i wrote...
 

.... a really immoderate rant about water restrictions (and/or lack thereof).

and especially about the nsw govt, and how cross it makes me that the garden
hose police get around busting people for watering their gardens on the
wrong day, but the authorities seem not to care(?!) how much
drinking-quality water people flush down their dunnies and showers and
generally waste _inside_ the home where they'll never be caught, and where
govts seem unwilling to encourage change in people's ludicrous, wasteful
behaviour.

inside the home, many people on town water are heedless, greedy ninnies, but
that's ok. it's quite all right to flush 20 litres down the drain because
you did a wee, but god forbid you give the veggies or the flowers a bit of a
squirt with the hose. it's quite all right to have a bazillion-litre shower
when you're not even dirty, but god forfend you water a tree so it doesn't
die.

being on my own water supply, i'm probably well out of it. if i were in town
now, getting crosser & crosser about the whole thing, i'd probably be
shouting "i heard that!!!" at the neighbours every time they flush the loo.
g

where are the community service announcements? where is the thinking and
discussion on a better way to harvest and allocate and charge for water, so
that people can use it how they think best, but knowing they only have their
little allocation and at its true cost, so they better think carefully?
there are simply no immediate _consequences_ for wasting water (that people
can see) - it's just an endless, clean, cheap, lovely supply that will never
run out. if it ever does run out, the consequences would be horrendous - but
the "waste not, want not" philosophy is clearly not foremost in enough
people's minds. all that is happening is people's lovely, health-giving
gardens are dying, & the nsw govt has its head up its arse, and the liberals
are even more useless (so that's no use).

.... but anyway, i deleted it & posted this much more civilised rant instead.
sorry to bring this subject up again, but really - this is a problem that's
not going to go away. people need information & leadership & greywater
systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong. but all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to scream.
:-)
kylie

i wrote...
 

that's about it kylie,

been my argument for a long time also, there is no community
re-education on being water-wise being done.

even flushing the toilet at all is in this day and age sheer waste of
a limited resource needed for drinking and food production, there is
absolutely no sense of sustainability in our communities and ther
won't be until the time they turn a tap on and only dust emmits.

and the same with power until they turn a switch and nothing happens
it is all easy come easy go, you can't eat or drink money the sheer
waste of power over this festive season for the absolute folly of the
better than the joneses excercise of christmas light pagents in
private gardens all for the glory of a tin pot award and to get ones'
name mentioned in the media.

oh don't forget the sheer exhobitance of public type toilets running
uncontrolled whilst us home vege' gardeners have to desist from using
water.

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 13:50:47 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

i wrote...
 

"gardenlen" wrote in message
...
that's about it kylie,

been my argument for a long time also, there is no community
re-education on being water-wise being done.

even flushing the toilet at all is in this day and age sheer waste of
a limited resource needed for drinking and food production, there is
absolutely no sense of sustainability in our communities and ther
won't be until the time they turn a tap on and only dust emmits.

and the same with power until they turn a switch and nothing happens
it is all easy come easy go, you can't eat or drink money the sheer
waste of power over this festive season for the absolute folly of the
better than the joneses excercise of christmas light pagents in
private gardens all for the glory of a tin pot award and to get ones'
name mentioned in the media.

oh don't forget the sheer exhobitance of public type toilets running
uncontrolled whilst us home vege' gardeners have to desist from using
water.

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 13:50:47 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

I'm with you both on this one. Our whole attitude for so long has been 'Just
use, don't think'. This goes for pretty much everything. And people who
rebel and try to do something about it get laughed at for being tree hugging
hippies, and given names like 'ferals'. One day they'll be the only ones
laughing, as they'll be the only ones with their own power from solar
panels, water from tanks and greaywater, and cheap food from sustainable
gardens. I hate having to live the way we do now; renting, house in town,
town water, blah blah blah. One day...we're looking at houses with a bit of
land now. Can't wait....but I am *not* having goats.
We're lucky in Cairns to have plenty of water, but we still have water
restrictions in the garden. Our council seems to be using it's brain in some
things at least, be stupid not too really, considering stuff happening down
south. Now if they'd just get better public transport....

i wrote...
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
... a really immoderate rant about water restrictions (and/or lack
thereof).

and especially about the nsw govt, and how cross it makes me that
the garden
hose police get around busting people for watering their gardens on
the
wrong day, but the authorities seem not to care(?!) how much
drinking-quality water people flush down their dunnies and showers
and
generally waste _inside_ the home where they'll never be caught, and
where
govts seem unwilling to encourage change in people's ludicrous,
wasteful
behaviour.

:-)) Having just spend Xmas in Sydney, the same thing applies to more
than just water.

I cannot believe the rampant and unbelievably unecessary consumption
there - for example, 1 family of 2 drivers with 2 large 4x4s in
Coogee!!!!! - not a bloody dirt road withing cooeee!!! and $9,000
spent for glass pool fencing for a minute distance to replace lace
pool fencing that had nothing wrong with it (and then there was the
cost of the garden 'landscaping' that had to go in round the pool
fencing and all it was was about 3 varieties of very common old plants
and some mulch and all that cost several arms and legs too!).

We both noticed the foubies as we drove up but the amount spent on the
fence was found out AFTER my husband and the man of this household
agreed about how appalling household air conditioning was. The Coogee
husband agreed but that does stop him having the ridiculous fourbies
and putting in lovely looking but totally unnecesary glass pool
fencing. What blood resources does he think it takes to make both
these rampant bits of consumerism?

