Hmmm. I've only worked with little fish, under 6" in 3 different labs. The
fish usually rolled over in about 3-4 minutes and could be handled easily.
When done, they were placed in a second tank with airstones running, and
they recouped in about 2 minutes. In fact, catching them to return them to
the main population was a problem, so they *definitely* felt better! We were
using 5 drops to the gallon. It's funny that you say the KHA course doesn't
exactly approve of the Oil of Clove; Doc Johnson stated that it was safer,
inasmuch as he had fish that he thought were dead from it, only to have them
revive on the trip home. He thought it was safer in "amateur" hands than
Finquel, the "vet approved" anasthesia, which is *definitely* fatal if
mishandled or overdosed. I haven't used the Finquel - maybe "one of these
days"???? so I guess it's a matter of what YOU - the person in charge! - is
most comfortable with.
Let me know how it goes with this final dip. I haven't had to use IT,
either! I have a full stock of meds in my first aid kit, but hope I never
have to use them G
Lee
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
From taking the KHA course Oil of Clove was not recommended because it
takes longer to put them out and longer to wake them up. They did not feel
it was as forgiving as your experience. My fish were barely knocked out.
Regardless though, from my experience, Finquel just isn't necessary if one
does the bag method. Last dip was done today, btw. Now we wait. ~ jan
On 23 Jul 2003 09:24:13 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:
I saw your posting on another board regarding this subject. Finquel is
the
"vet" stuff, and much more potent. Folks I know that have done the
"anesthesia" route and the TriCide Neo have used Oil of Cloves, much more
passive and forgiving regarding dosing. Finquel dosing is, well, finicky!
A
little too much, and oops! - which may be the cause of the problems. Oil
of
Cloves is a LOT cheaper, too. And smells better! Finquel is fine for
actual
surgical procedures, to put the fish "under". It's also the only
anesthesia
allowed for food fish. But being as I'm not planning on eating my koi,
the
Oil of Cloves is kinda like (to draw an analogy!) the laughing gas at the
dentist's office: They just don't care! Both have their place: it's just
that I only keep Oil of Cloves on hand because I'm not planning on
performing surgery. It's better suited for fish that you just want to
handle, IMHO. I'm lucky if I can bowl any of my koi; forget about
handling
them without a struggle.
Lee
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
On 22 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500, "Lee Brouillet"
wrote:
I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one,
a
digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram
scales.
Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the
weight
of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I
think
it
cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J
says
you
can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and
fish
poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it.
Course if you're still having trouble after a month...... ;o) The dip
seems
to stay fairly clean and doesn't make the fish shed its slime coat that
I
can tell. I really wonder if Doc J came up with these ideas, but hasn't
experienced them, because.....
the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a
budget.
just forget this. To use the spray method you must sedate the fish and
Finquel isn't cheap either, in liquid form has a storage of up to a
week
at
room temp, so you can get thru a treatment on the same container....
again,
if the fish doesn't contaminate it with feces.
I did this method first, pulled weakest fish out, sedated, sprayed and
kept
moist for 2-3 minutes, put into wake up water, dead as a door nail. I
worked on it for 15 minutes with airstone all but stuck in its mouth.
Next fish, sedated, sprayed it and 1 minute into treatment it wakes up.
It
flipping and a flopping all over the hot tub cover. Meds & slime going
all
over me, the hot tub cover, the house & window. It's one thing to hold
a
fish that is wet & slimy, but when covered with this medication, there
is
no holding it. I was lucky just to get a grip as it flipped off the
edge
of
the hot tub and stopped struggling. Had it continued it would have gone
behind the hot tub, on to the dusty cement and I would have had the
devil
of a time getting it out from behind there. Gives me shivers just to
think
about it. If you chose this method, sprayed it inside a tub.
Personally though, it just not worth going thru the sedating procedure,
imo. Not to mention all those containers need to be very close in temp
&
pH, or one just adds more stress.
There is another couple in the club who feel that there might be
counter
indications (is that the correct term?) using Finquel & Tricide-Neo.
That
they cause an adverse reaction. Their theory is only based on a leather
koi
that went thru the Finquel into the dip and came out filleted.... the
wife
said he left it in the dip 10 minutes and the directions say no longer
than
5. So I have to verify that. Then there is my experience, but both fish
were pretty far along in their problems by the time I got set up and
the
meds in the mail. Thus, if anyone else results are different, I'd like
to
hear about it. ~ jan
See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website
See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website