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worms! (book recommendation)
firstly, i am thrilled to announce that after nearly 6 months of work, i am
getting more & more & more worms (having started from a worm population of approximately none - when i first began planting, i could have cried. the only worms i had were some which hitchhiked in my compost bin). this is very exciting for me as much of our soil is acid clay riddled with rocks. it's becoming loamier, browner, crumblier, healthy-and-good-smelling and (obviously) wormier in front of my eyes. despite the horrible soil, i've been actually quite pleased with how much is going _right_ in the garden, which is a boost to the confidence as well. because i have about as much patience as a newborn baby, i couldn't see the point in putting off planting while i improved the soil - my philosophy being that planting will improve the soil as well as provide an impetus to improvement anyway :-) so there's my brag, thank you for reading g secondly, a REALLY INTERESTING worm book i've borrowed from the library. i will have to buy a copy as all the dry science stuff cannot possibly be retained for long after the book goes back (or indeed 5 minutes after reading). david murphy: organic growing with worms - a handbook for a better environment (penguin [viking imprint] 2005, isbn 0 670 04174 2) it's all about worms (obviously), both in terms of physiology, behaviour, i.d. etc; and how to save the earth (or at least your own garden) using them, and also gives a lot of infomation both on worms in gardening/agriculture and also farming the worms themselves either for your own use or for profit. (it covers compost worms as well as earthworms.) it's NOT a gardening book & isn't meant to be - the author concurs he actually knows nothing about gardening - but more about what worms do and how they effect the soil (and therefore the farm/garden) positively. as gardeners we understand that the soil itself is so vitally important to success & that "worms are good", but this book really gets into _how_ the process works & by extension what one can do to encourage worms & then utilise their tireless activity. also as a side note, he explains how preparation 500 (biodynamics) actually works - sort of. sadly, the term "cosmic forces" was used without enough irony (sigh), but at least it's an explanation which makes actual sense. (i strongly suspect one could make prep 500 without all the hoodoo & bullshit & it would still work, now i've read a reasonably-rational explanation, i.e. that the process itself - without the hoodoo - should work). (that's a rant for another day, though). it tells you how to make your own prep 500 for that matter. highly recommended!!! kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
firstly, i am thrilled to announce that after nearly 6 months of work, i am getting more & more & more worms Congratulations! Having started my veggie garden with a similar situation, I can understand your excitement. (having started from a worm population of approximately none - when i first began planting, i could have cried. the only worms i had were some which hitchhiked in my compost bin). this is very exciting for me as much of our soil is acid clay riddled with rocks. it's becoming loamier, browner, crumblier, healthy-and-good-smelling and (obviously) wormier in front of my eyes. No doubt that horse poop has helped :-)) secondly, a REALLY INTERESTING worm book i've borrowed from the library. i will have to buy a copy as all the dry science stuff cannot possibly be retained for long after the book goes back (or indeed 5 minutes after reading). david murphy: organic growing with worms - a handbook for a better environment (penguin [viking imprint] 2005, isbn 0 670 04174 2) also as a side note, he explains how preparation 500 (biodynamics) actually works - sort of. sadly, the term "cosmic forces" was used without enough irony (sigh), but at least it's an explanation which makes actual sense. And what did he have to say (in a nut shell if you can give it) about Formula 500 or was he too long winded? |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... No doubt that horse poop has helped :-)) i'll say! i've even put it on a spot where there actually wasn't any topsoil at all; i scraped together some straw & leaves & put my blessed horsepoo on top & mixed it all around a bit, & that spot is giving me my best-ever lettuces (i'm not generally good at lettuce, but these ones are pretty good!) all praise horse poo! And what did he have to say (in a nut shell if you can give it) about Formula 500 or was he too long winded? it was actually covered very briefly. even more briefly: firstly, assume you've read the book & are now more aware of bacteria's relationship to worms & soil generally. :-) in short, the 500 is composted cow poo that is absolutely chockers with bacteria, in particular actinomycetes. it's been composted over winter at a depth where the bacteria are warm enough to still be happy & eat the poo. because you have dug & buried the cow horns, there is plenty of oxygen available for them to complete their task. the fact that the horn is, er, horn-shaped