Then we went to the next place and the pool (which hasn't been used by
either of the residents for at least 4 years) has concrete cancer so
30,000 litres of water is to be dumped in the drain before $14,000 is
spent fixing the concrete cancer!

These people have more money then brains or sense of social
responsibility.

inside the home, many people on town water are heedless, greedy
ninnies, but
that's ok. it's quite all right to flush 20 litres down the drain
because
you did a wee,

Yep, If it's brown, flush it down, if it's yellow, let it mellow.

but god forbid you give the veggies or the flowers a bit of a
squirt with the hose. it's quite all right to have a bazillion-litre
shower
when you're not even dirty, but god forfend you water a tree so it
doesn't
die.

being on my own water supply, i'm probably well out of it. if i were
in town
now, getting crosser & crosser about the whole thing, i'd probably
be
shouting "i heard that!!!" at the neighbours every time they flush
the loo.
g

Agree totally, but it's much more than just water - it's all the other
throw out, use it up mentality of city people too.

where are the community service announcements? where is the thinking
and
discussion on a better way to harvest and allocate and charge for
water, so
that people can use it how they think best, but knowing they only
have their
little allocation and at its true cost, so they better think
carefully?
there are simply no immediate _consequences_ for wasting water (that
people
can see) - it's just an endless, clean, cheap, lovely supply that
will never
run out. if it ever does run out, the consequences would be
horrendous - but
the "waste not, want not" philosophy is clearly not foremost in
enough
people's minds. all that is happening is people's lovely,
health-giving
gardens are dying, & the nsw govt has its head up its arse, and the
liberals
are even more useless (so that's no use).

... but anyway, i deleted it & posted this much more civilised rant
instead.
sorry to bring this subject up again, but really - this is a problem
that's
not going to go away. people need information & leadership &
greywater
systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong. but
all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to scream.
:-)

Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or computers or
TVs.............. You can see how I am about glass pool fencing and
fourbies in the Eastern suburbs...............

i wrote...
 

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:22:13 +1100, "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:
snip snip

systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong. but
all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to scream.
:-)

Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or computers or

^^^^^^^^^
And you wrote this newsgroup post on ?? a note that you gave to abird
to deliver into the ether ??

TVs.............. You can see how I am about glass pool fencing and
fourbies in the Eastern suburbs...............

i wrote...
 

In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:

... a really immoderate rant about water restrictions (and/or lack thereof).

and especially about the nsw govt, and how cross it makes me that the garden
hose police get around busting people for watering their gardens on the
wrong day, but the authorities seem not to care(?!) how much
drinking-quality water people flush down their dunnies and showers and
generally waste _inside_ the home where they'll never be caught, and where
govts seem unwilling to encourage change in people's ludicrous, wasteful
behaviour.

You aren't alone, from the tenor of letters to the Herald on the subject. I
haven't yet seen anyone who thinks that the desalination plant is a good idea,
let alone tapping Sydney's underground water.

where are the community service announcements? where is the thinking and
discussion on a better way to harvest and allocate and charge for water, so
that people can use it how they think best, but knowing they only have their
little allocation and at its true cost, so they better think carefully?
there are simply no immediate _consequences_ for wasting water (that people
can see) - it's just an endless, clean, cheap, lovely supply that will never
run out.

I would like to see industrial water usage being looked at. There is a heck
of a lot of water wasted in industry, I suspect.

What I'd like to see is an allocation of water to households at a moderate
price, based on the number of people who live there. Once you go over
allocation, you get hit with an excess usage charge. That would allow
families with 8 children to still bathe regularly.

if it ever does run out, the consequences would be horrendous - but
the "waste not, want not" philosophy is clearly not foremost in enough
people's minds. all that is happening is people's lovely, health-giving
gardens are dying, & the nsw govt has its head up its arse, and the liberals
are even more useless (so that's no use).

Peter "Of course I'm sane" Debnam! Biggest vote winner Morris has!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

i wrote...
 

In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

I cannot believe the rampant and unbelievably unecessary consumption
there - for example, 1 family of 2 drivers with 2 large 4x4s in
Coogee!!!!! - not a bloody dirt road withing cooeee!!! and $9,000

Hah. The real problem is that I have to share the road with idiots like them.

spent for glass pool fencing for a minute distance to replace lace
pool fencing that had nothing wrong with it (and then there was the
cost of the garden 'landscaping' that had to go in round the pool
fencing and all it was was about 3 varieties of very common old plants
and some mulch and all that cost several arms and legs too!).

It's important to have a pool in Coogee; it's such a long way from the beach
:-/

but god forbid you give the veggies or the flowers a bit of a
squirt with the hose. it's quite all right to have a bazillion-litre
shower when you're not even dirty, but god forfend you water a tree so it
doesn't die.

Well, to be truthful, you need a heck of a lot of water to substitute for a
shower of rain. Squirts with the hose are pretty useless -- you need to water
for a couple of hours to do any good.

Agree totally, but it's much more than just water - it's all the other
throw out, use it up mentality of city people too.

Not quite all of us! There are a few people outside the cities who behave
like that too. It's the population density that decreases, not the idiot
density. Though I suspect that there *are* a lot of idiots living in those
TUscanised mansions in teh Hills District...

Have just been reading "Lawns into Lunch" today, which is a set of case
studies of urban permaculture. These urban greenies have usually found their
neighbours to be supportive (particularly after the fresh eggs and tomatoes
change hands...).

