Sean Houtman wrote:
wrote in news:598df564-c5bc-4d2b-9560-
:

The theory I have on this subject is that many, perhaps a majority
of diseases from microbes, including viruses are due to a cancer
in a species for which the cancer mutated and became a
"new microbe" or a "new species of microbe".

Today we see new microbes such as bird flu and HIV. My new
theory would say that in the case of these two diseases, if traced
back far enough, it is likely or probable that a cancer of a species
was the origin of that disease of bird-flu or HIV.

Viruses tend to have very small genomes, perhaps 5-20 genes, plants and
animals have much larger genomes, on the order of hundreds of thousands
or more. Many viruses don't have DNA, they use RNA instead. RNA viruses
couldn't be descended from a DNA organism through mutation. Some viruses
have circular DNA like bacteria, some don't. It is difficult to
speculate on how viruses may have come into existence.


Well that is the counterarguement Sean, that you make. And I make the
opposite arguement, that is it possible for a cancerous cell to morph
into
a disease bearing single cell organism which then morphs into a viral
particle. It is possible and as long as there is such a pathway then
there probably are diseases which have flowed from this pathway.

Up until now, I just have not found the clear example of a organism
that
has followed this pathway.

The flagella of bacteria eventually turned into the syringe apparatus
of
some viruses. Some may argue that the viral syringe came first and
created the flagella, but I would argue that a cancerous bacteria with
flagella came first and then morphed into a syringe which eventually
some viral syringe. So it does not matter so much that viruses have
less genes.

The arguement I am making is that the cancer cell is species specific
in that it is ready to attack any member of that species should that
cancer
cell find itself able to "live off the species as a host". And that is
the main
feature of viruses and bacteria that live off of a species host. So
that implies
that the disease particle was at one time a normal cell of the species
and
through some pathway ended up as a disease particle of the species.
The
likely pathway involves a normal cell going cancerous.

So what I am saying, Sean, is that many disease particles today, both
viral and bacterial had their origins as a normal cell of a species
that went
cancerous. Now how they eventually turned from cancerous to viral
particles
is unknown to me, but there is a pathway there which needs to be
explored.



The idea of this theory or theme is that many if not most microbes
that cause diseases had their origins as a cancer of a specific
species.

So, is there an expert on apple-cedar rust, and has the genome of it
been deciphered? And has the genome of pine been diciphered?
and has the genome of apple and cedar been deciphered? Have
all four been deciphered? Thence, tell me if the Rust is more related
to the pine genome?


Rusts and other fungi aren't closely related to plants. Fungi don't have
plastids. There are also differences in the way that spindles form
during meiosis, and very large differences in how they reproduce. Most
likely the reason that the Cedar Apple rust on your cedar trees
resembles the pine cones, is that the rust is manipulating the hormones
that the cedar uses. If the hormones are produced properly, it might
cause a plant to grow a reproductive-like structure where there
shouldn't be one. Since the cedar is relatively closely related to the
pine, it can be made to grow a cone, which is the natural reproductive
structure of the cedar anyway. Add the rust organism, and the cone may
closely resemble a pine pollen cone.

Sean


Well when I started this theory in the 1990s that cancers can evolve
into
disease particles of viral or bacterial diseases, I was working on
Prion disease
which turns out to be more of a chemical contaminant disease than
anything
dealing with living particles.

What I need is a clearcut example of a species with normal cells and
with a disease
of that species for which it can be traced back that the disease
particle resembles
in high degree some normal cells that were turned cancerous and for
which the
cancer cells are in the same chemical pathway as the disease particle.

The viruses with syringes are perhaps 1/2 billion years old and so we
may never
be able to pinpoint such a pathway of a cancerous flagella cell.

But the HIV virus, allegedly traced back to monkeys in Africa, is
possible that
the monkeys had a cancerous cells from which the creation of HIV all
started from.

What I am saying is that most disease particles are species specific
and only through
time do they "jump across species", which indicates that the disease
particle had
its birth within that species. And a likely candidate would be cancer
cells.

P.S. I decided to write this book, even though I have no clearcut data
to plunge into.
What I need is a clearcut example of a disease particle that can be
traced back to
a cancer of a species cells. The general idea of this book is that
most viruses, not
all of them but most have their origins as a cancer cell of a species.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies