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Does size matter...when stocking Koi in your pond... :)
Hmmm. I've only worked with little fish, under 6" in 3 different labs. The
fish usually rolled over in about 3-4 minutes and could be handled easily. When done, they were placed in a second tank with airstones running, and they recouped in about 2 minutes. In fact, catching them to return them to the main population was a problem, so they *definitely* felt better! We were using 5 drops to the gallon. It's funny that you say the KHA course doesn't exactly approve of the Oil of Clove; Doc Johnson stated that it was safer, inasmuch as he had fish that he thought were dead from it, only to have them revive on the trip home. He thought it was safer in "amateur" hands than Finquel, the "vet approved" anasthesia, which is *definitely* fatal if mishandled or overdosed. I haven't used the Finquel - maybe "one of these days"???? so I guess it's a matter of what YOU - the person in charge! - is most comfortable with. Let me know how it goes with this final dip. I haven't had to use IT, either! I have a full stock of meds in my first aid kit, but hope I never have to use them G Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... From taking the KHA course Oil of Clove was not recommended because it takes longer to put them out and longer to wake them up. They did not feel it was as forgiving as your experience. My fish were barely knocked out. Regardless though, from my experience, Finquel just isn't necessary if one does the bag method. Last dip was done today, btw. Now we wait. ~ jan On 23 Jul 2003 09:24:13 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: I saw your posting on another board regarding this subject. Finquel is the "vet" stuff, and much more potent. Folks I know that have done the "anesthesia" route and the TriCide Neo have used Oil of Cloves, much more passive and forgiving regarding dosing. Finquel dosing is, well, finicky! A little too much, and oops! - which may be the cause of the problems. Oil of Cloves is a LOT cheaper, too. And smells better! Finquel is fine for actual surgical procedures, to put the fish "under". It's also the only anesthesia allowed for food fish. But being as I'm not planning on eating my koi, the Oil of Cloves is kinda like (to draw an analogy!) the laughing gas at the dentist's office: They just don't care! Both have their place: it's just that I only keep Oil of Cloves on hand because I'm not planning on performing surgery. It's better suited for fish that you just want to handle, IMHO. I'm lucky if I can bowl any of my koi; forget about handling them without a struggle. Lee "~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message .. . On 22 Jul 2003 07:53:04 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote: I hadn't thought of separating it -- duh! BTW, if you don't have one, a digital postal scale is a cheap way to get around the expensive gram scales. Mine does ounces or grams, including tare (so you don't include the weight of your container when you're measuring), and goes up to 5 lbs. I think it cost about $30.00 or so. FYG, if you didn't see it anywhere, Doc J says you can strain the mix through a coffee filter to remove excess slime and fish poo, etc. and refrigerate the mix to get about a month out of it. Course if you're still having trouble after a month...... ;o) The dip seems to stay fairly clean and doesn't make the fish shed its slime coat that I can tell. I really wonder if Doc J came up with these ideas, but hasn't experienced them, because..... the spray method will allow the mixture to go further, for those on a budget. just forget this. To use the spray method you must sedate the fish and Finquel isn't cheap either, in liquid form has a storage of up to a week at room temp, so you can get thru a treatment on the same container.... again, if the fish doesn't contaminate it with feces. I did this method first, pulled weakest fish out, sedated, sprayed and kept moist for 2-3 minutes, put into wake up water, dead as a door nail. I worked on it for 15 minutes with airstone all but stuck in its mouth. Next fish, sedated, sprayed it and 1 minute into treatment it wakes up. It flipping and a flopping all over the hot tub cover. Meds & slime going all over me, the hot tub cover, the house & window. It's one thing to hold a fish that is wet & slimy, but when covered with this medication, there is no holding it. I was lucky just to get a grip as it flipped off the edge of the hot tub and stopped struggling. Had it continued it would have gone behind the hot tub, on to the dusty cement and I would have had the devil of a time getting it out from behind there. Gives me shivers just to think about it. If you chose this method, sprayed it inside a tub. Personally though, it just not worth going thru the sedating procedure, imo. Not to mention all those containers need to be very close in temp & pH, or one just adds more stress. There is another couple in the club who feel that there might be counter indications (is that the correct term?) using Finquel & Tricide-Neo. That they cause an adverse reaction. Their theory is only based on a leather koi that went thru the Finquel into the dip and came out filleted.... the wife said he left it in the dip 10 minutes and the directions say no longer than 5. So I have to verify that. Then there is my experience, but both fish were pretty far along in their problems by the time I got set up and the meds in the mail. Thus, if anyone else results are different, I'd like to hear about it. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
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