I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank with 12 angelfish, or 6 breeding pair.
I discovered that I have a couple that stayed up in the corner, at the time
I thought it was just what fish do, territorial and stuff.

Weeks later I noticed their fins starting to look as if they are melted.

Yesterday, I removed all the angels and put them in a sick tank
and I am now treating them for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn...

My question is about the Main tank,
I have removed the plants and turned up the heater to 86 decrees and added
a hand full of aquarium salt.

My question is what should I have done, if anything to make sure that
there is nothing nasty in the main tank when I return my angels after five
days
of the sick tank???????????????

Many Thanks in advance
--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank with 12 angelfish, or 6 breeding
pair.
I discovered that I have a couple that stayed up in the corner, at the
time
I thought it was just what fish do, territorial and stuff.

Weeks later I noticed their fins starting to look as if they are
melted.

Yesterday, I removed all the angels and put them in a sick tank
and I am now treating them for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn...

My question is about the Main tank,
I have removed the plants and turned up the heater to 86 decrees and
added
a hand full of aquarium salt.

My question is what should I have done, if anything to make sure that
there is nothing nasty in the main tank when I return my angels after
five
days
of the sick tank???????????????

Many Thanks in advance
--
Sir Douglas Cook


Your tank or a customers? The best way to wipe out bacterial infections,
is to treat the main tank. However, the fastest way to cure your fish is
to get them out and treat them in new water, so ymmv. I've never read
any reference to the time it takes for bacteria to die-off in an empty
tank. All sterilizing techniques will also wipe out your biological
filtration, and most delicate plants. I've sometimes used a combination
of massive water changes, gravel vacuuming and changing all filter media
(for planted tanks). Unplanted tanks are much easier. Fin rot might be
fungal or bacterial. If fungal, it might have coincided with something
else parasitic. This fungus/parasite combo is a bit easier to eradicate
that a stubborn bacterial fin rot, so again ymmv.

Personal advice (and not backed by any documentation), some of these
diseases are very species specific. There is a good chance that another
type of fish would be unaffected if dropped into the 100g right now, and
if the Angels were cured in the hospital tank, that they would relapse in
the 100g. *I hate fish diseases*. Whatever your strategy, you might need
to go one last round of medication after you move the cured Angels back
into the 100g, just be prepared and watching for it. On the up side,
their immune system will be in far better shape for a gentle round 2, if
it occurs.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thanks for the Prompt Reply,
You made me laugh a couple of times,,,
Yes, it is my Angels that I am worried about.

So is treating the whole main tank, the only way to avoid reoccurrence?

Many Thanks in advance.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank with 12 angelfish, or 6 breeding
pair.
I discovered that I have a couple that stayed up in the corner, at the
time
I thought it was just what fish do, territorial and stuff.

Weeks later I noticed their fins starting to look as if they are
melted.

Yesterday, I removed all the angels and put them in a sick tank
and I am now treating them for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn...

My question is about the Main tank,
I have removed the plants and turned up the heater to 86 decrees and
added
a hand full of aquarium salt.

My question is what should I have done, if anything to make sure that
there is nothing nasty in the main tank when I return my angels after
five
days
of the sick tank???????????????

Many Thanks in advance
--
Sir Douglas Cook


Your tank or a customers? The best way to wipe out bacterial infections,
is to treat the main tank. However, the fastest way to cure your fish is
to get them out and treat them in new water, so ymmv. I've never read
any reference to the time it takes for bacteria to die-off in an empty
tank. All sterilizing techniques will also wipe out your biological
filtration, and most delicate plants. I've sometimes used a combination
of massive water changes, gravel vacuuming and changing all filter media
(for planted tanks). Unplanted tanks are much easier. Fin rot might be
fungal or bacterial. If fungal, it might have coincided with something
else parasitic. This fungus/parasite combo is a bit easier to eradicate
that a stubborn bacterial fin rot, so again ymmv.

Personal advice (and not backed by any documentation), some of these
diseases are very species specific. There is a good chance that another
type of fish would be unaffected if dropped into the 100g right now, and
if the Angels were cured in the hospital tank, that they would relapse in
the 100g. *I hate fish diseases*. Whatever your strategy, you might need
to go one last round of medication after you move the cured Angels back
into the 100g, just be prepared and watching for it. On the up side,
their immune system will be in far better shape for a gentle round 2, if
it occurs.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:80092 rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc:158633 rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids:88906 rec.aquaria.tech:26886 alt.aquaria:176288

It's a roll of the dice. While it'll certainly depend on whether the
origin was fungal or bacterial, the probability of re-occurrence does
decrease with time. After only 5 days of isolation, with cured
Angelfish, I'd guess your odds were 80% for re-occurrence. After 2
weeks, your odds might still be well above 50%. Increasing the
temperature in the 100g will help, but again, it's degrees of
probability, that your pathogen will react negatively to low heat. Salt
works too, but the concentration has to be considerable.