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

i wrote...
 

wrote in message
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:22:13 +1100, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:
snip snip

systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong.
but
all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to
scream.
:-)

Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or computers
or

^^^^^^^^^
And you wrote this newsgroup post on ?? a note that you gave to
abird
to deliver into the ether ??

Didn't you notice the word "new"? This computer is so old it's just
about steam driven. I made the comment at a lunch recently about
saving something to my floppy and everyone fell about laughing. I
didn't even know that floppys had been superceded. They still work
for me, but it's just about time this poor old thing went to the
museum.

i wrote...
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
You aren't alone, from the tenor of letters to the Herald on the subject.
I
haven't yet seen anyone who thinks that the desalination plant is a good
idea,
let alone tapping Sydney's underground water.

i forgot to say (in my less-immoderate rant - in the full-blown version it
was there ;-) that what set me off was yesterday's smh article saying the
nsw govt has decided sydney peeps "would not accept" recycled water - hence
it's desalinators full steam ahead, no discussion. ARGH.

I would like to see industrial water usage being looked at. There is a
heck
of a lot of water wasted in industry, I suspect.

What I'd like to see is an allocation of water to households at a moderate
price, based on the number of people who live there. Once you go over
allocation, you get hit with an excess usage charge. That would allow
families with 8 children to still bathe regularly.

EXACTLY. and if everyone got an allocation, it would be up to them what to
do with it & make sure it lasts else pay the price (literally). if they want
a huge green lawn & no showers at all, all power to them, i say! but for teh
govt to act like little hitlers about watering and car washing while doing
absolutely NOTHING about other water use is just moronic, insulting and
rather cross-making. i know that veggie-types are getting increasingly up in
arms because they don't get extra water to grow their food with, yet growing
one's own food is clearly an extreme benefit to everyone.

are even more useless (so that's no use).

Peter "Of course I'm sane" Debnam! Biggest vote winner Morris has!

with peter howling at the moon, morris does not even have to TRY to get his
head out of his arse. i have no intention of voting for either of them,
quite frankly!! (it's just a question of which one to put stone motherless
last).
kylie

i wrote...
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
...

but god forbid you give the veggies or the flowers a bit of a
squirt with the hose. it's quite all right to have a bazillion-litre
shower when you're not even dirty, but god forfend you water a tree so
it
doesn't die.

Well, to be truthful, you need a heck of a lot of water to substitute for
a
shower of rain. Squirts with the hose are pretty useless -- you need to
water for a couple of hours to do any good.

well, clearly i was exaggerating in both directions :-) (most people don't
have a bazillion-litre shower either. except perhaps in coogee & the hills
district ;-)
kylie

i wrote...
 

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
the same thing applies to more
than just water.

I cannot believe the rampant and unbelievably unecessary consumption
there -

in truth, rampant consumption of all kinds is my bugbear. i was set off by a
water article, but it's all the same thing really, isn't it? people feeling
entitled to just use and use and use, regardless of teh consequences. in a
gardening group though, i'd at least start off with water & go from there
g
kylie

i wrote...
 

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:29:25 +1100, "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:

wrote in message
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:22:13 +1100, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:
snip snip

systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong.
but
all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to
scream.
:-)

Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or computers
or

^^^^^^^^^
And you wrote this newsgroup post on ?? a note that you gave to
abird
to deliver into the ether ??

Didn't you notice the word "new"? This computer is so old it's just

Now I just "New" you would pick me up on that...... As a matter of
fact I actually did see the word written there, but it must have been
"New" at some stage of it's life....

about steam driven. I made the comment at a lunch recently about
saving something to my floppy and everyone fell about laughing. I
didn't even know that floppys had been superceded. They still work
for me, but it's just about time this poor old thing went to the
museum.

i wrote...
 

wrote in message
...

Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or computers
or

^^^^^^^^^
And you wrote this newsgroup post on ?? a note that you gave to
abird
to deliver into the ether ??

Didn't you notice the word "new"? This computer is so old it's just

Now I just "New" you would pick me up on that...... As a matter of
fact I actually did see the word written there, but it must have been
"New" at some stage of it's life....

clearly you are just trying to be annoying, but the clear implication in
what farm said ("they _think_ they need new..." [my emphasis] ) is that they
don't NEED a new whatever at all. the old is perfectly good. they THINK they
"need" a new one when they merely _want_ a new one because they are dull,
unimaginative, or wasteful.

believe it or not, "new" is a word with multiple shades of meaning. consult
your dictionary, not your harvey norman catalogue g
kylie

i wrote...
 

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:58:04 GMT, gardenlen wrote:

oh don't forget the sheer exhobitance of public type toilets running
uncontrolled whilst us home vege' gardeners have to desist from using
water.

Don't take this as a product push - not affiliated, yada yada - but I
encountered this stuff in a urinal in Dungog. It does away with the need
to flush urine away, by using microbes to eat the nutrients that make it
smelly. I'd never been to such an odourless public loo before, nor
since.

http://www.desert.com.au/

Bloody marvellous, those little microbes!
--
Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia
The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us

i wrote...
 

wrote in message
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:29:25 +1100, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:
wrote in message
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:22:13 +1100, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:
snip snip

systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong.
but
all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to
scream.
:-)

Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started
on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or
computers
or

^^^^^^^^^
And you wrote this newsgroup post on ?? a note that you gave to
abird
to deliver into the ether ??

Didn't you notice the word "new"? This computer is so old it's
just

Now I just "New" you would pick me up on that......

:-)) In that case, and given that the thread is about rampant
consumption, I'm surprised that you didn't say something different or
perhaps just differently provocative.

