"ant" wrote in message
...
Farm1 wrote:
And the trouble with most of the indigenous Monaro species is that
they are stunted ghastly bloody things to begin with. No wonder
there
are so many Pinus radiata everywhere. At elast they grow in the
bad
conditions and provide some shelter for stock and humans.

Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef
up the
windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow here.

Pines and gums grown together right form the start can do very well as
wind breaks. They sem to grow at about the same pace if started
together.

I've tried
some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on alpine mountain tops
apparently, and are endangered (euc. Baeuerlenii). Well I know why
they're
endangered, they're hopeless.

:-)) Yup! I prefer the permaculture approach to the purist
approach - whatever works in hard and hungry conditons.

A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle
apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera
are OK
too.

Have you tried E. viminalis (spelling???) and E. McArthuri (or should
that be Macarthuri)? Both of those SHOULD do well. Don't bother with
E. Nicholi (spell?) though.

In article , "ant"
wrote:

Farm1 wrote:
And the trouble with most of the indigenous Monaro species is that
they are stunted ghastly bloody things to begin with. No wonder there
are so many Pinus radiata everywhere. At elast they grow in the bad
conditions and provide some shelter for stock and humans.

Thought the Monaro was supposed to be practically treeless?

Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef up the
windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow here. I've tried
some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on alpine mountain tops
apparently, and are endangered (euc. Baeuerlenii). Well I know why they're
endangered, they're hopeless. A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle

Well -- are you living on an alpine mountain top?! They don't sound
indigenous to me, just native.

apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera are OK
too.

How about other species around the Leylandii/gums/whatever? Usually a row of
trees alone isn't much of a windbreak. You want a wave shape -- low plants on
the windward side, graduating to tall trees -- to push the wind over your
house.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Farm1 wrote:
"ant" wrote in message

Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef
up the windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow here.

Pines and gums grown together right form the start can do very well as
wind breaks. They sem to grow at about the same pace if started
together.

I suspect the pines act as "nursery" trees for the gums. Pines are rather
hard to find right now, maybe the tree police have dictated that we can't
grow them. I have a large number of Stone Pines doing rather well, they have
taken a long time to grow, and are still small, but they look awesome, and
one day I'll have Pine Nuts!


I've tried
some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on alpine mountain tops
apparently, and are endangered (euc. Baeuerlenii). Well I know why
they're endangered, they're hopeless.

:-)) Yup! I prefer the permaculture approach to the purist
approach - whatever works in hard and hungry conditons.

Exactly. If they grow, they're in. If they don't, they can rack off! The
oaks do well here, ditto the Chinese Elms, so they're in. Maples, plane
trees, even silver birches, they've had their chance and they are not
pulling their weight.


A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle
apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera
are OK too.

Have you tried E. viminalis (spelling???) and E. McArthuri (or should
that be Macarthuri)? Both of those SHOULD do well. Don't bother with
E. Nicholi (spell?) though.

I remember seeing that Viminalis was named as a local useful gum.
MacArthurii I germinatd a bunch of at the same time as the Mannifera, but
I'm seeing more of the Mannifera around the place, not so many MacArthurii.
They grow here, I guess, but don't love it.
I think I might have tried some Nicholii but haven't noticed them a few
years on, so I guess they quietly carked it too.
I really hate Argyle Apples, but these things are shooting up like you
wouldn't believe. The Canberra government nursery has a really sensible
range of trees and always have some cheapies down the back, and since trying
to grow trees here, I've got respect for whoever chooses their varieties and
categorises them (for position and conditions).

No radiatas though.

--
ant

Chookie wrote:
In article , "ant"
wrote:

Farm1 wrote:
And the trouble with most of the indigenous Monaro species is that
they are stunted ghastly bloody things to begin with. No wonder
there are so many Pinus radiata everywhere. At elast they grow in
the bad conditions and provide some shelter for stock and humans.

Thought the Monaro was supposed to be practically treeless?

Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef
up the windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow
here. I've tried some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on
alpine mountain tops apparently, and are endangered (euc.
Baeuerlenii). Well I know why they're endangered, they're hopeless.
A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle

Well -- are you living on an alpine mountain top?!

Yes.

They don't sound indigenous to me, just native.

From the label (of one of the many that died).
10m by 8m (har). White flowers feb-march. a small endangered gum. grows on
mountain tops and escarpments in shallow stony soils. very cold tolerant
species.


apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera
are OK too.