means oxygen can "follow" the bacteria down into the horn (people have tried with other containers & it didn't work). bd-ers think the keratin in the horn must have some sort of positive effect but nobody knows (i'm thinking it might be because air can still pass through horn somewhat? at any rate, a mr podolinsky, bd-er extraordinare, thinks other containers block the "cosmic forces" but i am disinclined to think _that_ is what they are blocking.) when you dig it up & put it in water & stir it vigorously, you are oxygenating the bacteria all over again, & so their population explodes. (at this point he started on with "cosmic forces" & my eyes just rolled right out of my head). bacteria can double in quantity in 20 minutes with oxygenation, so as the stirring process is a long one, the result is a great deal of bacteria. you strain, etc, & apply the solution at night, as u.v. light would kill the bacteria, so by the time the sun comes up the bacteria has had a chance to work its way into the soil, and the fact that it's full moon apparently means soil moisture is drawn up somewhat to aid the bacteria in entering. b.d. soil is therefore just hyper-bacterialised organic soil. with so much more bacteria, the other animals (including worms) benefit, and the whole system is therefore improved & improves on itself. that's about it!! i love these sorts of ideas, but all the faff about cosmic forces etc just puts me off. are you thinking about converting your farm to biodynamics? kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message No doubt that horse poop has helped :-)) i'll say! i've even put it on a spot where there actually wasn't any topsoil at all; i scraped together some straw & leaves & put my blessed horsepoo on top & mixed it all around a bit, & that spot is giving me my best-ever lettuces (i'm not generally good at lettuce, but these ones are pretty good!) all praise horse poo! Perhaps it wasn't the horse poop but cosmic forces??????????????? Actually I'm always gobbsmacked by how astoundingly well the earth can respond. I started my veg garden on what had effectively been "virgin" soil. This farm was originally a soldier settler block which wasn't cleared until the 60s and where the veg garden is had never even been pasture improved - just the claysubsoil (to describe it as being topsoil would be laughable) with lots of quartz and shale rocks and not a worm in sight and with limited native grasses as cover. Your description of your place fits very well with my own experience. But, give even that unpromising start a bit of help and care and all that soil biota just seems to burst into life, but the effort has to go on for a few years. And what did he have to say (in a nut shell if you can give it) about Formula 500 or was he too long winded? it was actually covered very briefly. even more briefly: firstly, assume you've read the book & are now more aware of bacteria's relationship to worms & soil generally. :-) in short, the 500 is composted cow poo that is absolutely chockers with bacteria, in particular actinomycetes. it's been composted over winter at a depth where the bacteria are warm enough to still be happy & eat the poo. because you have dug & buried the cow horns, there is plenty of oxygen available for them to complete their task. the fact that the horn is, er, horn-shaped means oxygen can "follow" the bacteria down into the horn (people have tried with other containers & it didn't work). bd-ers think the keratin in the horn must have some sort of positive effect but nobody knows (i'm thinking it might be because air can still pass through horn somewhat? at any rate, a mr podolinsky, bd-er extraordinare, thinks other containers block the "cosmic forces" but i am disinclined to think _that_ is what they are blocking.) when you dig it up & put it in water & stir it vigorously, you are oxygenating the bacteria all over again, & so their population explodes. (at this point he started on with "cosmic forces" & my eyes just rolled right out of my head). bacteria can double in quantity in 20 minutes with oxygenation, so as the stirring process is a long one, the result is a great deal of bacteria. you strain, etc, & apply the solution at night, as u.v. light would kill the bacteria, so by the time the sun comes up the bacteria has had a chance to work its way into the soil, and the fact that it's full moon apparently means soil moisture is drawn up somewhat to aid the bacteria in entering. b.d. soil is therefore just hyper-bacterialised organic soil. with so much more bacteria, the other animals (including worms) benefit, and the whole system is therefore improved & improves on itself. that's about it!! Thank you for the description, which actually makes sense when put in that way. Friendly bacteria, bred in an environment much as we would breed earthworms and then used in a way that will cause least loss of the bacterial benefits. i love these sorts of ideas, but all the faff about cosmic forces etc just puts me off. Yes - rather gag making but then it does seem to work, but I keep asking could it work without all that faffing about and the way you describe it, then it would appear that it