As a matter of
fact I actually did see the word written there, but it must have
been
"New" at some stage of it's life....

I can't think of anything that wasn't "new" at one stage. I think
this thread is about getting the longest life one can out of
everything and that includes jars or hoses or water or even computers.
These days even in the country, it's hard to live without a computer
but I keep reminding anyone who laughs at this old beast that I have
more computing power in front of me that was used in order to send man
to the moon. I still find that fact to be totally astounding.

i wrote...
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message

well, clearly i was exaggerating in both directions :-) (most people
don't
have a bazillion-litre shower either. except perhaps in coogee & the
hills
district ;-)

You'll enjoy this story (not). Our little local village has recently
become popular with tree changers who come here for what they call the
"lifestyle". Most of us long term residents wonder what "lifestyle"
they're referring to since most of them have moved into a new
development full of McMansions where they could spit out their kitchen
windows into the house next door.

My friend was in the post office one day when a new resident (who has
bought on larger acreage) was complaining that she was having to buy a
tankful of house water (5,000 litres) every 10 days. My friend asked
her what one earth she was doing with the water. Her response was
that she had 3 teenage children and they didn't understand the need
for short showers. My friend has 2 teenage boys of her own so was not
impressed since they don't need to be told, but then they were born to
it. We're still wondering how it is possible for a family of 5 can go
through so much water in such a short time.

i wrote...
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Chookie" wrote in message

You aren't alone, from the tenor of letters to the Herald on the
subject.
I
haven't yet seen anyone who thinks that the desalination plant is
a good
idea,
let alone tapping Sydney's underground water.

i forgot to say (in my less-immoderate rant - in the full-blown
version it
was there ;-) that what set me off was yesterday's smh article
saying the
nsw govt has decided sydney peeps "would not accept" recycled
water - hence
it's desalinators full steam ahead, no discussion. ARGH.

And yet they let all that shorm water jsut run out to sea. And all of
NSW will be paying for these stupid desaliantors not just the water
hungry Syndeysiders.

i wrote...
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:29:25 +1100, "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:

wrote in message
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:22:13 +1100, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:
snip snip

systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong.
but
all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to
scream.
:-)

Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or computers
or

^^^^^^^^^
And you wrote this newsgroup post on ?? a note that you gave to
abird
to deliver into the ether ??

Didn't you notice the word "new"? This computer is so old it's just

Now I just "New" you would pick me up on that...... As a matter of
fact I actually did see the word written there, but it must have been
"New" at some stage of it's life....

about steam driven. I made the comment at a lunch recently about
saving something to my floppy and everyone fell about laughing. I
didn't even know that floppys had been superceded. They still work
for me, but it's just about time this poor old thing went to the
museum.



My God, it's not the buying new stuff she's expressing concern about,
obviously she's using her brain for thinking, it's the buying unnecessary
new stuff to 'keep up with the Joneses.' And if you're into buying
unnecessary new stuff to keep up with the Joneses, go for it. But we reserve
our right to be unimpressed.

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

My friend was in the post office one day when a new resident (who has
bought on larger acreage) was complaining that she was having to buy a
tankful of house water (5,000 litres) every 10 days. My friend asked
her what one earth she was doing with the water. Her response was
that she had 3 teenage children and they didn't understand the need
for short showers.

That's nothing to do with citified people -- that's the result of Baby Boomer
grandparents.

I've noticed a huge gulf in parenting styles in Generation X, and it divides
very neatly on when the Gen-Xers' parents were born. Gen-Xers whose parents
were Battler Generation (born before WWII) have a rather no-nonsense approach,
allow their children to fail, have boundaries, like 'natural consequences'
etc. That would be people like me and my DH. Interestingly, a rather large
proportion of our friends were raised by Battlers too, so I think there must
be a common mindset that we all share. We don't parent identically by any
means, but there are a few common themes.

Gen-Xers with Boomer parents, OTOH, have been indulged, so they have no idea
what to do with their children except cater to their every whim and -- very
importantly -- protect them from disappointment and other negative emotions
(that's their concept of 'emotional support'). I suppose that is true of the
tail-end Boomers who are still parenting atm too. In fact, I would be
interested to see if Gen-Xers with Boomer parents are more likely to own 4WDs
in the city than Gen-Xers with Battler parents. Ditto for the wasteful
eaveless Tuscanised mansions, "home theatre systems" and all the other markers
of conspicuous consumption. I am already guessing that Gen-Xers with Boomer
parents are the ones threatening soccer coaches all over Australia and
indulging in road rage.

The difference between the two groups is the amount of emphasis placed on Self
vs Community. The Boomers left all the institutions -- churches, political
parties, community groups of all kinds -- because of their strong desire for
individualism. Unfortunately that leaves you paying attention to nothing but
Self in the end.

I have cross-posted because I think aus.family might have something to add.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

i wrote...
 

meeee wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:29:25 +1100, "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:

wrote in message
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:22:13 +1100, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:
snip snip
systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong.
but
all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to
scream.
:-)
Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or computers
or
^^^^^^^^^
And you wrote this newsgroup post on ?? a note that you gave to
abird
to deliver into the ether ??
Didn't you notice the word "new"? This computer is so old it's just
Now I just "New" you would pick me up on that...... As a matter of
fact I actually did see the word written there, but it must have been
"New" at some stage of it's life....

about steam driven. I made the comment at a lunch recently about
saving something to my floppy and everyone fell about laughing. I
didn't even know that floppys had been superceded. They still work
for me, but it's just about time this poor old thing went to the
museum.


