wrote in message
...
I am really surprised that you are going into personal attack mode.

Actually I was not, that was not my intention. I was going out of town, and
pressed for time, so I might have been shorter in my post, but there was no
anger, just a concern over repeat "misinformation"..

I apologize if I seemed a bit short, but you and I both know this is an
issue we have "debated" before.

We have disagreed on a number of issues in the past ranging from safe use of
PP, amount of water people need, use of routine salt, routine use of
antibiotics, etc. I never took any discussion personally, even when you
stated things I knew not to be factual, based on my fields of training. Nor
have I attacked people. That is not my style.

I don't have much time, which is why I rarely post, except when questions
are asked that I can answer based on available time, knowledge and
experience.

But, in this particular case I was quite concerned someone considering
purchansing a BF was going to be discouraged by something that just doesn't
happen, if the device is used properly.

I addressed these concerns the last time you raised them, and referenced the
same above 2 sites. I hoped you might have at least looked at the
information on BF on those sites.

Ingrid,
.... A personal attack or assault is not a discussion of facts. It begins
with the
attacker clearly identifying the person being attacked either by name or
by the use
of "you" repeatedly

it sure would be nice if you would sure of your facts, before providing
such misinformation.

I am sorry if you feel one use of "you", and one use of "your" constitutes a
personal attack..

... The attack is full of emotional words, feelings, beliefs and opinions,
but few
facts. this is a mild attack
It really does impact the credibility of this NG.


I'll let the informed readers of this NG determine where the emotional
words, etc, etc... you refer to are. I must have missed something..

.... The attacker will often refer to "unidentified others" who share
their beliefs
and "know what they know". The attack is most often public to be
effective. So you
are assuming the role of protector of the newsgroup ...

Not a protector, just someone who wants to help a person out with a filter
selection based on current facts, along with some personal experience with
BF.

And here I am being nice to you Greg. I erase your name from an erroneous
statement
like "anaerobic bacteria break down ammonia to nitrogen which is a more
usable form
for plants". I dont assume anything except it was an oversight, a
mistake.


Actually Ingrid if you are going to quote things, please quote them
accurately.. this is exactly what I mean!

The quote (folks you can read from the post just above this one, entitled
"VF.. 1 foot deep enough" )actually states (and I am using cut and paste
here so I will make no errors in the quote actually says):

"to allow anaerobic conditions to occur in the deeper soil layers,
which allows for the reduction of nitrates back to nitrogen, which is more
efficiently utilized by all the plants"

It states reduction of nitrates, (not the ammonia which you quoted me as
saying), back to nitrogen. I didn't mean nitrogen gas. I did assume most
would know that reduced nitrogen is actually NH4 (ammonium), reduced by the
addition of the hydrogen, but I should not have made any assumptions. Sorry
folks if there was any confusion...

If you go back and read my post (made a little bit ago, before my pc
crashed) tonight to that thread, you can see the references yourself. The
references will substantiate my statements in what goes on in plants, in how
they most efficiently utilize nitrogen. (whoops, I should say again reduced
nitrogen in the form of NH4).

That's exactly what I mean.. by taking liberties with quotes, statements,
etc, information is clearly taken out of context, and misleading to folks.


The ONLY fact in what I wrote was bead filters were originally made for
swimming
pools
Not fact. What I heard from Jo Ann. The local pond people come to her
when their
fish or ponds are in trouble. The locals brought their bead filters in
and this is
what SHE found inside of them. And the symptoms of the fish that were
sick and/or
dying in the ponds showing H2S poisoning were using some kind of bead
filter. Not to
mention that is what it smelled like when they opened them up. You are
free to call
Jo Ann and dispute what she has seen first hand. No need to attack me
cause I am
repeating what I heard from a highly reputable source.

Now you've identified your source, that is useful..

By pond people, I assume that means more than one.

I don't dispute she may have seen anaerobic poisoning, but as I said above,
any filter that is not maintained properly can and does result in anaerobic
conditions. BF are no different, They have a bigger SA per volume of filter,
so they have a bigger SA that could produce more of our good aerobic
(nitrifying) bacteria, and if not flushed for weeks at a time, a simple 5
minute task, more anaerobic as well.

Bigger gain, bigger risk, if not maintained.

They are so much easier to maintain compared to the brush, foam, and other
media filters that need to be taken aaprt and cleaned for optimum
performance.

For people with back problems, degenerative athritis, etc, they really cut
the work of ponding considerably down. A high tech blessing, I feel (that's
my opinion only)

I toured both Bretts koi farm and Prices koi farm. I saw no bead filters.

Those are 2 farms. I could give you the names of many others that do use
BF.. but that only shows that they can be safely used to handle large
volumes of fish, which was my point to begin with.

OTOH, as
I jokingly said .. women will go with cheap, low maintenance "organic"
veggie filter
while men will use expensive, high maintenance technology to achieve the
same
purpose. So I am not surprised that some men will be recommending what
they use.
Ingrid

Veggie filters are fine. It depends on the actual load of fish per volume of
pond you want to maintain. I don't you think would dispute that BF have some
of the highest SA to volume ratio you can get in a filter in today's market.

With heavily loaded Koi ponds, I don't think many would only rely on VF to
adequately maintain water quality.

Happy ponding,
Greg