Treating the whole tank is the only 100% effective way to avoid
reoccurrence, but a tank without fish can be treated without needing
antibiotics (ie: bleach dip, salt, dehydration, scalding water etc). I
usually take a middle road, doing some degree of cleaning (depending on
the severity & treatability of the disease) ie: water changes, gravel
vacuuming, changing filter media, making sure there is nothing alive to
carry the disease vector. If there are no plants, than a hot water rinse
is easy. If plants, bleach dip or leave them. Then I'll pick a healthy
fish to be the 'canary'.

Antibiotics are typically 3 to 5 dosages on alternate days, with option
to repeat entire treatment 3 or 4 times. By treating the fish off-line,
I find 1 treatment usually effective, while in-tank, 2 treatments are
more typical. Moving them back into the main tank, I might put in a
single day's dosage and then avoid water changes for a week or two while
keeping them under observation. It's really a crap shoot, and you play
it as you go along. Stress kills fish and medications and tank moves are
also stressful. Strategy may be determined by the value of the fish,
while daily decisions are made according to observations (appetite,
colour, symptoms etc).

Perhaps Frank in a.a will have some ideas on how to sterilize a 100g
planted(?) tank without using antibiotics or destroying the plants.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
Thanks for the Prompt Reply,
You made me laugh a couple of times,,,
Yes, it is my Angels that I am worried about.

So is treating the whole main tank, the only way to avoid reoccurrence?

Many Thanks in advance.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank with 12 angelfish, or 6
breeding
pair.
I discovered that I have a couple that stayed up in the corner, at
the
time
I thought it was just what fish do, territorial and stuff.

Weeks later I noticed their fins starting to look as if they are
melted.

Yesterday, I removed all the angels and put them in a sick tank
and I am now treating them for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn...

My question is about the Main tank,
I have removed the plants and turned up the heater to 86 decrees
and
added
a hand full of aquarium salt.

My question is what should I have done, if anything to make sure
that
there is nothing nasty in the main tank when I return my angels
after
five
days
of the sick tank???????????????

Many Thanks in advance
--
Sir Douglas Cook


Your tank or a customers? The best way to wipe out bacterial
infections,
is to treat the main tank. However, the fastest way to cure your
fish is
to get them out and treat them in new water, so ymmv. I've never
read
any reference to the time it takes for bacteria to die-off in an
empty
tank. All sterilizing techniques will also wipe out your biological
filtration, and most delicate plants. I've sometimes used a
combination
of massive water changes, gravel vacuuming and changing all filter
media
(for planted tanks). Unplanted tanks are much easier. Fin rot might
be
fungal or bacterial. If fungal, it might have coincided with
something
else parasitic. This fungus/parasite combo is a bit easier to
eradicate
that a stubborn bacterial fin rot, so again ymmv.

Personal advice (and not backed by any documentation), some of these
diseases are very species specific. There is a good chance that
another
type of fish would be unaffected if dropped into the 100g right now,
and
if the Angels were cured in the hospital tank, that they would
relapse in
the 100g. *I hate fish diseases*. Whatever your strategy, you might
need
to go one last round of medication after you move the cured Angels
back
into the 100g, just be prepared and watching for it. On the up side,
their immune system will be in far better shape for a gentle round 2,
if
it occurs.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"NetMax" wrote in message
...

Perhaps Frank in a.a will have some ideas on how to sterilize a 100g
planted(?) tank without using antibiotics or destroying the plants.
--


I'm just wondering why we are going to such extremes of sterilization for a
simple case of fin rot without first suggesting good old daily water
changes?
The subject of water quality was not even mentioned.
I have personally found that super clean water does more for bacterial
problems than all the meds and cleaning in the world. Addressing an immune
system that falls victim to opportunistic bacteria seems to me key as well.

Just curious why this particular poster was not even asked about frequency
of water changes or quality of diet??
Unless you know him personally and have been witnessing daily water changes?


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/discus.htm

Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:80096 rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc:158648

"Toni" wrote in message
nk.net...

"NetMax" wrote in message
...

Perhaps Frank in a.a will have some ideas on how to sterilize a 100g
planted(?) tank without using antibiotics or destroying the plants.
--


I'm just wondering why we are going to such extremes of sterilization
for a
simple case of fin rot without first suggesting good old daily water
changes?
The subject of water quality was not even mentioned.
I have personally found that super clean water does more for bacterial
problems than all the meds and cleaning in the world. Addressing an
immune
system that falls victim to opportunistic bacteria seems to me key as
well.

