On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:46:34 GMT, "James Curts"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:10:04 GMT, "James Curts"
wrote:

Many of these
chemicals, just as in the instances of dirt grown vegetables, were within
the plant structure and could not be washed off. The only solutions are
to
remove the items from the store shelves, which one major local grocery
chain
did, or to advertise the product so strongly and favorably that customers
consumed the evidence.

The threat of food poisoning from aldicarb residues in American
hydroponically grown cucumbers comes to mind as one example that
residues of toxic chemicals within the plant structure cannot be
washed off. Indeed such aldicarb-soaked hydroponically grown
cucumbers would had been better removed from the shelves -- before
unknowing customers ate them and got sick. However, hydroponically
grown produce should from what I've heard generally have -lower-
residues than conventionally dirt-grown, and the residues would not
very often exceed maximum recommended levels, and not frequently lead
to clinical poisoning.

The first portion of your message is factual while the insinuation at the
end is unfounded and unnecessary.

But, there is no insinuation at the end. It is all factual.

Aldicarb (trade name Temik) is a granular pesticide registered
since 1970. It is used to control insects, mites, and nematodes on
bananas, cotton, citrus, dry beans, grain sorghum, ornamentals,
pecans, peanuts, potatoes, seed alfalfa, soybeans, sugar beets,
sugarcane, sweet potatoes, and tobacco. Additionally, there are
tolerances established for residues of aldicarb on imported bananas

You are using an outdated source of information. There are no
tolerances for aldicarb in bananas, they were revoked many years ago
when Rhone Poulenc withdrew support for aldicarb use on banana
due to concerns of residues above tolerances resulting from such use.

and coffee beans.
Rhone-Poulenc is the sole registrant of
aldicarb. It is restricted to use by certified applicators only.

Aldicarb was never licensed or intended for use on water melons or
cucumbers. The use on the cucumbers you mentioned was illegal and while a
fact was not discovered and isolated to prevent the illness and
hospitalization of consumers until after the fact.

I know all that. Still, food poisoning with aldicarb from
hydroponically grown cucumbers did happen, and on more than one
occasion.

The EPA was immediately on top of this and was grateful that Rhone-Poulenc
immediately pulled the product and compensated the growers for the
purchases.

I think you have gotten the unfortunate cucumber cases mixed up with
the unfortunate cases of aldicarb residues in potatoes above
tolerances. However, those potatoes were conventionally dirt grown,
not grown in a hydroponic system.

Conventional hydroponic produce, unfortunately and for news fodder, is
lumped together with produce obtained by introducing "organic" additives
into the nutrient supply. The cucumbers in question were from an "organic"
hydroponics grower whose crop was infested almost beyond redemption
practices by insects, mites, etc. and the chemical was applied in much
higher amounts than was necessary.

Well, obviously doses were unusually high or people wouldn't have got
sick. According to WHO data I've seen the investigators of one of
these cases found 1.8 mg/l in the water used in the hydroponic system,
and 0.6 mg/kg in the gravel used. Residues found in the cucumbers were
between 0.7 and 6.6 mg/kg.

Normal hydroponic practice is to create an environment in the greenhouse
which supports beneficial insects and organisms to combat these unwanted
infestations. Chemical additives are seldom even considered or necessary and
in today's well overseen actions nothing harmful is ever used in the serious
commercial operation.

So, hydroponic produce generally would have lower pesticide residues
than conventionally dirt-grown. Just as I said.

What you've "heard" is of no import and in simple form has no foundation
other than to imply a familiarity you do not possess with the topic.

Nonsense. I am referring that what I hear from you and other
hydroponic proponents: that hydroponic produce generally have lower
residues than conventionally dirt-grown.

A serious study of hydroponics growing practices as we find in the US,
Australia, Israel, etc. shows a conscientious approach to food production
not found in dirt or supposed "organic" systems.

But, you have no serious study to back up this extreme claim, right?

To clarify a small point, organic growing practices in true form are the
ideal food growing method and produce healthy, nutritious and wholesome
food.

Indeed. If you want minimal pesticide residues in your produce, you
should certainly consider getting it from organic systems.

In reality and from a commercial standpoint it cannot compete with
conventional dirt farming in the market place.

Not clear what you mean by this. Organic farming does not cater
for the same market as conventional.

From the same standpoint it
cannot compete with standard hydroponics without cheating.

Same comment, the standpoint is invalid, since organic
farming caters for a distinct market for organic food, which
hydroponic and conventional geoponic simply do not produce.

snip tiresome repetitions