could. are you thinking about converting your farm to biodynamics? No bloody way! I like our animals to be protected by the correct vaccinations for illnesses such as the clostridial diseases and from my reading it seems that none of the broader "organic" schools of thought believe in the use of vaccinations. I think that is daft and flying in the face of good use of science. However, I certainly don't like to use chemicals willy nilly either. Even glyphosate, which I think is a reasonably good product, I use very sparingly and only when I can't get rid of a weed by using a less intrusive method. I've been nagging my husband for years now to check out the Yeomans Plow (how's that for an Aussie company? - silly sods cant' even spell plough!). The Yeomans seems to me to be a very sensible invention for soil airation and improvement along the same lines and we veg gardeners try to achieve all the time and I have finally managed to get him to show an interest - the drought has done some good at long last but we still have to use some herbicides on the pastures as some weeds are too invasive to be dealt with by hand. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... best-ever lettuces (i'm not generally good at lettuce, but these ones are pretty good!) all praise horse poo! Perhaps it wasn't the horse poop but cosmic forces??????????????? lol! stop that g Actually I'm always gobbsmacked by how astoundingly well the earth can respond. I started my veg garden on what had effectively been "virgin" soil. This farm was originally a soldier settler block which wasn't cleared until the 60s and where the veg garden is had never even been pasture improved - just the claysubsoil (to describe it as being topsoil would be laughable) with lots of quartz and shale rocks and not a worm in sight and with limited native grasses as cover. Your description of your place fits very well with my own experience. But, give even that unpromising start a bit of help and care and all that soil biota just seems to burst into life, but the effort has to go on for a few years. i'm kind of assuming, the rest of my life g but i know it won't always be as hard (work) as it is atm. it's encouraging to know it WILL happen. i'm pretty sure any soil can be retrieved - it's just a question of how much it is worth it to you to do so. Thank you for the description, which actually makes sense when put in that way. Friendly bacteria, bred in an environment much as we would breed earthworms and then used in a way that will cause least loss of the bacterial benefits. that's exactly it, & don't you just wish they'd say so??! i love these sorts of ideas, but all the faff about cosmic forces etc just puts me off. Yes - rather gag making but then it does seem to work, but I keep asking could it work without all that faffing about and the way you describe it, then it would appear that it could. i really would think so. gather ye some boiled cow horns & give it a go :-) (apparently the poo must be fresh, and from lactating cows for some reason). what is annoying me extraordinarily is: anyone can see it works, yet almost everyone is put off it because of all the cosmic twaddle. IF steiner had made some attempt to work out in 1926 or whenever it was exactly how & why it works, it could have become mainstream by now & we'd all be better off. instead, the preparations cost a fortune, nobody will go into how or why it works, & it's a minor (albeit growing) "movement" when it really should be perfectly ordinary. wtf is a "cosmic force"? there are loads of them! gravity, sunlight, weather, tides, bla bla bla. are you thinking about converting your farm to biodynamics? No bloody way! I like our animals to be protected by the correct vaccinations for illnesses such as the clostridial diseases and from my reading it seems that none of the broader "organic" schools of thought believe in the use of vaccinations. I think that is daft and flying in the face of good use of science. However, I certainly don't like to use chemicals willy nilly either. Even glyphosate, which I think is a reasonably good product, I use very sparingly and only when I can't get rid of a weed by using a less intrusive method. I've been nagging my husband for years now to check out the Yeomans Plow (how's that for an Aussie company? - silly sods cant' even spell plough!). The Yeomans seems to me to be a very sensible invention for soil airation and improvement along the same lines and we veg gardeners try to achieve all the time and I have finally managed to get him to show an interest - the drought has done some good at long last but we still have to use some herbicides on the pastures as some weeds are too invasive to be dealt with by hand. i'll have to look for the yeomans PLOUGH g. atm all i can contemplate is one of those tiny ride-on jobs. big machinery is out of the question. (really, i want a pair of donkeys and the type of plough they can pull for me. :-) kylie the luddite |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message Perhaps it wasn't the horse poop but cosmic forces??????????????? lol! stop that g Sorry, couldn't resist it. Actually I'm always gobbsmacked by how astoundingly