Just curious why this particular poster was not even asked about
frequency
of water changes or quality of diet??
Unless you know him personally and have been witnessing daily water
changes?


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/discus.htm



No disagreement from me. I skipped it for several reasons i) a newbie
would not normally find themselves with 6 breeding pairs of Angelfish in
a 100g tank ;~), ii) Douglas has posted before, iii) what he is doing
sounds too much like what I would find myself doing (even to the
medication he chose), and finally he lists himself as an Aquarium
Maintenance Man for hire. Also the specific question was more along the
lines of time & method to sterilize an empty tank, rather than the usual
'how do I cure my sick fish'.

A lot of my customers are experienced hobbyists, and I hate to grill them
on basic procedures when they might know more about aquarium management
than me, but I still try 'delicately', but in this instance, I skipped it
entirely.. my bad.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"36 hours into Fin Rot removal"

Thank for your information NetMax.
So far I have removed all the plants (floating type).
I am now treating the Angelfish for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn... for 5 days in many sick tanks
As I have 6 pair so that's six sick tanks,,, (say that three times fast, ;-)
NetMax gave me the impression that after 5 days I should do normal
water changes to the sick tanks for another 9 days so that I can give the
main 100 gallon tank a full two weeks of no life.

The main 100 gallon tank has a simple UGF.
I have raised the heat as far as my heater can take it
which is 86 degrees. I have also added One whole
cup of aquarium salt. And I am continuing to do
water changes.

Although, I am thinking that I will do a major cleaning today,
I was thinking that I'll add some bleach to the main tank.
(Bleach kills everything)

But this brings up many questions?
Should I?
How much Bleach for a 100 gallon?
Could it break down or weaken the silicone?
Do I add the Bleach to a full tank or a dry tank?
How do I make sure it is save to return the Angels? (bleach free tank)

Thank you for your help in advance,

And of course Thank you for your Prompt Replies!!!!!!

Note: One of my sick tanks was cloudy this morning
so I did a 50% water change.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
It's a roll of the dice. While it'll certainly depend on whether the
origin was fungal or bacterial, the probability of re-occurrence does
decrease with time. After only 5 days of isolation, with cured
Angelfish, I'd guess your odds were 80% for re-occurrence. After 2
weeks, your odds might still be well above 50%. Increasing the
temperature in the 100g will help, but again, it's degrees of
probability, that your pathogen will react negatively to low heat. Salt
works too, but the concentration has to be considerable.

Treating the whole tank is the only 100% effective way to avoid
reoccurrence, but a tank without fish can be treated without needing
antibiotics (ie: bleach dip, salt, dehydration, scalding water etc). I
usually take a middle road, doing some degree of cleaning (depending on
the severity & treatability of the disease) ie: water changes, gravel
vacuuming, changing filter media, making sure there is nothing alive to
carry the disease vector. If there are no plants, than a hot water rinse
is easy. If plants, bleach dip or leave them. Then I'll pick a healthy
fish to be the 'canary'.

Antibiotics are typically 3 to 5 dosages on alternate days, with option
to repeat entire treatment 3 or 4 times. By treating the fish off-line,
I find 1 treatment usually effective, while in-tank, 2 treatments are
more typical. Moving them back into the main tank, I might put in a
single day's dosage and then avoid water changes for a week or two while
keeping them under observation. It's really a crap shoot, and you play
it as you go along. Stress kills fish and medications and tank moves are
also stressful. Strategy may be determined by the value of the fish,
while daily decisions are made according to observations (appetite,
colour, symptoms etc).

Perhaps Frank in a.a will have some ideas on how to sterilize a 100g
planted(?) tank without using antibiotics or destroying the plants.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
Thanks for the Prompt Reply,
You made me laugh a couple of times,,,
Yes, it is my Angels that I am worried about.

So is treating the whole main tank, the only way to avoid reoccurrence?

Many Thanks in advance.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank with 12 angelfish, or 6
breeding
pair.
I discovered that I have a couple that stayed up in the corner, at
the
time
I thought it was just what fish do, territorial and stuff.

Weeks later I noticed their fins starting to look as if they are
melted.

Yesterday, I removed all the angels and put them in a sick tank
and I am now treating them for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn...

My question is about the Main tank,
I have removed the plants and turned up the heater to 86 decrees
and
added
a hand full of aquarium salt.

My question is what should I have done, if anything to make sure
that
there is nothing nasty in the main tank when I return my angels
after
five
days
of the sick tank???????????????