My God, it's not the buying new stuff she's expressing concern about,
obviously she's using her brain for thinking, it's the buying unnecessary
new stuff to 'keep up with the Joneses.' And if you're into buying
unnecessary new stuff to keep up with the Joneses, go for it. But we reserve
our right to be unimpressed.


I'm concerned about sexual references by you. "Floppy" indeed Exactly
how old are you?

i wrote...
 

"Jonno" wrote in message
...
meeee wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:29:25 +1100, "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:

wrote in message
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:22:13 +1100, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow
wrote:
snip snip
systems & tanks & the knowledge of where they are going wrong.
but
all they
get is the ****ing garden hose police. it makes me want to
scream.
:-)
Yep, but I'd add lots more to that rant. Don't get me started on
people who think they need new ktichens or bathrooms or computers
or
^^^^^^^^^
And you wrote this newsgroup post on ?? a note that you gave to
abird
to deliver into the ether ??
Didn't you notice the word "new"? This computer is so old it's just
Now I just "New" you would pick me up on that...... As a matter of
fact I actually did see the word written there, but it must have been
"New" at some stage of it's life....

about steam driven. I made the comment at a lunch recently about
saving something to my floppy and everyone fell about laughing. I
didn't even know that floppys had been superceded. They still work
for me, but it's just about time this poor old thing went to the
museum.


My God, it's not the buying new stuff she's expressing concern about,
obviously she's using her brain for thinking, it's the buying unnecessary
new stuff to 'keep up with the Joneses.' And if you're into buying
unnecessary new stuff to keep up with the Joneses, go for it. But we
reserve our right to be unimpressed.
I'm concerned about sexual references by you. "Floppy" indeed Exactly how
old are you?


LMAO....

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

My friend was in the post office one day when a new resident (who has
bought on larger acreage) was complaining that she was having to buy a
tankful of house water (5,000 litres) every 10 days. My friend asked
her what one earth she was doing with the water. Her response was
that she had 3 teenage children and they didn't understand the need
for short showers.

That's nothing to do with citified people -- that's the result of Baby
Boomer
grandparents.

I've noticed a huge gulf in parenting styles in Generation X, and it
divides
very neatly on when the Gen-Xers' parents were born. Gen-Xers whose
parents
were Battler Generation (born before WWII) have a rather no-nonsense
approach,
allow their children to fail, have boundaries, like 'natural consequences'
etc. That would be people like me and my DH. Interestingly, a rather
large
proportion of our friends were raised by Battlers too, so I think there
must
be a common mindset that we all share. We don't parent identically by any
means, but there are a few common themes.

Gen-Xers with Boomer parents, OTOH, have been indulged, so they have no
idea
what to do with their children except cater to their every whim and --
very
importantly -- protect them from disappointment and other negative
emotions (that's their concept of 'emotional support'). I suppose that
is true of the
tail-end Boomers who are still parenting atm too. In fact, I would be
interested to see if Gen-Xers with Boomer parents are more likely to own
4WDs
in the city than Gen-Xers with Battler parents. Ditto for the wasteful
eaveless Tuscanised mansions, "home theatre systems" and all the other
markers
of conspicuous consumption. I am already guessing that Gen-Xers with
Boomer
parents are the ones threatening soccer coaches all over Australia and
indulging in road rage.

The difference between the two groups is the amount of emphasis placed on
Self
vs Community. The Boomers left all the institutions -- churches,
political
parties, community groups of all kinds -- because of their strong desire
for
individualism. Unfortunately that leaves you paying attention to nothing
but
Self in the end.

I have cross-posted because I think aus.family might have something to
add.

it's an interesting theory - the only problem i can find with it is that i
think it doesn't pan out in reality :-) i'd have to think about that more to
be sure where i stand on it, but as a 36y.o. child of baby boomers (dh is 38
& also the child of boomers), it certainly doesn't work in our house, &
thinking of people i know, it doesn't seem to work there either.

don't get me wrong - i'm as happy to bag out baby boomers as the next person
g. but it's unkind to think that all boomers are the same when they're
clearly not and when you do statistical breakdowns on parenting styles of
the boomers it won't work out either, i don't think.

my parents were always broke when we were growing up - do you think that
might be the real key? privilege vs lack thereof?

having said that, my own parents (now divorced) are both well-off (now), but
my dad's a mad spendthrift & my mum's as tight as a fish's bum (it was ever
thus). it's personality difference. they're almost the same age. it's not a
"boomer" thing or a generational thing when they're simply so different as
people.

am i taking your generalisation too literally?
kylie --- the idea i was "indulged" is frankly laughable :-)

i wrote...
 

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...

And yet they let all that shorm water jsut run out to sea.

shh! the execrable liberals want to harvest storm water. (doink! aren't they
geniuses?!)

And all of
NSW will be paying for these stupid desaliantors not just the water
hungry Syndeysiders.

i know you've got an avowed set against city-folk g, but sydneysiders
subsidise a lot of country stuff. it all works out in the end.
(paying for it's not MY big problem with the whole stupid idea!!)
kylie

i wrote...
 

0tterbot wrote:
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...

And yet they let all that shorm water jsut run out to sea.

shh! the execrable liberals want to harvest storm water. (doink! aren't they
geniuses?!)

And all of
NSW will be paying for these stupid desaliantors not just the water
hungry Syndeysiders.

i know you've got an avowed set against city-folk g, but sydneysiders
subsidise a lot of country stuff. it all works out in the end.
(paying for it's not MY big problem with the whole stupid idea!!)
kylie


Wish they wouldn't take all the credit and take some of Victoria's
resources to pay for it as well though.

