paghat wrote:

In article , Pam wrote:


Not sure why you persistently equate hobby gardening with a know-nothing
grubby
laborer.

I don't; YOUR attitude toward Ciscoe (which you've ammended, & that's
appreciated) was underscored with his being merely a hobby gardener, &
when Val said someone should invite him to this ng, your reply was
"Heavens preserve us!!" -- that's pretty unambiguous, you didn't want
someone you perceived as a hobby gardener hanging around here, though
mainly we're the only ones who do. Your attitude. Not mine. So don't
project.

Your words: "another worthlessly grubby "hobby gardener" , "merely a
dumb-old-hobby-gardener ". The negative descriptors are yours, not mine. I only
made a statement that he was more a hobby gardener than the extensively trained and
all-knowing horticulturist many of his followers believe him to be. There was no
inference that a hobby gardener was farther down on the evolutionary scale except
yours. His training and experience is no more or no less than what many of us have.
He is not infallible, which something we both apparently agree on.

The "Heavens preserve us" remark was intended to express my dismay that yet another
rabid Ciscoe fan (with whom I deal on a daily basis) was touting his wonders to the
newsgroup at large. There is no dispute that he is an entertaining speaker, but if
you dealt with the fall-out of his less than accurate information (which tends to be
perceived as gardening LAW by his followers) day in and day out, you could perhaps
understand why I was not eager to see more of it permeated through the newsgroup,
which already has enough misinformation disseminated on it to last a lifetime. That
you should derive something else from the remark is entirely your projection and a
somewhat defensive one, at that.


And since you have no personal knowledge of my background and education,
training,
professional status or even responsibilities at the nursery, perhaps you could
refrain from commenting on them as though you do.

Please show me where I commented on your education, expertise or lack
thereof. My comments on nursery workers are based on the majority
encountered & none were even indirectly aimed at you.

And again I quote: "Thirty years of professional gardening teaches ANYone a
great deal more than is learned by selling lots of gallon pots of flowers
to an over-eager public as in your case." And I seem to recall a number of other
posts in which my position was described by you as a "pansy waterer" and another in
which my horticultural training was called in question because it didn't fit YOUR
definition of a horticulturist. I could call up the archives and provide you with
the quotes as you so often like to do, but it is really not worth my time. Let's
just leave it at you have no idea of my background, length or breadth of experience
or professional position and any comments you might make will reflect that.

I know a half-dozen EXTREMELY knowledgeable nursery owners & a
couple equally knowledgeable employees, but they're the distinct minority.
The knowledgeable horticulturalists tend to have university affiliations,
or are hybridizers & growers rather than retailers -- a knowledgeable
horticulturalist in a retail nursery is rather like spotting a high-end
chef flipping Herfy burgers. None of which assesses you personally in
anyway, & you're overreaching to imagine yourself insulted but a merely
factual if overgeneralized observation.

This is a pretty symptomatic statement about what you don't know about horticulture
and the nursery business. If you were to pass it off as your opinion, that's fine,
but you make the statement as though it were fact. I can list a dozen nurseries in
the area off the top of my head with degreed horticulturists on staff and in this
area, extremely knowledgeable nursery staff is the rule rather than the exception,
unless you frequent box stores and discounters rather than retail nurseries. Why you
think qualified horticulturists are restricted to universities is beyond my
understanding. Horticulture is simply the science of plant husbandry and can be
applied to any aspect of the green industry. I know any number of degreed
horticulturists that wholesale fertilizers and soil amendments, even garden tools
and haven't been anywhere close to a university since they graduated and the closest
they get to a plant is when they walk by one. Like any profession, the more you
know, the more likely you are to be hired for a position. My seasonal hiring
resources included resumes from several individuals with Masters of Landscape
Architecture degrees, college educated horticulturists, even a propagator of native
plants with a PhD in botany. Anyway you look at it, horticulture is a relatively
underpaid profession and the current job market is tough and qualified and highly
trained but unemployed horticulturists, botanists and landscape designers abound.
Factual, no - over generalized, indeed.

pam - gardengal