How about other species around the Leylandii/gums/whatever? Usually
a row of trees alone isn't much of a windbreak. You want a wave
shape -- low plants on the windward side, graduating to tall trees --
to push the wind over your house.

why do you think the cypress are in a line? I have about half an acre
planted up with them, with various wattles in amoungst them (blackwood,
rubida, silver etc). There's a bunch of birch on the northwest side, with
some casuarinas and a struggling liquidamber, and 10 birches in a copse
between the cypress and the house. An ornamental tree has just gone in by
itself, and when it dies, I'll put in a chinese elm.

I want to but the pines in on the western side, where the wind comes from,
to help the cypress a bit.

We have planted about 300 trees here. And there's room for a lot more.



--
ant

In article , "ant"
wrote:

I suspect the pines act as "nursery" trees for the gums. Pines are rather
hard to find right now, maybe the tree police have dictated that we can't
grow them. I have a large number of Stone Pines doing rather well, they have
taken a long time to grow, and are still small, but they look awesome, and
one day I'll have Pine Nuts!

I hate o tell you this, but there is a lovely park in Ramsgate (on Botany Bay)
full of Stone Pines. They are all harvested by cockatoos... so don't count on
a crop!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Chookie wrote:
In article , "ant"
wrote:

I suspect the pines act as "nursery" trees for the gums. Pines are
rather hard to find right now, maybe the tree police have dictated
that we can't grow them. I have a large number of Stone Pines doing
rather well, they have taken a long time to grow, and are still
small, but they look awesome, and one day I'll have Pine Nuts!

I hate o tell you this, but there is a lovely park in Ramsgate (on
Botany Bay) full of Stone Pines. They are all harvested by
cockatoos... so don't count on a crop!

Dang, I never noticed the stone pines there. I quite like Ramsgate, there's
a restaurant right on the beach that I rather like. And you can watch the
aeroplanes.

I thought the birds might get them. Might have to put netting (or chain
mail) over a few of them when the seeds finally start. Very good looking
trees.


--
ant

In article , "ant"
wrote:

Well -- are you living on an alpine mountain top?!

Yes.

OK -- thought you were closer to Canberra than that.

They don't sound indigenous to me, just native.

From the label (of one of the many that died).
10m by 8m (har). White flowers feb-march. a small endangered gum. grows on
mountain tops and escarpments in shallow stony soils. very cold tolerant
species.

Could be from Tasmania, for all we know. Any chance of collecting seed from
trees on/near your property? Does your Council offer free trees?

How about other species around the Leylandii/gums/whatever? Usually
a row of trees alone isn't much of a windbreak. You want a wave
shape -- low plants on the windward side, graduating to tall trees --
to push the wind over your house.

why do you think the cypress are in a line?

Well, that is what people seem to do with them... glad you have more sense.

It occurs to me that if your land is this difficult, you might need to do the
permaculture "pioneer species" thingy. Start with lower-growing heathland
shrubs, which are usually quite wind-tolerant, and plant up with taller
species over time.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Chookie wrote:
In article , "ant"
wrote:

Well -- are you living on an alpine mountain top?!

Yes.

OK -- thought you were closer to Canberra than that.

We are. I'm on the range which features the Tinderries. Semi-alpine. ACT
alpine wind warnings mean for me, batten down the hatches.


Could be from Tasmania, for all we know. Any chance of collecting
seed from trees on/near your property? Does your Council offer free
trees?

they might be tasmanian, yes, The ACT gov't nursery sells a lot of them, so
I'm assuming they are also Brindabella/Tinbinbilla/Tinderry trees. They are
quite pretty, and I'm nursing the ones that are left. I might buy some more
and put them in the garden part too.

We did collect seed from the local gums, and germinated them. they are
growing OK but succumb to the sticky scale brought by the ants. The
mannifera and macarthurii seem more resistant.

It occurs to me that if your land is this difficult, you might need
to do the permaculture "pioneer species" thingy. Start with
lower-growing heathland shrubs, which are usually quite
wind-tolerant, and plant up with taller species over time.

We germinated a lot of wattles, to try and use their quick-growing as
creating a better environment. Which kind-of worked, but the place is so
big, it's hard to do anything on the scale required. Something's eating
the little casuarinas, so I'm going to give up on them for a while which is
a shame, as they are native to this area and there's some massive ones
falling apart.

I encourage the birds in the hopes that htey'll stay and eat the insects.

--
ant