Im just concerned that if storm water doesn't run out to sea the sharks
will go further upriver due to more salinity. That will cause some nasty
surprises. Sharks swim upriver underturd.

i wrote...
 

"Jonno" wrote in message
...
0tterbot wrote:
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...

And yet they let all that shorm water jsut run out to sea.

shh! the execrable liberals want to harvest storm water. (doink! aren't
they geniuses?!)

And all of
NSW will be paying for these stupid desaliantors not just the water
hungry Syndeysiders.

i know you've got an avowed set against city-folk g, but sydneysiders
subsidise a lot of country stuff. it all works out in the end.
(paying for it's not MY big problem with the whole stupid idea!!)
kylie
Wish they wouldn't take all the credit and take some of Victoria's
resources to pay for it as well though.

Im just concerned that if storm water doesn't run out to sea the sharks
will go further upriver due to more salinity. That will cause some nasty
surprises. Sharks swim upriver underturd.

are you serious?

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:

it's an interesting theory - the only problem i can find with it is that i
think it doesn't pan out in reality :-) i'd have to think about that more to
be sure where i stand on it, but as a 36y.o. child of baby boomers (dh is 38
& also the child of boomers), it certainly doesn't work in our house, &
thinking of people i know, it doesn't seem to work there either.
snip
my parents were always broke when we were growing up - do you think that
might be the real key? privilege vs lack thereof?

Yes -- I was going to list the exceptions but didn't bother. For example,
Boomer-age migrants generally don't have the Boomer mindset because they
didn't have the usual Boomer experiences -- they were too busy learning
English/working/studying/saving. The ones who migrated for purely economic
reasons, however, have children who are a lot like Baby-Boomers, because the
parents are giving the kids everything they missed out on themselves, such as
fancy weddings.

My sister has a friend whose parents put money away every week for her
wedding. By the time she was 21 they had so much money in the account that
they used some of it to pay for the 21st... All the guests got a half-bottle
of champagne to take home. Inscribed with the girl's name and birthday
details! Goodness knows what they did for the wedding. Engraved ingots as
bomboniere?!

So yes, if your Boomer parents were very poor, that's probably why you don't
think like that. They had better things to do than consider their own
self-actualisation, or do I mean self-aggrandisement.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

i wrote...
 

0tterbot wrote:
"Jonno" wrote in message
...
0tterbot wrote:
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...

And yet they let all that shorm water jsut run out to sea.
shh! the execrable liberals want to harvest storm water. (doink! aren't
they geniuses?!)

And all of
NSW will be paying for these stupid desaliantors not just the water
hungry Syndeysiders.
i know you've got an avowed set against city-folk g, but sydneysiders
subsidise a lot of country stuff. it all works out in the end.
(paying for it's not MY big problem with the whole stupid idea!!)
kylie
Wish they wouldn't take all the credit and take some of Victoria's
resources to pay for it as well though.

Im just concerned that if storm water doesn't run out to sea the sharks
will go further upriver due to more salinity. That will cause some nasty
surprises. Sharks swim upriver underturd.

are you serious?


According to a certain ABC station. Fishing program.
Melbourne
It looks like i mispelled agin.

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

g'day chookie,

don't know that citified realy says it all, but yuippiefied might?

we are baby boome parents born in the 40's to late 50's, when homes
where simple, water use was minimal as lawns weren't vogue becuae all
you could afford to mow with was a push reel mower, and lawns where
grasses like paspalum amd crows foot with seed stems. where all we ahd
for drainage was a grease trap which emptied into the back yard where
we played.

where we had a dunnie out the back (the most eco' efficient way toe
deal with solid waste) and no one perished from pandemics of diseases
so long as you where hygenic. and our fridge was an ice box and the
ice man came every oh i dunno now couple of days or so, he would pull
the remains of the old ice out and throw it into the abck yard, and
put in the new ice. in the summer the ice man would somehow accidently
drop a block on the raod so it broke up and all us kids would grab
chunks and suck on them then throw the rest at each other.

so our parents pre-war baby boomers the settlers, bought perishables
on a daily basis and could afford to do so, when the farmer came
around with his horse and cart or little truck 3 or 4 times a week
offering fresh as loacl grown in season produce, where the local dairy
man would come deliver milk inot our s/s billy each second morning (i
think?) this was straight from udder to you stuff.

where the icecream truck came every sunday with some fresh produce,
treats for the kids to be bought and cold beer on ice for the dads.
where you would be lucky to see a single car in each yard more like
every third yard now the new 'burb's have 3 & 4 sometimes more cars,
lots of big 6's and v8's and yes the obligatory status symble 4by that
the yuppies openly display to show the "better than the jones" morale.

no!! peer pressure and yuppieism and indoctrination into believeing
that these wastefull macmansion and all the trimmings are as good as
it gets. so us baby boomer as parent and grand-parents as well now are
battlers the common folk, the others are the psuedo neuvo rich yuppie
set, the real resource wasters, because money buys everything hey?
well got news for them they can't drink money as water nor can they
eat it as food.


On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:54:39 +1100, Chookie
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:

it's an interesting theory - the only problem i can find with it is that
i
think it doesn't pan out in reality :-) i'd have to think about that more
to
be sure where i stand on it, but as a 36y.o. child of baby boomers (dh is
38
& also the child of boomers), it certainly doesn't work in our house, &
thinking of people i know, it doesn't seem to work there either.
snip
my parents were always broke when we were growing up - do you think that
might be the real key? privilege vs lack thereof?

