interspersed...

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
"36 hours into Fin Rot removal"

Thank for your information NetMax.
So far I have removed all the plants (floating type).
I am now treating the Angelfish for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn... for 5 days in many sick tanks
As I have 6 pair so that's six sick tanks,,, (say that three times
fast, ;-)
NetMax gave me the impression that after 5 days I should do normal
water changes to the sick tanks for another 9 days so that I can give
the
main 100 gallon tank a full two weeks of no life.

The main 100 gallon tank has a simple UGF.
I have raised the heat as far as my heater can take it
which is 86 degrees. I have also added One whole
cup of aquarium salt. And I am continuing to do
water changes.

Although, I am thinking that I will do a major cleaning today,
I was thinking that I'll add some bleach to the main tank.
(Bleach kills everything)

But this brings up many questions?
Should I?
How much Bleach for a 100 gallon?
Could it break down or weaken the silicone?
Do I add the Bleach to a full tank or a dry tank?
How do I make sure it is save to return the Angels? (bleach free tank)

I'm tempted to let someone else reply, as I'm just one opinion in a sea
of experience, but as you can ignore my comments..I'll blather on...

I never bleach tanks. I bleach dip stuff (1 part bleach in 20 parts
water in a 5g pail, followed by rinsing under water, and final rinse in
another 5g pail with 10x de-chlor). Fine leaved plants get 5-10 seconds.
Coarse leaved get up to a minute. Silk, plastic and rockwork, overnight.
Porous rocks and driftwood don't get bleached, they get scrubbed and
shelved for a few months, or boiled. Gravel gets thrown out, or hot
water rinse and spread out on a plastic tarp over the lawn on a sunny day
to dry, and then goes into storage until I need it again.

An empty glass box is not hard to sterilize (none of the surfaces are
porous). Empty the tank, rinse and clean glass as you are draining. Let
it dry out (I pour a bit of salt into that last remaining cm of water to
more quickly kill any spores at the bottom). Refill with hot water (this
is a delicate procedure, details below). Let soak a couple of hours.
Empty and let dry again. You can use vinegar to rinse it, but I hate the
smell so I don't. While this sounds elaborate, it's a pretty standard
tank reset, except the timing is being forced by a disease.

A hot water rinse can easily crack a glass pane. Like most materials,
glass expands with heat, and if a portion of a pane is much hotter than
the rest, the stress can crack the glass. The trick is to heat the tank
uniformly. I do this by starting with hot water under low pressure and I
mist all the panes uniformly. As the water level rises, I progressively
increase the pressure and keep the water hose going around in a circle
along the top of the tank. I've never broken a tank, but I've seen a few
broken by others.

This tank reset method is just the way I do it, and I've never read
anything on the topic, so ymmv. There is probably more effective methods
(bacterial sterilization techniques used by hospitals are far more
rigorous), but at the other extreme, just dehydration kills most aquatic
organisms, so my method is a compromise using readily available hot water
and drying time.

As already mentioned, fin rot is usually easily cured. If your water
parameters were perfect, then I'd suspect it was bacterial by foreign
entry. If your water took a dip (power failure, mini-cycle etc), then it
could have been fungal with no external vector (easily cured). Very
acidic water can also 'eat' Angelfish fins (also easily cured, raise the
pH gradually and I'd drop a bit of Melafix in). hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thank you for your help in advance,

And of course Thank you for your Prompt Replies!!!!!!

Note: One of my sick tanks was cloudy this morning
so I did a 50% water change.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
It's a roll of the dice. While it'll certainly depend on whether the
origin was fungal or bacterial, the probability of re-occurrence does
decrease with time. After only 5 days of isolation, with cured
Angelfish, I'd guess your odds were 80% for re-occurrence. After 2
weeks, your odds might still be well above 50%. Increasing the
temperature in the 100g will help, but again, it's degrees of
probability, that your pathogen will react negatively to low heat.
Salt
works too, but the concentration has to be considerable.

Treating the whole tank is the only 100% effective way to avoid
reoccurrence, but a tank without fish can be treated without needing
antibiotics (ie: bleach dip, salt, dehydration, scalding water etc).
I
usually take a middle road, doing some degree of cleaning (depending
on
the severity & treatability of the disease) ie: water changes, gravel
vacuuming, changing filter media, making sure there is nothing alive
to
carry the disease vector. If there are no plants, than a hot water
rinse
is easy. If plants, bleach dip or leave them. Then I'll pick a
healthy
fish to be the 'canary'.

Antibiotics are typically 3 to 5 dosages on alternate days, with
option
to repeat entire treatment 3 or 4 times. By treating the fish
off-line,
I find 1 treatment usually effective, while in-tank, 2 treatments are
more typical. Moving them back into the main tank, I might put in a
single day's dosage and then avoid water changes for a week or two
while
keeping them under observation. It's really a crap shoot, and you
play
it as you go along. Stress kills fish and medications and tank moves
are
also stressful. Strategy may be determined by the value of the fish,
while daily decisions are made according to observations (appetite,
colour, symptoms etc).

Perhaps Frank in a.a will have some ideas on how to sterilize a 100g
planted(?) tank without using antibiotics or destroying the plants.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
Thanks for the Prompt Reply,
You made me laugh a couple of times,,,
Yes, it is my Angels that I am worried about.

So is treating the whole main tank, the only way to avoid
reoccurrence?

Many Thanks in advance.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote
in
message ...
I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank with 12 angelfish, or 6
breeding
pair.
I discovered that I have a couple that stayed up in the corner,
at
the
time
I thought it was just what fish do, territorial and stuff.

Weeks later I noticed their fins starting to look as if they
are
melted.

Yesterday, I removed all the angels and put them in a sick tank
and I am now treating them for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn...

My question is about the Main tank,
I have removed the plants and turned up the heater to 86
decrees
and
added
a hand full of aquarium salt.

My question is what should I have done, if anything to make
sure
that
there is nothing nasty in the main tank when I return my angels
after
five
days
of the sick tank???????????????

Many Thanks in advance
--
Sir Douglas Cook


Your tank or a customers? The best way to wipe out bacterial
infections,
is to treat the main tank. However, the fastest way to cure your
fish is
to get them out and treat them in new water, so ymmv. I've never
read
any reference to the time it takes for bacteria to die-off in an
empty
tank. All sterilizing techniques will also wipe out your
biological
filtration, and most delicate plants. I've sometimes used a
combination
of massive water changes, gravel vacuuming and changing all
filter
media
(for planted tanks). Unplanted tanks are much easier. Fin rot
might
be
fungal or bacterial. If fungal, it might have coincided with
something
else parasitic. This fungus/parasite combo is a bit easier to
eradicate
that a stubborn bacterial fin rot, so again ymmv.

Personal advice (and not backed by any documentation), some of
these
diseases are very species specific. There is a good chance that
another
type of fish would be unaffected if dropped into the 100g right
now,
and
if the Angels were cured in the hospital tank, that they would
relapse in
the 100g. *I hate fish diseases*. Whatever your strategy, you
might
need
to go one last round of medication after you move the cured
Angels
back
into the 100g, just be prepared and watching for it. On the up
side,
their immune system will be in far better shape for a gentle
round 2,
if
it occurs.
--
www.NetMax.tk