i agree, keep a reef :-), wow ph 8.4!!! thats more than sea water. i
wonder how your fish are alive. i also agree do a water change, but, but,
and but....slowly, not an abrupt one, a slow one. r/o is the best, no
mineral trace. i suggest if you are so short in cash, collect rain water,
its really soft, watch out for acid rain and pollution though.

i use to do that with a tank i had almost 17 years ago, i was a student and
as usual had no money, so i collected rain water to do water changes, my
angels loved it. i collected also mosquitoe larvae in a bucket, my angels
were so happy, they had the best of both worlds, soft water and live food.

its all in the mind how you manage to do with no cash, but a nice and simple
tank.

take care

"Shakey" wrote in message
...

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 08:04:03 GMT, "Shakey"
wrote:

I guess ill start with the basics, its a 37 gal all-glass tank with
just
under 2 watts per gal, no CO2 injection yet.
pH 8.4

Pretty high pH for most fish, including tetras and corys.

total hardness 250 ppm
total alkilinity buffer over 300 ppm (not sure cause it was drastically
darker then the highest value of 300 ppm).

Wow! that's a dkH of about 17 (or more.)

Disclaimer: 2 things need to be mentioned, I can not guarntee that there
is
"not" some sort of phosphate buffer, and I hear those really mess with
hardness values, but being so close to 2 lakes I do not think so, as I
would
assume the local DNR would be freaking out, but I don't have a clue how to
go about finding out if that is the case. Second, I had these tests done
at
the local fish store, and they did not have hardness that was displayed in
degrees only ppm.


So anyways would CO2 get my pH down to a more reasonable level? Would
the
use of pH lowering additives be a good idea? Or don't worry about it
and
pray the fish will be fine, and be happy that my current 2 plant types
are
growing like mad? Any sites or personal info welcome on overcoming this
problem, but unfortunately expensive fixes like RO systems are out of
the
question for me, as I am quite limited on spare cash.

You would have to add so much CO2 to lower the pH to 'normal' levels,
that the fish would probably die. Lowering the pH to just 7.2 would
result in CO2 levels of over 32ppm - a tad high.

Mixing your tap water with RO water would be best. A Cheap RO unit
can be had for $60. Some grocery stores located in hard water areas
have RO water dispensers out front - around 10 to 25 cents a gallon.
Get a 6 gallon camping water carrier and fill 'er up! Mix your water
down to a dkH of 7 or so, and THEN inject CO2 to obtain a pH of 6.9 to
end up with a CO2 level of 26ppm - a tolerable level for most, if not
all, fish

Yikes I sorta feared that as I do not have a problem keeping up with water
changes, but if I would have to make runs to get water, I have to be
honest,
I may end up being a bit lazy on that part.


pH Down and other such additives are a BAD idea, IMHO.
They just don't work properly, and many contain phosphates that play
havoc with water chemistry and algae blooms.

Yea thats what I was hearing too, so I was worried about that too as now
the
algae is very much in check.


With more CO2 you might need a little more lighting for best results.

Yes I agree on the lighting, but currently thats all my lighting system
would hold, so just got some fresh bulbs when I made the switch and went
with the newbie fast growing stem plants cause I wasnt sure if they would
even grow but so far so good *knock on wood*


With that kind of water, perhaps you should consider a reef tank. ;-)

Yea thats been most of the reason I was keeping the africans, but I had em
for almost 10 years so it was time for a change, I kept a reef about 15
years ago, but its just too expensive, especially now, since extra cash is
a
bit tight.


This is just MY advice...
Greg


Thanks for the reply.