Aah ok, i thought cost would be the major factor here. If you can get
big solar panels like that, you'll be fine. What voltage are they? YOu
said it was going to be a monstrosity. I take it something like
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...uct/View/P8907
would't pump enough at only 3 litres a minute? say you get a pump
which draws 5 amps. It'll draw this 5 amps all night and all day.
Thus, to recharge your storage system in the day time, you need an
extra 5 amps, say 6 amps to make up for innefficiencies in the
regulator. But the solar panels rated at 72 watts ( 6 amps x 12
volts)- and we are talking EXPENSIVE here, won't be able to provide
that much power except for a few hours in the day time in mid
afternoon. SO you'd really want to get 140 watts of 12 voltt solar
panels. Even more if you dont want strange things to happen when its
cloudy. As for the batteries, i'd say marine deep cycle lead acid
batteries would be the best solution. Standard car batteries or sealed
batteries arent designed to be discharged deeply. Say ( for winter)
you want to power the pump through the storage for 14 hours. You'd
need to get a 70 amp hour battery, or maybe 10 7 amp hour batteries
inparallel. But thats a bare minimum. These batteries will get damaged
if you let them get discharged fully. I'd reccomend about 100 amp
hours so it will still operate on cloudy days.
I suggested alternatives to the truck lights because i thought you
might think about using mains power or that money was a big issue, but
i think if money isnt an issue, truck lights would probably look the
best.

SO heres our parts list:

140 watts of 12 volt solar panels
100 amp hours of 12 vvolt deep cycle/marine batteries
pump
truck lights
circuit to cut the batteries out if they drop below a certain voltage
level - battery protector, often used in 4wds which have fridges etc.
and a switch so you can turn it off in the rain.

If you dont want to use mains power because you want to do this as a
diy project, i ssstrongly urge you to consider digging a trench (
narrow, about10 cmwide, 1 meter deep or so, from the house to the
waterfall, and letting an electrician wire it up for you, should only
take him/her an hour or 2. you'll have to pay for the wire and
conduit, and you'll have to use a 240 volt pump- electrician will wire
that for you- but youu'll be able to use a much bigger pump. YOu'll
need an outdoor garden lighting transformer as well for the lights,
and thats it ! no batteries, no solar panels, no messing with
regulators and circuits

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:37:52 GMT, "Rod Out back"
wrote:

Arpit,

Cost of the solar setup isnt really something I am too concerned
about(within reason). I am more interested in not using mains power than
comparing the cost of the setup to a mains based setup.
You dont think 5 amps is enough power for the pump? What about 10 amps? The
reason I query this is the solar pump we are installing tomorrow has about 8
of these solar panels, and pumps 6000 gallons of water to a 90 foot head
over some kilomentres! It just seemed to me that a single panel would have
sufficient grunt to lift enough water to keep overflowing a series of rock
pools 2 metres high.

Mind you; I havent done this sort of project before, so you may well be
right...

I am interested in the alternative to truck LED's, if you have some details.
These ones are water-resistant, and are simply attractive because they have
such a wide range of voltage tolerance, and very low power drain(and I
already have some that I ordered the white ones by mistake). Alternatives
gratefully welcomed.

No advice on the frog part, hey?????

Cheers,

Rod.

rodney downs at bigpond dot com; with no spaces in it

"Arpit" wrote in message
.. .
aaah, at last somethinng in gardening i have a bit of knowledge in
in regards to he electrics, your not gonna be able to get sufficient
power from a solar system. plus, it'd be cheaper to use a mains
operated sustem. Itd take 10+ years for a suitable solar system to pay
for itself, and then not even really coz youd have to replace
thebatteries every 2 years.go mains power. as for lights, those'd do
quite nicely if your interested i can give you more details about
what i said above in regards to a solar system, and help you come up
with a simple alternative (waterproof of course) to truck led lights


On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:29:38 GMT, "Rod Out back"
wrote:


"Leanne" wrote in message
...
Hi!

I've always been interested in gardening, especially when water
features
are
involved.

I've finally got the time to make something in the garden i really
want. I
was wondering whether any of you had a guide to building garden
waterfalls,
or if you have done them yourself, how did you do it?

TIA

Leanne.


I have been thinking about the same thing. I have long thought about
making
a water feature monstrosity, and making it attractive to the local frog
bothers, so they might like to vacate the toilet....Negotiations have
been
underway for some years now, but they remain the tenants from hell....

I have the ability to move large rocks(Backhoe & Hi-ab truck crane), as
well
as cut them to approximate shape, but am interested in a water\light
feature that works on solar power. The light is for attracting insects
for
the frog brothers, and so make it a bit of a must-visit place. If I can
make a few little nooks & crannies for them to sleep away the day hours,
I
might just get them to move. Fingers crossed, anyway.

What I envisage is a feature that operates during the day, but continues
for
a number of hours each evening. For this, I will require power storage,
as
well as a daylight sensor for the lights. The lights I have in mind are
a
few of the high intensity white LED lights that are used on heavy
vehicles &
trailers etc(white clearance lights are around $20-$25 each). They draw
very low current(0.5Watt?), handle a range of voltage (8-36V DC)and a few
of
them should be well bright enough to attract passing moths, etc.

My questions to you a

Any better or worse solar pumps to circulate water on a largeish water
feature? Are there different voltage models, or are all the solar ones
12Volt? I would estimate I will have between 400-600 litres in the whole
setup. I expect the pile of rocks to be 2 metres high, with a pond at the
bottom. Pools of water overflowing down eventually into the large pond at
the bottom. Water will be topped up via a float valve. I envisage the
panel
to run this would be in the order of 5 amps of peak power(approx $560 for
the panel), so there should be heaps of power for the pump during
sunlight
hours.

Any obvious problems with this sort of idea?

Is it wise to lay poly sheeting below the whole feature, to reduce ground
soakage? Does this cause other issues in doing so?? I did wonder if I
mightnt be better starting with half-burying one of those large round
poly
troughs, as they can be easily drained, and have a defined wall that
might
keep some undesirables out(I'm thinking of the possibility of cane toads
in
the future). Mind you, that would then require something to hide the poly
side walls, but this mightnt be too large a hurdle to address.

Would sand be a good bottom for such a feature? I would be filtering the
input to the pump, but wondered if sand was the best media. What about
pebbles? I have both sand and pebbles in quantity.

I will need a regulator to handle charging the battery and the feed to
the
solar pump, but I am wondering if I am better off running the pump
directly
from the solar panel or through the battery. Running it direct from the
panel would be more simple, but running it via the battery might give
some
options to run the pump for an hour or so after dark. This might keep a
rocks a little cooler in the summer months.

Are there daylight sensors that would turn one circuit off (solar pump),
at
the same time as turning another on (lights)?

Should I also include a time switch on the lights, to ensure the battery
doesnt get completely discharged every night? If so, has anyone seen one
for
12-36 volt DC systems? I am not competent at building my own
electronics,
but can wire simple gear in myself.

And finally; any good negotiation techniques for the frog brothers? At
this
stage they are holding both loos hostage, and we are getting
desparate........Very, Very Desperate! Talks with Toiletto Frogoli (our
rare
bum-patting Green Tree frog) have failed a number of times, and my last
effort to explain my grand plan was met with a cold eyed boggle, before
he
slid under the rim.....When I wandered past 10 minutes later, the whole
loo
started croaking, so I expect I was being told what I could do with my
grand
vision.

Sigh......Dont you just love wildlife....

Ideas and suggestions welcomed.

Cheers,

Rod.....Out Back