Many Thanks in advance
--
Sir Douglas Cook


Your tank or a customers? The best way to wipe out bacterial
infections,
is to treat the main tank. However, the fastest way to cure your
fish is
to get them out and treat them in new water, so ymmv. I've never
read
any reference to the time it takes for bacteria to die-off in an
empty
tank. All sterilizing techniques will also wipe out your biological
filtration, and most delicate plants. I've sometimes used a
combination
of massive water changes, gravel vacuuming and changing all filter
media
(for planted tanks). Unplanted tanks are much easier. Fin rot might
be
fungal or bacterial. If fungal, it might have coincided with
something
else parasitic. This fungus/parasite combo is a bit easier to
eradicate
that a stubborn bacterial fin rot, so again ymmv.

Personal advice (and not backed by any documentation), some of these
diseases are very species specific. There is a good chance that
another
type of fish would be unaffected if dropped into the 100g right now,
and
if the Angels were cured in the hospital tank, that they would
relapse in
the 100g. *I hate fish diseases*. Whatever your strategy, you might
need
to go one last round of medication after you move the cured Angels
back
into the 100g, just be prepared and watching for it. On the up side,
their immune system will be in far better shape for a gentle round 2,
if
it occurs.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"NetMax" wrote in message
...

A lot of my customers are experienced hobbyists, and I hate to grill them
on basic procedures when they might know more about aquarium management
than me, but I still try 'delicately', but in this instance, I skipped it
entirely.. my bad.



Nah- I figured you knew him.
I was thinking more of all the newbies reading that fin rot = double
antibiotics and tank tear downs.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/discus.htm

interspersed...

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
"36 hours into Fin Rot removal"

Thank for your information NetMax.
So far I have removed all the plants (floating type).
I am now treating the Angelfish for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn... for 5 days in many sick tanks
As I have 6 pair so that's six sick tanks,,, (say that three times
fast, ;-)
NetMax gave me the impression that after 5 days I should do normal
water changes to the sick tanks for another 9 days so that I can give
the
main 100 gallon tank a full two weeks of no life.

The main 100 gallon tank has a simple UGF.
I have raised the heat as far as my heater can take it
which is 86 degrees. I have also added One whole
cup of aquarium salt. And I am continuing to do
water changes.

Although, I am thinking that I will do a major cleaning today,
I was thinking that I'll add some bleach to the main tank.
(Bleach kills everything)

But this brings up many questions?
Should I?
How much Bleach for a 100 gallon?
Could it break down or weaken the silicone?
Do I add the Bleach to a full tank or a dry tank?
How do I make sure it is save to return the Angels? (bleach free tank)

I'm tempted to let someone else reply, as I'm just one opinion in a sea
of experience, but as you can ignore my comments..I'll blather on...

I never bleach tanks. I bleach dip stuff (1 part bleach in 20 parts
water in a 5g pail, followed by rinsing under water, and final rinse in
another 5g pail with 10x de-chlor). Fine leaved plants get 5-10 seconds.
Coarse leaved get up to a minute. Silk, plastic and rockwork, overnight.
Porous rocks and driftwood don't get bleached, they get scrubbed and
shelved for a few months, or boiled. Gravel gets thrown out, or hot
water rinse and spread out on a plastic tarp over the lawn on a sunny day
to dry, and then goes into storage until I need it again.

An empty glass box is not hard to sterilize (none of the surfaces are
porous). Empty the tank, rinse and clean glass as you are draining. Let
it dry out (I pour a bit of salt into that last remaining cm of water to
more quickly kill any spores at the bottom). Refill with hot water (this
is a delicate procedure, details below). Let soak a couple of hours.
Empty and let dry again. You can use vinegar to rinse it, but I hate the
smell so I don't. While this sounds elaborate, it's a pretty standard
tank reset, except the timing is being forced by a disease.

A hot water rinse can easily crack a glass pane. Like most materials,
glass expands with heat, and if a portion of a pane is much hotter than
the rest, the stress can crack the glass. The trick is to heat the tank
uniformly. I do this by starting with hot water under low pressure and I
mist all the panes uniformly. As the water level rises, I progressively
increase the pressure and keep the water hose going around in a circle
along the top of the tank. I've never broken a tank, but I've seen a few
broken by others.

This tank reset method is just the way I do it, and I've never read
anything on the topic, so ymmv. There is probably more effective methods
(bacterial sterilization techniques used by hospitals are far more
rigorous), but at the other extreme, just dehydration kills most aquatic
organisms, so my method is a compromise using readily available hot water
and drying time.