well the earth can respond. I started my veg garden on what had effectively been "virgin" soil. This farm was originally a soldier settler block which wasn't cleared until the 60s and where the veg garden is had never even been pasture improved - just the claysubsoil (to describe it as being topsoil would be laughable) with lots of quartz and shale rocks and not a worm in sight and with limited native grasses as cover. Your description of your place fits very well with my own experience. But, give even that unpromising start a bit of help and care and all that soil biota just seems to burst into life, but the effort has to go on for a few years. i'm kind of assuming, the rest of my life g but i know it won't always be as hard (work) as it is atm. it's encouraging to know it WILL happen. Yes to all of those. The first 10 years are probably the worst/hardest. i'm pretty sure any soil can be retrieved - it's just a question of how much it is worth it to you to do so. Agreed, assuming of course that there is no real toxicity involved. However, there are some situations which will always have a limited chance of being "productive" because the inputs would be too great. Thank you for the description, which actually makes sense when put in that way. Friendly bacteria, bred in an environment much as we would breed earthworms and then used in a way that will cause least loss of the bacterial benefits. that's exactly it, & don't you just wish they'd say so??! Too simple to say it in plain english. Must better to invoke cosmic forces. i love these sorts of ideas, but all the faff about cosmic forces etc just puts me off. Yes - rather gag making but then it does seem to work, but I keep asking could it work without all that faffing about and the way you describe it, then it would appear that it could. i really would think so. gather ye some boiled cow horns & give it a go :-) As Mrs Beeton would have said: "first catch your cows............" (apparently the poo must be fresh, and from lactating cows for some reason). Easy round here - more lactating and pooping cows that there has been grass of recent times. what is annoying me extraordinarily is: anyone can see it works, yet almost everyone is put off it because of all the cosmic twaddle. IF steiner had made some attempt to work out in 1926 or whenever it was exactly how & why it works, it could have become mainstream by now & we'd all be better off. instead, the preparations cost a fortune, nobody will go into how or why it works, & it's a minor (albeit growing) "movement" when it really should be perfectly ordinary. wtf is a "cosmic force"? there are loads of them! gravity, sunlight, weather, tides, bla bla bla. :-)) You may just have hit the nail on the head in your description of the way it's done. Protection and nurturing of the bacteria from inception to spreading. Most gardening is done at human convenience and not for the benefit of microflora/biota. are you thinking about converting your farm to biodynamics? No bloody way! I like our animals to be protected by the correct vaccinations for illnesses such as the clostridial diseases and from my reading it seems that none of the broader "organic" schools of thought believe in the use of vaccinations. I think that is daft and flying in the face of good use of science. However, I certainly don't like to use chemicals willy nilly either. Even glyphosate, which I think is a reasonably good product, I use very sparingly and only when I can't get rid of a weed by using a less intrusive method. I've been nagging my husband for years now to check out the Yeomans Plow (how's that for an Aussie company? - silly sods cant' even spell plough!). The Yeomans seems to me to be a very sensible invention for soil airation and improvement along the same lines and we veg gardeners try to achieve all the time and I have finally managed to get him to show an interest - the drought has done some good at long last but we still have to use some herbicides on the pastures as some weeds are too invasive to be dealt with by hand. i'll have to look for the yeomans PLOUGH g. But remember if you want to find it with google you must call it a PLOW ( I assume that they must want to sell into the US market) atm all i can contemplate is one of those tiny ride-on jobs. big machinery is out of the question. But do you have a farm and need to renovate pastures? If not, dont' worry about it although it I think you would enjoy reading Yeomans. Most committed gardeners seem to. (really, i want a pair of donkeys and the type of plough they can pull for me. :-) kylie the luddite Snort! You'll do anything to get pelleted manure! |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... :-)) You may just have hit the nail on the head in your description of the way it's done. Protection and nurturing of the bacteria from inception to spreading. Most gardening is done at human convenience and not for the benefit of microflora/biota. .... despite that the benefit of the biota is a benefit for the humans!! (i'm wanting to get to the point where they do more work than i do ;-) i wonder if they can be trained to sow seed? i'll have to look for the yeomans