Yes -- I was going to list the exceptions but didn't bother.

I think there are too many exceptions to make the whole generalisation
become irrelevant. It would depend on personality, finance, where they
live, family life, parents, all these things in their upbringing, even
religion, culture and values would have some impact, as well as life
experiences.

I don't think this generalisation works actually.

Jen

For example,
Boomer-age migrants generally don't have the Boomer mindset because they
didn't have the usual Boomer experiences -- they were too busy learning
English/working/studying/saving. The ones who migrated for purely
economic
reasons, however, have children who are a lot like Baby-Boomers, because
the
parents are giving the kids everything they missed out on themselves, such
as
fancy weddings.

My sister has a friend whose parents put money away every week for her
wedding. By the time she was 21 they had so much money in the account
that
they used some of it to pay for the 21st... All the guests got a
half-bottle
of champagne to take home. Inscribed with the girl's name and birthday
details! Goodness knows what they did for the wedding. Engraved ingots
as
bomboniere?!

So yes, if your Boomer parents were very poor, that's probably why you
don't
think like that. They had better things to do than consider their own
self-actualisation, or do I mean self-aggrandisement.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You
may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

My friend was in the post office one day when a new resident (who
has
bought on larger acreage) was complaining that she was having to
buy a
tankful of house water (5,000 litres) every 10 days. My friend
asked
her what one earth she was doing with the water. Her response was
that she had 3 teenage children and they didn't understand the
need
for short showers.

I have cross-posted because I think aus.family might have something
to add.

I stronly object to your cross posting. You may think my post had
something to do with a generational difference but I do not. It's
about attitudes to water and waste which is relevant in this ng but
not in my opinion to a family group where I did not post and do not
want to post.

If you want to post a rant of your own to a family group then do so,
but in future please do NOT use MY post to which you attach your rant.

i wrote...
 

"Jonno" wrote in message
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:29:25 +1100, "Farm1"
please@askifyouwannaknow

about steam driven. I made the comment at a lunch recently
about
saving something to my floppy and everyone fell about laughing.
I
didn't even know that floppys had been superceded. They still
work
for me, but it's just about time this poor old thing went to the
museum.

I'm concerned about sexual references by you. "Floppy" indeed
Exactly
how old are you?

I've heard that there is a product which will fix your fixation with
floppy - it's called Viagra. Let us know how you go with it.

i wrote...
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message

i know you've got an avowed set against city-folk g,

Not all of them, just most of them. Like most American, they just
don't get it.

but sydneysiders
subsidise a lot of country stuff.

Given the continual fall in services in the country, I'd be interested
to know what they are subsidising.

i wrote...
 

thanks ross,

almost missed this post, got the link saved looks very interesting.

how easily could our leaders save more wate than they can poke a stick
at hey??

On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:24:22 GMT, Ross McKay
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

Netiquette Issue was i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

I stronly object to your cross posting. You may think my post had
something to do with a generational difference but I do not. It's
about attitudes to water and waste which is relevant in this ng but
not in my opinion to a family group where I did not post and do not
want to post.

If you want to post a rant of your own to a family group then do so,
but in future please do NOT use MY post to which you attach your rant.

I will try to remember that doing so offends you, and am sorry that you are
unhappy about being crossposted.

BUT -- if you post to Usenet, you are posting in a public forum (*). I
indicated that I had crossposted, and I included an attribution, which is
AFAIK all that is necessary. I don't think I have violated netiquette, but if
I have, please let me know which netiquette guide you are using so that I may
become better informed.

(*) So public that you are archived on Google Groups for web access too!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

In article ,
gardenlen wrote:

no!! peer pressure and yuppieism and indoctrination into believeing
that these wastefull macmansion and all the trimmings are as good as
it gets. so us baby boomer as parent and grand-parents as well now are
battlers the common folk, the others are the psuedo neuvo rich yuppie
set, the real resource wasters, because money buys everything hey?
well got news for them they can't drink money as water nor can they
eat it as food.

So in general, your kids and the kids of your friends haven't bought back in
to the rat-race?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

not sure chookie,

waht i mean is they are the way they are due to peer pressure not
because we where baby boomer parents who thought they should have
everything, quiet the opposite they developed all these wasteful ways
since leaving home, now we are trying to get them to think different
but not winning i tell you.

On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:22:11 +1100, Chookie
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

i wrote... NOW X-POSTED
 

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:

it's an interesting theory - the only problem i can find with it is that
i
think it doesn't pan out in reality :-) i'd have to think about that more
to
be sure where i stand on it, but as a 36y.o. child of baby boomers (dh is
38
& also the child of boomers), it certainly doesn't work in our house, &
thinking of people i know, it doesn't seem to work there either.
snip
my parents were always broke when we were growing up - do you think that
might be the real key? privilege vs lack thereof?

Yes -- I was going to list the exceptions but didn't bother.

hm. tbh, i'm with jen on this - i think you're just being too general :-) it
would be fair to say that people who've known nothing but privilege tend
(perhaps) to parent a little differently, but to paint entire generations
with a broad brush is something that pretty much gets my goat. individuals
within an entire generation are simply far too different both in personality
and experience for that to work well.

For example,
Boomer-age migrants generally don't have the Boomer mindset

i really don't think there's one "boomer mindset" though. the boomers have
age-related similarities in many ways (just as every generation does) but i
can't handle the idea of a boomer mindset. they were the most privileged
generation australia has ever had (i don't think subsequent generations are
nearly so privileged - and by that i'm clearly not only talking about money,
but general advantage, access, and power) and that may make some difference
between them & the rest of us, but in the main i feel parenting style comes
down to so many factors that one's generation is quite possibly the least of
it.