As already mentioned, fin rot is usually easily cured. If your water
parameters were perfect, then I'd suspect it was bacterial by foreign
entry. If your water took a dip (power failure, mini-cycle etc), then it
could have been fungal with no external vector (easily cured). Very
acidic water can also 'eat' Angelfish fins (also easily cured, raise the
pH gradually and I'd drop a bit of Melafix in). hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thank you for your help in advance,

And of course Thank you for your Prompt Replies!!!!!!

Note: One of my sick tanks was cloudy this morning
so I did a 50% water change.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
It's a roll of the dice. While it'll certainly depend on whether the
origin was fungal or bacterial, the probability of re-occurrence does
decrease with time. After only 5 days of isolation, with cured
Angelfish, I'd guess your odds were 80% for re-occurrence. After 2
weeks, your odds might still be well above 50%. Increasing the
temperature in the 100g will help, but again, it's degrees of
probability, that your pathogen will react negatively to low heat.
Salt
works too, but the concentration has to be considerable.

Treating the whole tank is the only 100% effective way to avoid
reoccurrence, but a tank without fish can be treated without needing
antibiotics (ie: bleach dip, salt, dehydration, scalding water etc).
I
usually take a middle road, doing some degree of cleaning (depending
on
the severity & treatability of the disease) ie: water changes, gravel
vacuuming, changing filter media, making sure there is nothing alive
to
carry the disease vector. If there are no plants, than a hot water
rinse
is easy. If plants, bleach dip or leave them. Then I'll pick a
healthy
fish to be the 'canary'.

Antibiotics are typically 3 to 5 dosages on alternate days, with
option
to repeat entire treatment 3 or 4 times. By treating the fish
off-line,
I find 1 treatment usually effective, while in-tank, 2 treatments are
more typical. Moving them back into the main tank, I might put in a
single day's dosage and then avoid water changes for a week or two
while
keeping them under observation. It's really a crap shoot, and you
play
it as you go along. Stress kills fish and medications and tank moves
are
also stressful. Strategy may be determined by the value of the fish,
while daily decisions are made according to observations (appetite,
colour, symptoms etc).

Perhaps Frank in a.a will have some ideas on how to sterilize a 100g
planted(?) tank without using antibiotics or destroying the plants.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
Thanks for the Prompt Reply,
You made me laugh a couple of times,,,
Yes, it is my Angels that I am worried about.

So is treating the whole main tank, the only way to avoid
reoccurrence?

Many Thanks in advance.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote
in
message ...
I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank with 12 angelfish, or 6
breeding
pair.
I discovered that I have a couple that stayed up in the corner,
at
the
time
I thought it was just what fish do, territorial and stuff.

Weeks later I noticed their fins starting to look as if they
are
melted.

Yesterday, I removed all the angels and put them in a sick tank
and I am now treating them for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn...

My question is about the Main tank,
I have removed the plants and turned up the heater to 86
decrees
and
added
a hand full of aquarium salt.

My question is what should I have done, if anything to make
sure
that
there is nothing nasty in the main tank when I return my angels
after
five
days
of the sick tank???????????????

Many Thanks in advance
--
Sir Douglas Cook


Your tank or a customers? The best way to wipe out bacterial
infections,
is to treat the main tank. However, the fastest way to cure your
fish is
to get them out and treat them in new water, so ymmv. I've never
read
any reference to the time it takes for bacteria to die-off in an
empty
tank. All sterilizing techniques will also wipe out your
biological
filtration, and most delicate plants. I've sometimes used a
combination
of massive water changes, gravel vacuuming and changing all
filter
media
(for planted tanks). Unplanted tanks are much easier. Fin rot
might
be
fungal or bacterial. If fungal, it might have coincided with
something
else parasitic. This fungus/parasite combo is a bit easier to
eradicate
that a stubborn bacterial fin rot, so again ymmv.

Personal advice (and not backed by any documentation), some of
these
diseases are very species specific. There is a good chance that
another
type of fish would be unaffected if dropped into the 100g right
now,
and
if the Angels were cured in the hospital tank, that they would
relapse in
the 100g. *I hate fish diseases*. Whatever your strategy, you
might
need
to go one last round of medication after you move the cured
Angels
back
into the 100g, just be prepared and watching for it. On the up
side,
their immune system will be in far better shape for a gentle
round 2,
if
it occurs.
--
www.NetMax.tk

1 cup over a 100G tank is not a lot, you need a gravity meter to check for
the level amount of change the salt is making. While the fish are out you
can dose the tank high, and before returning the fish you can do a water
change or 2 to bring the salt/gravity levels back down. I am not sure of the
levels that a angle can tolerate, fresh water is 1.000 and salt water is
1.022 (or so), a 4 foot tank uses about 10kg to get to sea water specs.
Adding salt is assuming the bacteria or whatever is not salt tolerant.

