Dave wrote:
"Scott Harper" wrote in message
erio.net...

Sorry about the double posting, just wanted to make sure the title caught
our
local arborists' attention, since this is as much a question about trees
as it
is sod...

I'm thinking about putting in some sod. I know "technically" the best way
to
do it is to get rid of all the other grass/weeds that is already there,
lightly till (or rake) up the soil, and put the sod down on that.

I know there are varying opinions on how to get rid of the existing
vegetation, but I would be inclined to spray it with round up to kill it
off
first, then rake it up. I am NOT too crazy about trying to pull it all up
while it is still alive. And tilling really isn't a great option because
of
the shallow soil depth on top of a rocky base.

The area under consideration happens to be under some live oaks. Part of
what

is growing there is literally hundreds of little oak saplings sprouting up
under and around the trees. My concern is that if I were to spray all of
them

with round up, that would make its way into the trees' root systems and
harm
them as well -- which I definitely don't want to do.

Would spraying round up under those trees harm them?

Would I have a chance in hades of the sod taking if I laid it on top of
the
existing vegetation?


scott


Takes 2 or 3 years with good rain conditions to washout the growth
controlling material that comes from cedar (juniper ashe). This is assuming
that there is no renewable cedar "leaves" or water-washed material coming
from some other location to under those trees.

If present, rake up and dig up what you can. Replace with decent topsoil or
verified suitable sandy loam 4" or deeper depth. Divert any upstream waters
that may wash such to your converted area.
Dave


What a bunch of baloney! Get with the 21st century dude.

Just one of many modern commentaries about ashe juniper, not the aging
and disproved myths that Dave is spouting.
---------------------------------------------------------

Excerpt from:
http://members.toast.net/juniper/Ashe%20juniper.html

Not a Toxic Suppressor of Other Plants

Plants that grow in part shade to full shade grow very easily beneath
mountain cedars. I have counted over 80 species of native plants that
grow beneath Ashe junipers. No research has ever isolated a plant
inhibitor excreted by mountain cedars, although a few studies, one by
Brother Daniel Lynch, showed a pure foliage extract will inhibit seed
germination of nonnative vegetable seeds.

Many say grasses don't grow under junipers, but I have seen plenty of
native grasses thriving under a discontinuous cover of mountain cedar
(where canopies perimeters are no less than 10 feet apart). Some of
these grasses are little bluestem, tall dropseed, Texas winter grass,
side oats grama, and Lindheimer's muhly. In full shade, inland sea oats
do quite well.

The lack of vegetation under a mountain cedar typically occurs under
young cedar thickets. But dig in that rocky stuff and you can only ask,
well what else would want to grow here? Once the thickets grow into
adult cedars and the trees have dumped a copious amount leaves that
eventually turn into soil, you can see the emergence of woody plants
such as live oak, red oak, cedar elm, escarpment black cherry, etc. If
the cedar is not thinned, the oaks, elms and cherries will grow up and
eventually shade out many cedars, thus converting the juniper thicket
into a mixed woodlands. David Bamberger dug under one 10-14 foot
mountain cedar and discovered an average of 9 inches of soil. In the
interspace just beyond that cedar, there was no soil: just pure limestone.