(simy1) wrote:

DigitalVinyl wrote in message . ..
I'm preparing a new vegetable bed that runs between a stone patio and
the edge of a retaining wall.

http://members.aol.com/digitalvinyl66/2004-NewBed.jpg


The ground, especially closer to the retaining wall becomes very
saturated and is somewhat muddy at times. It is always the last part
of the ground to dry out. The entire area is sunken by about 3 inches
from the rest of the backyard and the stone patio.

I am looking at what to do to improve this area.

dig (vin?) this situation is actually quite good for a vegetable
raised bed, given time and preparation. I have a very similar
situation, and right now as I post this the paths in my veg garden are
under water, but in the beds (6 to 12 inches above the paths) all
sorts of overwintering veggies are doing very well. I placed the
garden there on purpose, to cut down on watering. But you will have to
raise the area much more than two inches. Find a source of organic
matter that will get you five inches at least above (you may have to
surround the area with cinder blocks to avoid erosion) and go a few
inches higher over time as you put down new mulch every year. If you
dig organic matter deeply enough, earthworms should break down the
patch down to one foot within two years.

Actually that is a good idea. Just setup raised beds. WOuld at least
guarantee good drrainage for the first 6 inches or so.

1) I have started to tear it up and till the lawn down into it. I am
looking to add peat moss, composted manure/humus. Also I'm going to
use some perlite and water absorbtion crystals (these dissolve after a
few years into potassium). I'm hoping they will absorb more of the
stnding water and give the ground more even moisture.

You don't reall have to use composted stuff, specially if you have
clay and you are digging it in.
I've already turned some of it and it actually look like 6-8 inches of
good topsoil. Saw very little rocks or filler. The only thing that has
gron there for decades is grass, weeds and moss.

Coarse matter makes empty pockets in
the soil that you need at this time. You could consider tilling in
coarse matter, rake it to smooth things some, and finish it all with
one inch of fine compost at the top.


2) The amendments I had planned should raise the ground about an
inch-i'm guessing. Now I'm thinking I should shoot for two inches
higher. I think the runoff from the patio and the surounding lawns
drain to this areas due to slope.

Yes, I have a sloping patio draining into my herb garden (which has
sandy soil, with a wood chip mulch) and I never have to water or
fertilize it. One of the very few smart things I have done. I also
have a mint patch near each gutter on the sunny side of my house.

But this isn't just well watered its muddy. And even the grass dies in
patches and it is bare. Then Moss spring up.

3) I will look at the wal for clogged drainage holes if there are any.

Once the soil is broken, you will enjoy the extra watering.


4) I was looking to use flowers/short veggies along the edges. The
stone patio is north so the tall veggies will be close to it. The
retaining wall will get full sun in summertime. Are there
flowers/veggies that like wet feet? I'm hoping maybe I can make
better choices for the edges to compensate for lack of success in
better drainage.


Some veggies do like wet feet. Amongst them celery, radish,
horseradish and cardoon (started cardoons last night). Several greens
and some beans like fava will tolerate wet feet. Amongst those that do
not like wet feet at all: tomatoes and garlic. Then you have the
veggies that help break down the soil. Mache, fava, chicory,
dandelion, and generally those with tap roots. All these go down four
feet or more, effectively giving you extra capillary drain channels.


I'm wondering if I should create a moat or drainage ditch to transfer
water twoard the edge of the rock wall. Maybe if we get a nice heavy
rain I can go out there and watch for patterns in the runoff.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

I think that the extra bulk of organic matter will make most of the
difference for you, with increased water absorption, food for
earthworms who will break down the soil, pockets of air, and mostly
giving the plants a few inches of soil to breath after a rain. I would
not give up free watering if I had the choice.

If I were you I would have dandelion and radicchio and cardoon in the
last few feet of garden for the first two years (these are all ready
to eat only after first frost in the fall. they will all probably
overwinter there), and have summer veggies closer to the patio. (you
probably need to plant them thickly in the first year, to break down
things as much as possible - you could consider mache as a ground
cover for cardoon). I would start at five inches and, assuming
nutrients are at the right level, just give them some mulch every
year.
Since you are in Zone 7, and the area seems to be sheltered, you could
consider one crop of overwintering fava beans for extra soil break
down, organic matter, and nitrogen fixing.
Thanks.
DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email)
Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound
2nd year gardener