Note: A cheap source of salt used for temporary water conditioning is pool
salt, it's only a few dollars for a very large bag. It's not very clean, so
don't use it for your fish. Use it to aid in killing off the bacteria/fungus
problem, then change out the tank water.

No matter what you do, your filter is going to cope it full on. Before doing
much to the main tank, keep some old filter material safe and wet and after
the main tank has been cured you can return the old filter material back to
the filters then start by adding your filter cycling bacteria or what ever
brand you use to help cycle you tank.

You also have to look into what started it all off, was it water temp
changes (maybe 1 or more deg in less then 24 hours), if so find a way to get
a more stable water temp. If it's water quality, be it ammonia, or nitrites
and nitrates then check that your filters are clean most of the time.

Under gravel filters are my favourite, some don't like them, but if you ask
me the tank water always looks clearer. Anyhow, you need a good thick bed of
gravel in my opinion, fine and course gravel. For such a large tank I'd have
one section of the bottom that isn't affected by the water flow from the
UGF. The important thing to remember with running a UGF, you much do gravel
cleaning. I find that you get the 'Old Tank Syndrome' faster if you don't
clean it good. Once a year at least I siphon out the gravel into buckets and
wash them well with a garden hose.

I don't know a lot about where they start or why, but like most nasty stuff
they like the areas where waste settles, so thats the bottom of the tank and
the filters. And they are the places you need to pay attention to.

For hang on filters I once tried an experiment but adding a drain pipe to
the bottom of the filter closed off by a vavle, once in a while i'd open the
valve and dump the water from it removing the waste rather fast, it was much
easier in the long term for filter cleaning, but I sold that tank and set-up
and never remade the same set-up, I guess I should as it was very effective.
If was very easy to look at the side of the filter and see any waste buildup
and just give the valve a quick turn and it was all gone.

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in message
...
"36 hours into Fin Rot removal"

Thank for your information NetMax.
So far I have removed all the plants (floating type).
I am now treating the Angelfish for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn... for 5 days in many sick tanks
As I have 6 pair so that's six sick tanks,,, (say that three times fast,
;-)
NetMax gave me the impression that after 5 days I should do normal
water changes to the sick tanks for another 9 days so that I can give the
main 100 gallon tank a full two weeks of no life.

The main 100 gallon tank has a simple UGF.
I have raised the heat as far as my heater can take it
which is 86 degrees. I have also added One whole
cup of aquarium salt. And I am continuing to do
water changes.

Although, I am thinking that I will do a major cleaning today,
I was thinking that I'll add some bleach to the main tank.
(Bleach kills everything)

But this brings up many questions?
Should I?
How much Bleach for a 100 gallon?
Could it break down or weaken the silicone?
Do I add the Bleach to a full tank or a dry tank?
How do I make sure it is save to return the Angels? (bleach free tank)

Thank you for your help in advance,

And of course Thank you for your Prompt Replies!!!!!!

Note: One of my sick tanks was cloudy this morning
so I did a 50% water change.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
It's a roll of the dice. While it'll certainly depend on whether the
origin was fungal or bacterial, the probability of re-occurrence does
decrease with time. After only 5 days of isolation, with cured
Angelfish, I'd guess your odds were 80% for re-occurrence. After 2
weeks, your odds might still be well above 50%. Increasing the
temperature in the 100g will help, but again, it's degrees of
probability, that your pathogen will react negatively to low heat. Salt
works too, but the concentration has to be considerable.

Treating the whole tank is the only 100% effective way to avoid
reoccurrence, but a tank without fish can be treated without needing
antibiotics (ie: bleach dip, salt, dehydration, scalding water etc). I
usually take a middle road, doing some degree of cleaning (depending on
the severity & treatability of the disease) ie: water changes, gravel
vacuuming, changing filter media, making sure there is nothing alive to
carry the disease vector. If there are no plants, than a hot water
rinse
is easy. If plants, bleach dip or leave them. Then I'll pick a healthy
fish to be the 'canary'.

Antibiotics are typically 3 to 5 dosages on alternate days, with option
to repeat entire treatment 3 or 4 times. By treating the fish off-line,
I find 1 treatment usually effective, while in-tank, 2 treatments are
more typical. Moving them back into the main tank, I might put in a
single day's dosage and then avoid water changes for a week or two while
keeping them under observation. It's really a crap shoot, and you play
it as you go along. Stress kills fish and medications and tank moves
are
also stressful. Strategy may be determined by the value of the fish,
while daily decisions are made according to observations (appetite,
colour, symptoms etc).

Perhaps Frank in a.a will have some ideas on how to sterilize a 100g
planted(?) tank without using antibiotics or destroying the plants.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
Thanks for the Prompt Reply,
You made me laugh a couple of times,,,
Yes, it is my Angels that I am worried about.

