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THE WOODCHUCK PARTY LINE
wrote in message om... http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring.../8_10_for2.htm Go to this webpage to see photo and details. Their data indicate significant conversion of forest and woodlands over the last 30 years. That is a lot of hectares and a strong indicator of a global problem. The FIA analysis indicates a general loss of forest and woodland acerage in most regions of the US mostly due to conversion to other agricultural uses and development for housing. With respect CLEARCUT, you have no evidence beyond anecdotal and gut feeling as to whether a depletion crises exists, there is no prominent Gov org or NGO, or enviro movement which has any "proof" of a depletion crises. Everyone knows there are environmental practices that are unpalatable, but as yet YOU have not offered proof of a crises. A greenpeace spokesman's outrage at raw material extraction is understandable, but it by itself or as a part of a combined voice doesn't equal proof of a crises, only proof that unpleasant ecological practices are occuring globally as we develop globally. ^^ In my experience there is precious little aforestation - I rarely see housing developments, pastures, or vineyards revert to forest. LOL, true initially, but i'm sure you can appreciate the practice of creating established gardens and lining pavements with trees, which is the most obvious symbol of an established suburb, so greenery does increase eventually as the suburb ages{typically}. ^^If you want to set the level of resolution, variables measured, and methodology - that would be fine by me, and we will let the data speak. LOL again, buddy, if you or anyone is going to announce that we have a depletion crises as distinct from numerous unpleasant and locally unsustainable acts of environmental destruction, then YOU "must" have the criteria and the researched data at hand, you must be able to quote it to whoever enquires, otherwise you are merely exaggerating an unpleasant global occurance. Someone mentioned to me that the forests would be gone by 2050 or something, i went ahead and looked for both the criteria and data, i've yet to find it, and even a specialist forestry NG has nothing more than the usual tree hugging mantra. Do you expect me to presumably modify my lifestyle and alter my voting pattern based on a biased collective gut feeling, especially when i think the criteria and data would exist, if it WAS more than a worldwide unpleasant occurence, ie, the actual threat of depletion within x amount of years. I am not touting any hoax - I think on a global level conversion of forest and woodland is significant. On a local level - particularily in developing countries - it can be devastating. ^In much of the US high grading forest stands is seriously depleting forest resources - even if the number of forest acres appears to be relatively stable. I not suggesting you're lying, i'm suggesting you have NO PROOF that threat of depletion is on the cards, all you have is the desire to express practices which bother you, the emphasis is on YOU to produce evidence, otherwise call it what it is, "partial global ecological devastation, which eventually recovers from conservation and aforestation measures", you'll have to accept my definition until such a time as you produce proof of the threat of depletion. In the absence of any evidence, you can understand why i'll be voting as usual and consuming as usual. Laws and regulations are difficult to develop and enforce. In California, which has a amazing set of forest regulation including requirements for a Registered Professional Forester to develop Timber Harvest Plans, high grading still occurs. Landowners with little vision or education want to maximize income while leaving some trees. IT AIN'T THE FAULT OF THE OWNER. FEW OWNERS EVER WANT THEIR LAND WASTED WHICH IS STUPID FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW. THIS IS A STUPID EXCUSE OF BAD LOGGERS AND FORESTERS. For one thing, any forester doing this isn't "practicing forestry" and should lose his license or registration. Forestry edcuation is insufficient. With better education and training and with a registration board keeping an eye on these defective foresters, such bad behavior would stop. IN 30 YEARS I'VE NEVER HAD AN OWNER TELL ME HOW TO DO IT. What really happens, is that the logger or forester wants to waste the place, so they convince the owner that it SHOULD be wasted- then he can say that the owner WANTED it wasted. When done right, and the timber put out to bid, the owner will do himself a huge FINANCIAL favor- it's in his FINANCIAL interest to do it correctly, and it's the PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY of the forester to tell the owner that. In case that doesn't work, any RESPONSIBLE forester and logger should walk away from the job- and doing so is the "first principle" of the Forest Stewards Guild- see http://foreststewardsguild.org. This should be the first principle of ANY PROFESSIONAL. However, despite the fact that some foresters are assholes- that doesn't provide much of an argument against REQUIRING a forester to be on every job AND bearing the full responsibility of what happens, financially, ecologically, silviculturally, aesthetically. In Mass., regardless of who prepares the plan, the law always STUPIDLY puts the full responsibility on the owner, not the logger or forester- which allows the loggers and foresters to put the blame on the owner. Cut the big ones and leave the little onesresulting in a degraded forest stand. Still it's "legal" - the land is "forested". Ok its forested, are you a forestry expert?, that's why i came here, looking to ask the hard questions and being ready to accept the evidence, you've told me nothing i didn't already know or could have assumed. Your criticism of people wanting to maximize profit is baseless until you provide evidence which isn't just anecdotal or local, people are entitled to await a scientific study that has credibility and in plain language says, "we will run out of forests by year 2050, and here's our scientific proof", where is that evidence beyond your assertion or anyone's assertion? The solution is excellent forest management on public and private forest land. How do we achieve this? Damned if I know. Right now education of landowners, both of private forest lands and public lands is one Here we go again, another infamous excuse used all over the nation by rapacious loggers and foresters and most forestry organizations - EDUCATE THE OWNER. If you need surgery, do you sit down and read big books on surgery to get educated, while having the OPTION to hire a surgeon, and in case you don't want to, you can hire the auto mechanic next door to pull your tonsils???? Of course not. If you need a survey (in Mass.) you have to hire a LICENSED SURVEYOR. So, the first issue is to get a forester on every log job, and MAKE HIM FULLY RESPONSIBLE. Getting a forester on EVERY log job will in itself result in an order of magnitute better work, while recognizing that many are incompetent and/or corrupt. Over time, the profession of forestry must get better with better education and training. STOP BLAIMIING OWNERS AND CLAIMING THAT OWNER EDUCATION IS THE SOLUTION. THAT'S NUTS- but it's the official forestry/logging party line and has been so for generations and IT'S FAILED, FAILED, FAILED, FAILED, FAILED. option. Most landowners that I talk with, when educated about good forest management, will seek out more information and manage their lands responsibly. And ideally the truth should be included in any eductaional package, and my education from here and google searches informs me that collated hard evidence doesn't exist. I'm going to buy the car and burn rubber, unless you can pull a rabit out of a hat, i'll see you at the dragstrip,lol. Any other suggestions? Sure, a high octane Boss XR8. |
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