So yes, if your Boomer parents were very poor, that's probably why you
don't think like that. They had better things to do than consider their
own
self-actualisation, or do I mean self-aggrandisement.

well, not really :-) my dad was pretty much into self-actualisation, and
that's how i became a child of divorce g. but seriously, these are two
people (my parents) with so little in common in every imaginable way that i
find it difficult to believe they were ever married (even though i was
there). yet, their upbringings were extremely similar (and similarly
modest), they're almost the same age, were born & raised only 30km apart,
etc etc etc. they're just totally different people who, then and now, behave
extraordinarily differently in every way including their parenting styles
(then and now) and, well, everything. my example of two doesn't negate your
point, but since we're talking about the children of boomers, it's not a bad
place to start. my dad is totally overindulgent to himself & others - so
when we were broke, we were the ones taking stuff back from the supermarket
checkout because he didn't have enough money to actually get everything we'd
asked for. if we'd been wealthy, i wonder what sort of angry, self-entitled
****** i'd be, according to your theory? g
kylie

i wrote...
 

"Jonno" wrote in message
...
Im just concerned that if storm water doesn't run out to sea the sharks
will go further upriver due to more salinity. That will cause some nasty
surprises. Sharks swim upriver underturd.

are you serious?
According to a certain ABC station. Fishing program.
Melbourne

i'm speculating, but even though stormwater is "a lot" (in terms of people
actually using it) it couldn't possibly be "a lot" in terms of the ocean. a
drop in it, i'd hazard ;-)

It looks like i mispelled agin.

i was wondering what an "underturd" is, but i thought i'd just not go there.
g (you're not talking about sewage outfall, by any chance? ;-)
kylie

i wrote...
 

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"0tterbot" wrote in message

i know you've got an avowed set against city-folk g,

Not all of them, just most of them. Like most American, they just
don't get it.

but sydneysiders
subsidise a lot of country stuff.

Given the continual fall in services in the country, I'd be interested
to know what they are subsidising.

i'm wondering if the country EVER had good services, or if people remember
erroneously :-)

in nsw (as an example) there are 4 million city-folk & one million
country-folk. the one million take up a lot more space than the 4 million
do, but still have roads, schools, hospitals etc to consider. there's no way
on earth the one million are paying for the country stuff & the 4 million
paying for the city stuff because that would not be possible - it just
doesn't work that way.

in cities you get economies of scale (consider telstra cables, for example).
so the extra state & federal monies raised in cities but destined for
project whatever end up in the country too otherwise the country couldn't
afford anything at all :-). so we might help pay for their (cough)
desalinator, but they help pay for our roads, schools, hospitals, telstra
cable, etc.

tax funds for a state are for the whole state, not just some of it - yet
similarly spending for something in a state is paid for by the whole
state.
kylie

i wrote...
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"0tterbot" wrote in message

i know you've got an avowed set against city-folk g,

Not all of them, just most of them. Like most American, they just
don't get it.

but sydneysiders
subsidise a lot of country stuff.

Given the continual fall in services in the country, I'd be
interested
to know what they are subsidising.

i'm wondering if the country EVER had good services, or if people
remember
erroneously :-)

Doctors, hospitals and TAFEs are jsut 3 off the top of my head where I
know services have dropped in standard or failed to keep up.

in nsw (as an example) there are 4 million city-folk & one million
country-folk. the one million take up a lot more space than the 4
million
do, but still have roads, schools, hospitals etc to consider.
there's no way
on earth the one million are paying for the country stuff & the 4
million
paying for the city stuff because that would not be possible - it
just
doesn't work that way.

Roads are looked after by local rates UNLESS it is a major State
highway. Why do you think country roads are so shitty? Schools and
hospitals are fuunded from grant to the States from the Federal
Governement and much/most of this revenue is now raised from the GST.
Since the GST is a comsumption tax, then most rampant consumers are
the ones who pay. I guess you were thinking of city people being
those rampant consumers?

in cities you get economies of scale (consider telstra cables, for
example).
so the extra state & federal monies raised in cities but destined
for
project whatever end up in the country too otherwise the country
couldn't
afford anything at all :-). so we might help pay for their (cough)
desalinator, but they help pay for our roads, schools, hospitals,
telstra
cable, etc.

They don't pay for our roads, we do, unless it's deemed that there is
a Statewide or Natrionwide need for the road to be highway. They pay
for our schools and hospitals if they consume, otherwise they pay for
it in taxes just like the rest of us unless they are using social
services. So little Telstra improvement has not happened since the
first sale of shares that it doesn't count (and how dare the bloody
Feds sell something we owned anyway - *******s!).

But in addition to all that, there are strategic reasons why a vibrant
countryside is needed, but that philosphy has disapearred from the
thinging of any State or Federal Government over the past few decades.
Short term objectives only seem to be the goal - example: the Feds
ahve wasted the longest economic boom we've had in decades and done
nothing except aima t keeping themselves in powere - no infrastructure
spending and no long term planning or implementation - they're living
on the economic reforms set in place by Labor and yet claiming they've
done a great job economically.

tax funds for a state are for the whole state, not just some of it

Couldn't have put it better myself - shame they don"t think of that in
Macquarie St. I think that the WA and Qld governemtns might be better
at that than the NSW government.

- yet
similarly spending for something in a state is paid for by the
whole
state.
kylie