So is treating the whole main tank, the only way to avoid
reoccurrence?

Many Thanks in advance.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in
message ...
I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank with 12 angelfish, or 6
breeding
pair.
I discovered that I have a couple that stayed up in the corner, at
the
time
I thought it was just what fish do, territorial and stuff.

Weeks later I noticed their fins starting to look as if they are
melted.

Yesterday, I removed all the angels and put them in a sick tank
and I am now treating them for "Fin Rot".
With, Maroxy and Maracyn...

My question is about the Main tank,
I have removed the plants and turned up the heater to 86 decrees
and
added
a hand full of aquarium salt.

My question is what should I have done, if anything to make sure
that
there is nothing nasty in the main tank when I return my angels
after
five
days
of the sick tank???????????????

Many Thanks in advance
--
Sir Douglas Cook


Your tank or a customers? The best way to wipe out bacterial
infections,
is to treat the main tank. However, the fastest way to cure your
fish is
to get them out and treat them in new water, so ymmv. I've never
read
any reference to the time it takes for bacteria to die-off in an
empty
tank. All sterilizing techniques will also wipe out your biological
filtration, and most delicate plants. I've sometimes used a
combination
of massive water changes, gravel vacuuming and changing all filter
media
(for planted tanks). Unplanted tanks are much easier. Fin rot
might
be
fungal or bacterial. If fungal, it might have coincided with
something
else parasitic. This fungus/parasite combo is a bit easier to
eradicate
that a stubborn bacterial fin rot, so again ymmv.

Personal advice (and not backed by any documentation), some of these
diseases are very species specific. There is a good chance that
another
type of fish would be unaffected if dropped into the 100g right now,
and
if the Angels were cured in the hospital tank, that they would
relapse in
the 100g. *I hate fish diseases*. Whatever your strategy, you might
need
to go one last round of medication after you move the cured Angels
back
into the 100g, just be prepared and watching for it. On the up
side,
their immune system will be in far better shape for a gentle round
2,
if
it occurs.
--
www.NetMax.tk

First of all, with all due respect... I would not have used Mardel
Products (Maracyn, Maroxy, etc.) to treat ANYTHING!!! After having
worked in the aquarium trade for the better part of a decade now, and
at one point being forced to use Mardel medications on fish (and I
followed the package instructions to the letter)... My perception is
that Mardel medications have a ridiculously bloated price, are often
ineffective, or if they do have some effect, it is usually to cloud
your water and kill off most of your beneficial bacteria. In the
remote chance that they DO treat any diseases, it usually takes 3-5
times longer than many cheaper, safer, lower-dosage medications on the
market. If you need a recommendation on a cheap, effective
medication, instead use Pimafix (by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals)... it
is safe for fresh or sal****er, safe for inverts, and works VERY
quickly at clearing up most bacterial and fungal issues in fish. On
top of that it is plant-derived, not a synthetically-produced
antibiotic. Just remember that as with any medication, read the
instructions and follow them closely. I used this same product as a
last resort on a tank full of seemingly-doomed Discus that had just
about every known malady: no appetite, fin rot, cloudy bacterial
slime-coating, and were gasping at the surface of the water. Within
48 hours, most of their symptoms had cleared, they were eating
heartily, and were visibly gaining healthy body mass again.

Good luck to you.

Wow, that was a great message!

I wish I received this message sooner, Thank.

Your right, I followed the directions to the letter and
I got cloudy water and it seem that it has also kill some
of my beneficial bacteria and my fish started to get jumpyyyyyy.
I was afraid. So.

I spent all day cleaning my Main tank and
returning my angels back to the main tank.

I love the smell of Pimafix (by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals)...
I use it in my breeding jars and aeration.

Again, I thank you for the information and
I'll get back and share the results.

Later.


--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"Dances With Ferrets" wrote in message
om...
First of all, with all due respect... I would not have used Mardel
Products (Maracyn, Maroxy, etc.) to treat ANYTHING!!! After having
worked in the aquarium trade for the better part of a decade now, and
at one point being forced to use Mardel medications on fish (and I
followed the package instructions to the letter)... My perception is
that Mardel medications have a ridiculously bloated price, are often
ineffective, or if they do have some effect, it is usually to cloud
your water and kill off most of your beneficial bacteria. In the
remote chance that they DO treat any diseases, it usually takes 3-5
times longer than many cheaper, safer, lower-dosage medications on the
market. If you need a recommendation on a cheap, effective
medication, instead use Pimafix (by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals)... it
is safe for fresh or sal****er, safe for inverts, and works VERY
quickly at clearing up most bacterial and fungal issues in fish. On
top of that it is plant-derived, not a synthetically-produced
antibiotic. Just remember that as with any medication, read the
instructions and follow them closely. I used this same product as a
last resort on a tank full of seemingly-doomed Discus that had just
about every known malady: no appetite, fin rot, cloudy bacterial
slime-coating, and were gasping at the surface of the water. Within
48 hours, most of their symptoms had cleared, they were eating
heartily, and were visibly gaining healthy body mass again.

