On 2007-01-24, Philip Semanchuk wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

On 2007-01-17, CD wrote:
Thanks for the advice Philip. Happy gardening!



as I posted earlier I have to disagree. The pine straw is free and
after one season you can't tell composted leaves tilled in from
composted needles.

Hi Wes,
After our bodies are done composting a meal, all food looks pretty much
the same, right? But obviously that doesn't mean we get the same amount
of nutrients out of everything we eat. Similarly, I would not rely on
visual inspection to judge the value of leaves versus needles versus
anything else as a soil amendment. Just because *we* can't tell the
difference after one season doesn't mean the plants can't.

If you could dig up a reference to the Mother Earth News article you
cite, I'd appreciate that and would like to read it. It surprises me
that the pH balances over time and maybe my intuition about the relative
nutrient value of one amendment versus another is also wrong. If the
article covers that, I'd be happy to adjust my thinking.

Cheers


Well I googled compost and soil ph and found a lot of information but
on compost in general. Peat moss seems to be the best way to make soil
more acid. There were opinions that agreed with you that pine straw is
good for Azaleas and such but little research. This is most likely
because most of us rake the pine straw and leaves together and no one
Has ever funded composting only leaves versus pinestraw.

I did find the following in TMEN on line from 1993 which may have been
what I read.

The ashes of dense hardwoods like oak and hickory are best for
sweetening soil. Apply no more than 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet per
year. If your soil is on the alkaline side, you can lower the pH by
working in sawdust, leaf mold, or peat moss. Because I used lots of
sawdust to improve my soil's humus level, I also added ashes to balance
its pH. Now that I've got plenty of compost, my soil's acidity takes
care of itself, since compost tends to neutralize pH. Despite all the
sawdust, ashes, and compost I've added, my garden's soil still isn't
perfect-but it is well on its way.


http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ...e_Dirt_on_Dirt

This article did not quote any studies. I thought TMEN had done some
studies when I read what I read, but that is alas gone.

Most sites I checked seemed to agree that adding organic matter tends to
stabilize PH for longer periods of time.

My main point was that removing the pine straw was not going to change
the soil and that the wood chips from stump grinding would be a factor
also. I also said just add more lime and fertilizer to compensate for
the composting. I did find indications that leaf compost was neutral so
adding lime to our NC soils is still necessary.

I also found that the only way to know for sure was to get a soil test
or do one with a kit.

I still think that removing pine straw is wasting good organic matter
and creating more work.

Any "new ground" with uncomposted vegetation added will probably have
short term difficulties for a year or two allows the vegetation to
compost. THe wood will take longer than the straw. Loblolly pine
needles break down faster than long leaf needles. Landscapers like the
long leaf. I got 25 cents a bale for loblolly on the pines I own from a
baler. He said he pays closer to 50 cents for long leaf. Since I have
thinned them, the straw won't be enough for baling now.

So the basic answer is no one seems to know for sure. We do know that
adding any organic matter is good in the long run. So why relocate the
straw just till it in. It ain't producing any vegetables now, and any
compost may affect the harvest for a year or two, but in the long run it
is a good way to get free organic matter that you only have to till in.

--
Wes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please.

is a garbage address.