02-08-2003, 01:12 AM
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Baby Shampoo as Horticultural Soap
In article ,
(paghat) wrote:
I dunno that I'll ever have need of this little tidbit, but it kinda
interested me, as I used to use dishwashing soap as a horticultural soap
to get rid of aphids, until I discovered a good hard spray of water did
the job just as well, without injury to ladybug larvae. Jerry Baker
(thuggish anti-marijuana hippy-head-bashing police officer cum "America's
Master Gardener") suggests using baby shampoo instead of dishwashing OR
horticultural soap, because baby shampoo has a very small amount of
fungicide in it as well. That was news to me, but interesting, & possibly
useful to know.
-paghat the ratgirl
PS. The fungicide (or, rather, broadspectrum antimicrobial) that is in
Johnson's & Johnson's & most other major brands of Baby Shampoo is
Quaternium. There is not a lot of it, & it is supposed to protect against
numerous pathogenic microorganisms -- viruses, bacteria, & fungus -- &
hand-cleaning formulas with greater amounts of Quaternium are used in
hygienic farm practices when moving between animals, so as not to carry
illnesses from animal to animal (or from animal to human). It is also
found in many ordinary handcreams and ointments. Some petshops & animal
shelters make people clean their hands between animals with a self-drying
soapy squirt-bottle substance, the active component of which is
Quaternium. The hand-wiping concoction allegedly kills over 99% of skin
surface microbes, especially fungus and bacteria, but also protozoans &
small parasites & viruses if they have not penetrated the skin surface.
Its milder dose added to baby shampoo is supposedly responsible for
certain infant scalp disorders & fungal diseases which are common in the
rest of the world pretty much vanishing among North American children.
That's the very good part of this chemical. But there is also a bad part:
The manufacturers of Quaternium insist it is non-toxic to the nth degree,
but in fact it is a carcinogen & Johnson's & Johnsons has been somewhat
under siege about this for some while (their baby shampoo contains at
least two known carcinogens; it doesn't worry me a lot for skin-contact,
so I happen often to use J&J for my hair as it's a comparatively cheap
product compared to fancy-ass shampoos & I just kinda like it). In
products wherein it is more potent, it still seems to me the worst
potential of Quaternium is still less harmful than alternatives, plus it
has a healing & moisturing properties.
When I posted the above I wasn't actually recommending it, but had
intended after seeing what others thought (if others thought anything
about it at all) to note that it is also a carinogen (as Jerry Baker did
not note). Baker seems a bit a twink to me, more salesman than gardener,
but I haven't seen him enough to know if he always comes off like that. He
does recommend what he perceives as organic alternatives for things, &
that's to the good, it's just that anyone among us who prefers to adhere
to organic principles must always be on guard that the organic thing is
also toxic or unnecessary or at at least questionable.
For garden use I don't find it any more questionable than horticultural
soap or my past use of dishwashing soap. I stopped using even that as it
just seemed unncessary & harsh. Some recommendations when using the
soap-your-garden alternative (for aphid & other insect control) is to use
either baby shampoo or Ivory because these are non-detergents, & detergent
soaps can & do burn leaves. Commercially made horticultural soaps have
harsher content, with salts, copper or pyrethenes, & fatty acids that are
actually toxic to ants, caterpillars, spider mites, & beetle larvae;
whereas homemade with Ivory or baby shampoo it would be less toxic than
commercial insecticidal soaps for gardens, but would mainly only kill soft
insects like aphids & spitbug larvae), & some insecticidal soaps with
fatty acides can have a most unwanted herbicidal side-effect because the
fat holds fast to the plant so that any mild herbicidal effect of sundry
salts remain especially on broadleaves long enough to cause burn or leaf
death. So while the baby shampoo would kill fewer insects (& is generally
only suggested for aphids) at it's worst it is going to be safer than
detergents or insecticidal soap products for the plants.
ANY use of soaps should be regarded a "less toxic" option rather than
overly lionized as an organic non-toxic option.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/
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