PLOUGH g. But remember if you want to find it with google you must call it a PLOW ( I assume that they must want to sell into the US market) in fact, i put in "yeomans plough" and up it came first thing! that's what meta-tags are for - you put in every conceivable spelling or misspelling someone might make while looking for you - which in this case should include "plow" in the meta-tags but not the business name, NOT the other way around. i found it a weirdly-organised site, didn't have 12 minutes to download all the plough photos & info, did not like their spelling & sent them a snippy email to say so :-) if they want to think i'd have bought 25 ploughs if not for their site arrangement & spelling, well all power to me g. atm all i can contemplate is one of those tiny ride-on jobs. big machinery is out of the question. But do you have a farm and need to renovate pastures? If not, dont' worry about it yes i have a farm & yes i need to renovate pasture (well, i need to renovate pasture into a better growing medium!!) my farm is tiny & even most of that is bushland & is going to stay that way, so we are talking about a very tiny scale indeed, comparitively speaking. that's one reason i can only contemplate tiny machinery. the other reason is that it's just me. for example, it took me many years to come to accept a power drill over a hand drill (although i am fully converted now ;-) people round here only have livestock & don't grow crops except tree crops (or annual crops for pasture for their animals). looking at this one way, it's quite obvious why - the soil's not "fertile" in the classic sense, although obviously i'm exploring its potential. but looking at it another way, it doesn't make that much sense, actually, so i think i would be onto a good thing to have a mixture of things i am doing to get the farm to pay for itself. (dh has a job so there's no rush with this - hence i ended up focussing in the immediate term on making the land support US only, then it can progress to supporting itself). i need systems! i'm trying to put them in place but underestimated how long this all takes. the chicken-garden system is well underway albeit still terribly time-consuming, the next system will probably revolve around some little pigs to get bigger areas of soil more fertile, and a bit of a house-cow system when the fences get fixed. past owners have farmed commercially in the past (for most of its history) but they're not here now, so i want to fix their messes & get on with it myself. although it I think you would enjoy reading Yeomans. Most committed gardeners seem to. i shall try again :-) (really, i want a pair of donkeys and the type of plough they can pull for me. :-) kylie the luddite Snort! You'll do anything to get pelleted manure! would going into rhapsodies about their sweet fuzzy faces make any difference? kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote: people round here only have livestock & don't grow crops except tree crops (or annual crops for pasture for their animals). looking at this one way, it's quite obvious why - the soil's not "fertile" in the classic sense, although obviously i'm exploring its potential. but looking at it another way, it doesn't make that much sense, actually, so i think i would be onto a good thing to have a mixture of things i am doing to get the farm to pay for itself. (dh has a job so there's no rush with this - hence i ended up focussing in the immediate term on making the land support US only, then it can progress to supporting itself). i need systems! i'm trying to put them in place but underestimated how long this all takes. the chicken-garden system is well underway albeit still terribly time-consuming, the next system will probably revolve around some little pigs to get bigger areas of soil more fertile, and a bit of a house-cow system when the fences get fixed. past owners have farmed commercially in the past (for most of its history) but they're not here now, so i want to fix their messes & get on with it myself. Have you considered something like alley-cropping? You'll find it mentioned in peermaculture books, and I've seen it being done in the WA wheat belt. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
worms! (book recommendation)
"Chookie" wrote in message
... In article , "0tterbot" wrote: people round here only have livestock & don't grow crops except tree crops (or annual crops for pasture for their animals). looking at this one way, it's quite obvious why - the soil's not "fertile" in the classic sense, although obviously i'm exploring its potential. but looking at it another way, it doesn't make that much sense, actually, so i think i would be onto a good thing to have a mixture of things i am doing to get the farm to pay for itself. (dh has a job so there's no rush with this - hence i ended up focussing in the immediate term on making the land support US only, then it can progress to supporting itself). i need systems! i'm trying to put them in place but underestimated how long this all takes. the chicken-garden system is well underway albeit still terribly time-consuming, the next system will probably revolve around some little pigs to get bigger areas of soil more fertile, and a bit of a house-cow system when the fences get fixed. past owners have farmed commercially in the past (for most of its history) but they're not here now, so i want to fix their messes & get on with it myself. Have you considered something like alley-cropping? You'll find it mentioned in peermaculture books, and I've seen it being done in the WA wheat belt. permies make me scream. kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote: Have you considered something like alley-cropping? You'll find it mentioned in peermaculture books, and I've seen it being done in the WA wheat belt. permies make me scream. puts in earplugs Haven't we had this discussion? -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
