Anton,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anton Nijhuis"
We are not foolish to evaluate, I think you are making assumptions and
trying to rationalize on their defense.
--------------

Begging your pardon, I never said we are foolish to evaluate and you know
it. Read my post again and you'll notice that I said it is foolish to
evaluate outside of the relevant context. Kindly don't misconstrue my words
or thrust in order to pick it apart.
--------------

I know a professional Japanese bonsai grower, with a B.SC in Agriculture
from a University in Japan plus an apprenticeship with a renowned bonsai
master. His words to me regarding horticultural methods used by 'bonsai
masters' is that their information is really just based on simple trial
& error without a scientific horticultural education. They may do the
right things but sometimes for the wrong reasons. Some of the so called
logical reasoning may sound correct but is not based on fact and
therefore we have the right to evaluate.
---------------

And I now a Japanese health advocate who smokes 2 packs a day and thinks the
world is flat. ;-) Your anecdotal reference doesn't impact the
fundamentally solid horticulture that I'm referencing. I'm talking about
those who DO know what they're doing, not the many whose horticulture is
based on guesses and what they've read in a magazine - anywhere in the
world, including Japan. Sure, we can cite any number of growers who don't
have the relevant understanding we're discussing. That is of no relevance
to those who do have that understanding. C'mon Anton.
---------------

There are no such classifications such as 'Western growing techniques'
or 'Japanese growing techniques' nonsense. Horticulturists,
Agriculturists etc. trained at a recognized Japanese school are no
different than their peers trained in the US, Europe or any where else
in the world at recognized schools. Scientific horticultural training is
universal; all plants require the same basic things. The only difference
in growing practices is how we adapt them to our needs.
----------------

Baloney. "Western growing techniques" is what occurs outside of the
fundamentally sound Japanese growing techniques common to the formidable
bonsai "families" (...schools, traditions, etc...). When you're dealing
with 20 different soil components, 20 different mixture formulae, myriad
different climates, baseless horticulture, misunderstood and half-understood
practices, we're then talking about "Western growing techniques." As I
cited before, too many Western growers who don't have the benefit of the
"family-style" teaching take too many individual techniques/practices out of
context and used without any basis in understanding. We too often just use
a technique we read about or were told about without knowing any of the
relevant and impactful criteria and reasons for using/not using such
techniques. Soil layering is just one example.
----------------

Without any disrespect for any of the authors the last place I will
reference for horticultural information is in a bonsai magazine or book.
Anton
----------------

Given the manner and context in which you seem to want to take such
articles, I do not blame you. This is not, however, grounds for suggesting
that they're necessarily less than credible. It is, rather, your
understanding or judgment that is less than credible in this particular
case. Evaluation based on irrelevant or non-contextual data/criteria result
in flawed judgements. That's simply a fact.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/
zone 8, Texas

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++