to say I wouldn't help a child in distress - but I am not going to fill in my pond in case someone else lets their child wander round it unattended. not what I meant! More a case of, if I have young children, I might well be able to train them to be safe around my pond, but as it is certain that there will be other children in my garden whom I do not control, it would be irresponsible of me to have an unprotected pond. Also, personally, if I had a pond in an area where there are lots of young children, I would ensure that access to the garden was properly fenced and locked. pk |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Brian Watson
writes "Kay Easton" wrote in message ... That's not to say I wouldn't help a child in distress - but I am not going to fill in my pond in case someone else lets their child wander round it unattended. The issue is about taking reasonable precautions. If you have let people with children onto your property and you are aware there is a hazard, and it appears from the postings so far that "other people's ponds" are a hazard for children, it makes sense to tell the visitors about it. Of course it does. It does not make sense for me to fill in my pond, surround it by an impenetrable fence or cover it with a grid. Nor does it fall to me to keep an eye on visitors' children. Obviously, if I notice we are a child missing, I will alert the parents. And if I am aware that a child is heading towards a hazard, I will head it back the other way and warn its parents. But the responsibility for the child's welfare is with them, unless they have asked me, and I have agreed, to look after the child on their behalf. I wonder if you would be as cavalier about your children when they were on other people's property? Of course I would. What my children do on other people's property is my responsibility. I wouldn't dream of expecting my host or any of the other guests to take on that responsibility. Nor would I blame my host if they hadn't pointed out all hazards to me - it is difficult for someone without young children to know or remember all the ways in which they can get into trouble. I would have been grateful if someone had pointed out such hazards when my children were young enough to make such potentially- dangerous errors of judgement. Of course you would have been. You are not, I hope, suggesting that I have argued anywhere against pointing out hazards? -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/ |
Childproofing garden ponds.
On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 18:02:27 -0000, Brian Watson wrote:
I would have been grateful if someone had pointed out such hazards when my children were young enough to make such potentially- dangerous errors of judgement. So would I but I would not rely on it or even expect it. The safety of my children is my responsibility. When you have kids, you should be constantly doing a risk and hazard assessment of the enviroment and what they are up too. -- Cheers Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email. |
Childproofing garden ponds.
Paul Kelly wrote:
"Trevor Barton" wrote in message ... David wrote: More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world Quite. Exposure to some degree of danger is part of the way all children learn about the world and its hazards. Education, no matter how young the child, is a more responsible attitude to take than removing dangers. You aren't going to be able to remove the dangers for ever, start, now, to realise that, and you'll all be better off as the child grows up. Trev So, you have a hot iron and need to leave the room to get something, so you say to your 2 year old "Don't touch" ? No, that would be stupid. It's very easy to pull an iron down on your head (if you're two). In the garden, you have a bonfire. You go away and leave it while your 2 year old plays in the garden? No, that would be stupid, it's very easy to walk or run into a bonfire (if you're two). You have a garden pond and take no physical precautions to keep your 2 year old out of the pond? If you read my other post in this thread you'd have seen that I suggested putting some sort of barrier up in conjunction with education. The barrier does not have to be substantial, but to serve as a reminder to the child that it's something not to cross. Try a google search for "drowning in garden ponds" From http://www.dti.gov.uk/homesafetynetwork/dw_stats.htm Overall Summary of the garden drownings figures for data period 1992 – 1999 Only 24% of the UK fatal drowning incidents in domestic gardens, 1992 to 1999, involving children of 5 or under occurred at the child's home. Children are most at risk from drowning in the gardens of neighbours, relatives or friends. 69% of the incidents involved garden ponds. So all that says is that 76% or fatal child drownings in gardens don't happen in your garden. You'd be better off filling in your neighbour's pond, then, wouldn't you? Summary – Garden Ponds Over the last eight years 62 children, aged 5 and under, have drowned in garden ponds. This is an average of eight a year. This is relatively constant. And almost vanishingly small compared with other causes of infant mortality. Compare it with the more than 8 people, many of them children, who die every *day* on the roads. Do you not take your child on the road? If not, why not? Over 85% involved one or two year old children. Many many more than 8 under two year olds die every year from SIDS (cot death). Compared with that one, which you can do nothing about, drowning in a pond is such a small risk as to not be significant. In any means, of all the multitude of things that's likely to kill your children before they reach adulthood, pond drowning in your own pond is such a tiny thing it's really not something you ought to be overly concerned about. Become an advanced driver (through the IAM training). You're much more likely not to kill your children than you would be if you fill in your pond. Trev |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In message , Paul Kelly
