On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:08:40 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:14:53 -0500, dave weil
wrote:



Dave, shame on you! Letting them dry out completely is not the same
thing as making sure they drain continuously. NO TRAYS under potted
roses. Full sun, lots of water, no trays, and they will be fine. And I
would not keep them in the house at all, I don't care what Harry and
David's says.

I think you're confused Shiva. I don't grow miniature roses in pots. I
don't grow *any* roses in pots, ever. I was simply giving advice from
what I know about the habits of roses.

Does not follow. You said:

"Are you letting them dry out on occasion? Roses need copious amounts
of water, but, conversely, they don't like wet feet either."

Then you went on to say that Pam should not let them dry out
completely--so you mixed two really important items in a strange way.

Maybe I wasn't explainng myself properly.

First, I was pointing out how contradictory the water needs of roses
are. First of all, they like a lot of water. However, they don't like
to dry out completely. In that sense, they're a little like orchids.

What this means is that there's little margin for error. If you
overwater them in a small pot, the soil is likely to get sodden (and,
as you point out, this is exacerbated if you use trays and don't empty
them after watering - few plants like wet feet). However, if you try
to let them dry a little between waterings and you wait even an extra
day or two, you might get a totally dry pot before you know it and by
that point, you've likely killed the plant. Not critical for a plant
like a ficus or a pothos, both of which will remind you that they want
water.

1. They need to be moist
2. They need to drain.

I was speed reading, as usual, but the above two items are the
important things Pam needed to know, in addition to the outside thing
and the sunlight thing.

I agree. Maybe my explanation wasn't the clearest.

My thoughts on pots and watering comes from my experience with killing
orchids. Needless to say, I don't grow plants with little tolerance to
extremes in watering. I prefer to have a plant that has a little fudge
factor built in (when it comes to potted plants).

You are in my zone, or damned close, aren't you? . It is a piece of
cake to grow roses in pots, even in droughts. If I can do it busy as I
am, anyone can.

Perhaps. However, I'm not the best with judging moisture in pots.
Indoors, it's not as big of a deal, because I can err on the side of
*not* watering (overwatering tropicals is probably the cause of more
deaths than underwatering). With tropicals, often they'll give you
some clear signs that they finally need water. With roses, by that
point, it's probably too late, especially in little pots exposed to
wind and sunlight. A corollary is the fact that I finally had to give
up and plant two hanging baskets of wave petunias in the ground
because they were drying out so quickly that sometimes even two
waterings a day weren't enough to keep them from starting to wilt. In
the ground, they did a lot better.

Besides, I don't really care for roses in pots.

1. Large enough pot (20 inch, I don't do volume)

Well, yes. That was my point about a bigger watering window. I'm
assuming that Pam was just trying to grow the miniatures in the
original plastic pots.

2. Attention every other day. Just a quick look, then water or don't.

In my climate, the pots almost have to be watered every day (to the
rose standard I mean - the few pots that I have now can dry out
completely for a day without killing the plants - maybe I'm wrong
though and roses can survive the same sort of treatment - remember,
I'm not talking about 20 in. pots but small plastic ones) unless they
get rained on.

How's *that* for a convoluted sentence?

I have yet to have winter kill a potted rose, though I have left lots
of mine out unprotected due to sheer negligence.

Still, wouldn't you agree that the ideal thing would be to protect
them? Also, watering isn't as big of a deal during winter either.

I like growing them in pots as they stay mobile. I can get to know
their growth habits a little and the look of their blooms a lot, then
decide where, if anywhere, they belong in the ground.

And I just don't think of roses as potted plants. Perhaps if I had a
fancy patio or something, I might see things in a different light.

Putting new roses in larger pots also buys those of us with rather
weak backs or crappy hole digging skills a bit of time before we have
to get those babies in the ground. It is a whole lot easier to dig a
few 2X2 holes a month than to dig 15 in a weekend. Not to mention
"possible."

My antipathy for potted roses is my own. Others have my blessing to
grow roses in pots chuckle.

Besides, it takes me less than 5 minutes to dig a 2X2 hole and I
barely break a sweat. That's the blessing of great soil.

What are you doing in this weekend? I am working like a dawg, of
course. Gorgeous cool moist gardening weather, though.

I'm not working my garden, that's for sure. I had a brutal shift at
work last night (it was great but I didn't get home until around 1am
and I was bone tired). Tonight promises the same so I'm marshalling my
energy.

This is the time where I start going dormant myself g. that's in
terms of gardening of course.