worms! (book recommendation)
"Chookie" wrote in message
... In article , "0tterbot" wrote: Have you considered something like alley-cropping? You'll find it mentioned in peermaculture books, and I've seen it being done in the WA wheat belt. permies make me scream. puts in earplugs Haven't we had this discussion? we have. and i'm sorry to have given such a stupid response. to answer a bit better - i'm pretty much of the view now that mixed cropping is a much better idea. kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... i'll have to look for the yeomans PLOUGH g. But remember if you want to find it with google you must call it a PLOW ( I assume that they must want to sell into the US market) atm all i can contemplate is one of those tiny ride-on jobs. big machinery is out of the question. But do you have a farm and need to renovate pastures? If not, dont' worry about it although it I think you would enjoy reading Yeomans. Most committed gardeners seem to. right. after a bit of back-and-forthing, yeomans have sent me their catalogue, and various other burblings. i'm a bit horrified that they are pro-nuclear. and also a bit horrified about other spelling mistakes (actual mistakes) in their leaflets - but let's not go there again. perhaps i am also horrified that, for a machinery company, they have a LOT of opinions (albeit badly-spelled ;-). there is an element of horror that i have no idea at all about farm machinery & can't make heads or tails of most of it. g kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote: right. after a bit of back-and-forthing, yeomans have sent me their catalogue, and various other burblings. i'm a bit horrified that they are pro-nuclear. and also a bit horrified about other spelling mistakes (actual mistakes) in their leaflets - but let's not go there again. perhaps i am also horrified that, for a machinery company, they have a LOT of opinions (albeit badly-spelled ;-). I find some of the opinions of the Diggers Club a bit horrific (particularly the nonsense they talk about native plants), but I still buy their seeds. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message right. after a bit of back-and-forthing, yeomans have sent me their catalogue, and various other burblings. i'm a bit horrified that they are pro-nuclear. Snort! These days I'm getting so browned off with so many things I see on the news, I'm beginning to wonder if it's just me or if the whole world has gone barking mad. If it's Howard, Ruddock, Downer, Denam or Iemma, I know it's not me, but some of the other garbage that flows out...................... I can hear the delightful (gag!) Christopher Pyne pontificating in the background on TV and already I'm soooooo sick of vaudeville that I'll be incredibly relieved when the Fed election is finally over. How any electorate could send him to Parliament is beyond me - must be a majority of total Wallies in his electorate. and also a bit horrified about other spelling mistakes (actual mistakes) in their leaflets - but let's not go there again. perhaps i am also horrified that, I also have real thing about spelling mistakes and especially ones from organisation that should be capable of doing a better job. It' so sloppily unprofessional. But having said that, I have heard lots of good reports of the Yeomans Plows (gag again!) for a machinery company, they have a LOT of opinions God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous. I wish he'd shut up or the anchor person would put an apple in his mouth before roasting him. (albeit badly-spelled ;-). there is an element of horror that i have no idea at all about farm machinery & can't make heads or tails of most of it. g You sound a bit like I do when it comes to reading the technology ads that arrive in the Saturday papers. I look at the ads and haven't got a clue what the product they are advertising actually does. I can recognise a computer or an I-poddy thing and even one of those itty bitty Monitor topped cameras, or external HD, but some of the other stuff????????????? So what is it you don't understand. Not that I can necessarily help you but their may be some comfort in mutual ignorance. I've asked them to send me their "RED BOOK" but that was some time ago now and the sodding thing still hasn't arrived. Now that the rain ahs arrived we need to get moving on a suitable plough to fit our tractor's capacity. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"Chookie" wrote in message