Good luck to you.

"Dances With Ferrets" wrote in message
om...
First of all, with all due respect... I would not have used Mardel
Products (Maracyn, Maroxy, etc.) to treat ANYTHING!!! After having
worked in the aquarium trade for the better part of a decade now, and
at one point being forced to use Mardel medications on fish (and I
followed the package instructions to the letter)... My perception is
that Mardel medications have a ridiculously bloated price, are often
ineffective, or if they do have some effect, it is usually to cloud
your water and kill off most of your beneficial bacteria. In the
remote chance that they DO treat any diseases, it usually takes 3-5
times longer than many cheaper, safer, lower-dosage medications on the
market. If you need a recommendation on a cheap, effective
medication, instead use Pimafix (by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals)... it
is safe for fresh or sal****er, safe for inverts, and works VERY
quickly at clearing up most bacterial and fungal issues in fish. On
top of that it is plant-derived, not a synthetically-produced
antibiotic. Just remember that as with any medication, read the
instructions and follow them closely. I used this same product as a
last resort on a tank full of seemingly-doomed Discus that had just
about every known malady: no appetite, fin rot, cloudy bacterial
slime-coating, and were gasping at the surface of the water. Within
48 hours, most of their symptoms had cleared, they were eating
heartily, and were visibly gaining healthy body mass again.

Good luck to you.

Personally I don't really think that it's fair to dis a particular
manufacturer. For example, Maracyn is basically Erythromycin. It's not
significantly different from the Erythromycin which Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals puts in blister packs as E.M. tablets, or the
Erythromycin you get prescribed from your family doctor. These companies
don't have multi-million dollar budgets to develop new antibodies. They
use what is available on the market. After they acquire the right to
re-sell the product, they can then tweak it, by adding extra stuff. In
the case of Maracyn, they say that theirs is more water soluble,
otherwise, it's the same stuff. I can't comment on the pricing, as that
probably varies considerably by country. In Canada, iirc, they are
around 88 cents a tablet and EM is about 63 cents a tablet.

Maroxy is an oddball which they list as a 'stabilized oxygen-chlorine
compound' *whatever that means*. I've usually been using Triple Sulpha
(Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) for fungal diseases. Mardel's equivalent is
Trisufla (never tried it).

If you want to talk about difficult to verify medications, then MelaFix
and PimaFix are at the top of the list. I don't consider either of them
to be in the class of medications, (more like preventatives or very mild
medications). Melafix certainly has a role to play for various symptoms,
especially with very small fish which get blown away by antibiotics, and
where the symptoms are not too severe. PimaFix I've only used once and
it didn't yield any results. Scanning the documentation, I have a hard
time figuring out what they claim it does (indeed if they even claim
anything), and my rep was of no help either. I'll reserve my opinion on
PimaFix until I've experimented with it more. I'm happy you found an
application where it worked so well. We can always use more tools for
our fish hospitals.
--
www.NetMax.tk

This is similar to the difference between precisely-quantifiable
pharmaceutical medicine executed by clinical specialists... and the
more nebulous world of holistic medicine. Both types have their
drawbacks and advantages... Just because a medication or treatment
does not list it's precise effect in excruciatingly correct form does
not necessarily negate it's value. I'm simply stating that I've used
it for many piscine ailments and it has worked far better than most
other medications. For me and the clientele that I serve, it is
purely a matter of the final outcome of a course of medication and
which product is more likely to have the most therapeutic effect. My
dislike for Mardel medications comes from years of frustration with
distraught customers who used them and had very few positive results.

testing
"Dances With Ferrets" wrote in message
om...
This is similar to the difference between precisely-quantifiable
pharmaceutical medicine executed by clinical specialists... and the
more nebulous world of holistic medicine. Both types have their
drawbacks and advantages... Just because a medication or treatment
does not list it's precise effect in excruciatingly correct form does
not necessarily negate it's value. I'm simply stating that I've used
it for many piscine ailments and it has worked far better than most
other medications. For me and the clientele that I serve, it is
purely a matter of the final outcome of a course of medication and
which product is more likely to have the most therapeutic effect. My
dislike for Mardel medications comes from years of frustration with
distraught customers who used them and had very few positive results.


---
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