writes "Chris French and Helen Johnson" wrote in message ... In message , Nick Maclaren Sure small children shouldn't be left unsupervised in the garden, but it may only take a few moments for a child to get them selves into a sticky situation ie die Well maybe, but probably not. As you point out elsewhere, there are very few child deaths due to drowning in garden ponds. I would guess a lot more trip/fall in etc and get a fright (their parents also....) and learn a good lesson for the future. I'm not arguing against people fencing or otherwise protecting children from falling in their pond (as the partial quote you made was making clear), just that the importance and necessity of it may be overstated -- Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds urg Suppliers and References FAQ: http://www.familyfrench.co.uk/garden/urgfaq/index.html |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In message , Paul Kelly
writes "Trevor Barton" wrote in message .. . David wrote: More children drown in the bath than in garden ponds and most children who drown in ponds are between 1 and 2 yrs old who shouldn't be out unsupervised anyway, supervise then educate, don't childproof the world Quite. Exposure to some degree of danger is part of the way all children learn about the world and its hazards. Education, no matter how young the child, is a more responsible attitude to take than removing dangers. You aren't going to be able to remove the dangers for ever, start, now, to realise that, and you'll all be better off as the child grows up. Trev So, you have a hot iron and need to leave the room to get something, so you say to your 2 year old "Don't touch" ? No, she would come with me (though she does have a very goo grasp on the concept of 'hot' AFAICT), more likely she'd pull it onto her head and give herself a nasty bump. In the garden, you have a bonfire. You go away and leave it while your 2 year old plays in the garden? No. You have a garden pond and take no physical precautions to keep your 2 year old out of the pond? No, neither do I have any physical precautions against her running into a bonfire, I wouldn't leave her in the garden with a bonfire, I wouldn't leave her running round unattended at all in the garden, the pond is not the only risk. Try a google search for "drowning in garden ponds" snip Which confirms what I always thought anyway. 1. as a cause of child deaths, drowning in ponds is very uncommon, there are much greater risks to my daughter. 2. most occur in other peoples gardens, rather than the child's own, so the real risk of drowning in our pond is even lower. I'm not saying that there is no risk, there is of course, as there are many risks faced everyday. Some people may feel that they need to fill in there pond some cover it, some fence it etc. That's fair enough, I have no problem with that. My response to this particular risk is observation and education. -- Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds urg Suppliers and References FAQ: http://www.familyfrench.co.uk/garden/urgfaq/index.html |
Childproofing garden ponds.
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ill.network... On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 18:02:27 -0000, Brian Watson wrote: I would have been grateful if someone had pointed out such hazards when my children were young enough to make such potentially- dangerous errors of judgement. So would I but I would not rely on it or even expect it. The safety of my children is my responsibility. When you have kids, you should be constantly doing a risk and hazard assessment of the enviroment and what they are up too. All I said was "I'd be grateful ..." as I think it's only common decency to do it. I am not one who subscribes to the theory that "there is no such thing as community" or "society", or whatever it was the silly old bat said. -- Brian "Not quite an Angel" |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Brian Watson
writes The issue is about taking reasonable precautions. If you have let people with children onto your property and you are aware there is a hazard, and it appears from the postings so far that "other people's ponds" are a hazard for children, it makes sense to tell the visitors about it. Good God - all my visitors know me and hence know that I have several ponds and lots of rocks that children can damage themselves on!! I don't need to tell every visitor every time they come and visit me. When my children were little and we went somewhere new, I always made sure I kept my eye on them *all the time*. I would even let them have minor 'accidents' to let them learn. They always knew that if I warned them about something, then that something was something to avoid for a very good reason - and they always remembered. -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Kay Easton
writes Of course I would. What my children do on other people's property is my responsibility. Reminds me of Cormaic's . . . um . . . bellow when he found the children absailing ?sp down our shed roof :)))))))))) -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Paul Kelly
writes Only 18% drowned in their own gardens. 29% drowned while visiting, or being cared for, at a relative’s home. 10% drowned while their parents were visiting a friend’s home. The largest percentage (39%) drowned in a neighbour’s pond after wandering away from their own home or the home of the people they were visiting. Probably the percentage is so high because they had been so overprotected they had no idea of the danger associated with water!!!!! -- Jane Ransom in Lancaster. I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg but if you need to email me for any other reason, put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com |
Childproofing garden ponds.
In article , Jane Ransom
writes In article , Paul Kelly writes Only 18% drowned in their own gardens. 29% drowned while visiting, or being cared for, at a relative’s home. 10% drowned while their parents were visiting a friend’s home. The largest percentage (39%) drowned in a neighbour’s pond after wandering away from their own home or the home of the people they were visiting. Probably the percentage is so high because they had been so overprotected they had no idea of the danger associated with water!!!!! Within the last 6 months we have been forced, by public pressure, to build a fence around the village pond despite the fact that the pond has been there since god was a boy and no record or memory of there being any incident concerning it, we are truly becoming a nanny state. The latest is that the fence isn't good enough as a child could still get through it, next we'll have to fence off all roads as well -- David |
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