... In article , "0tterbot" wrote: right. after a bit of back-and-forthing, yeomans have sent me their catalogue, and various other burblings. i'm a bit horrified that they are pro-nuclear. and also a bit horrified about other spelling mistakes (actual mistakes) in their leaflets - but let's not go there again. perhaps i am also horrified that, for a machinery company, they have a LOT of opinions (albeit badly-spelled ;-). I find some of the opinions of the Diggers Club a bit horrific (particularly the nonsense they talk about native plants), but I still buy their seeds. Have you used Eden seeds at all? |
worms! (book recommendation)
"Chookie" wrote in message
... In article , "0tterbot" wrote: right. after a bit of back-and-forthing, yeomans have sent me their catalogue, and various other burblings. i'm a bit horrified that they are pro-nuclear. and also a bit horrified about other spelling mistakes (actual mistakes) in their leaflets - but let's not go there again. perhaps i am also horrified that, for a machinery company, they have a LOT of opinions (albeit badly-spelled ;-). I find some of the opinions of the Diggers Club a bit horrific (particularly the nonsense they talk about native plants), but I still buy their seeds. oh, i agree (if you're talking about their tendency to dismiss "native plants" almost entirely out of hand!!! it's pretty outrageous). but digger's don't undermine themselves in a breezily scary way - it's more a preference & gardeners know their own preferences, so i suppose i feel that doesn't matter in my own relationship with digger's. digger's don't suggest for example that nuclear energy is not only economic for australia, but that we can dump nuclear waste "in the titanic"(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) i'm starting to wonder if the yeomans family aren't just crazy hillfolk with engineering degrees. (who won't just use their dictionaries.) kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... I can hear the delightful (gag!) Christopher Pyne pontificating in the background on TV and already I'm soooooo sick of vaudeville that I'll be incredibly relieved when the Fed election is finally over. How any electorate could send him to Parliament is beyond me - must be a majority of total Wallies in his electorate. i see that your reading of my post was ruined by the presence of christopher pyne on lateline g. I also have real thing about spelling mistakes and especially ones from organisation that should be capable of doing a better job. It' so sloppily unprofessional. that's it. along with the oddball opinions, it creates doubt in one's mind. But having said that, I have heard lots of good reports of the Yeomans Plows (gag again!) to the utterly uninformed eye, they seem very flexible! and i do like that idea of ripping without turning (which obviously isn't a new idea). for a machinery company, they have a LOT of opinions God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous. i think they are ready to soil their frilly knickers. did you see p. costello the other night? it took us 1/2 hour to work out what the hell was wrong with him. eventually dh hit upon it - he was acting exactly like john clarke impersonating p. costello. it was _surreal_. creepy though he can be, i don't mind p. costello as he has that saving grace - a sense of humour, but i think maybe paul keating was right - he's all tip & no iceberg now. tee hee. So what is it you don't understand. Not that I can necessarily help you but their may be some comfort in mutual ignorance. i can't even seem to work out what a "coulter" is! I've asked them to send me their "RED BOOK" but that was some time ago now and the sodding thing still hasn't arrived. Now that the rain ahs arrived we need to get moving on a suitable plough to fit our tractor's capacity. if you would like mine, i would be happy to send it as i have doubts it's any use to me - i just don't need that sort of scale & i think i must have thought they'd have some sort of tiny all-in-one object for the smaller user. they got it to me in a couple of days, very efficient. let me know if you would like it. kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous. I wish he'd shut up or the anchor person would put an apple in his mouth before roasting him. I Loooove the ABC people....all the other stations do is put some desperately keen decorative young journo in to ask mundane questions that they think are *very* original....whereas ABC journos just love making the pollies squirm....especially Kerry O'Brien. I wonder how many pollies go off and cry with humiliation in the ABC toilets after being interviewed by him... |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message I can hear the delightful (gag!) Christopher Pyne pontificating in the background i see that your reading of my post was ruined by the presence of christopher pyne on lateline g. Yup! I'm only glad I was in another room and didn't actually listen to anything he said. My rather large blundstone might otherwise have put a hole in the TV. I also have real thing about spelling mistakes and especially ones from organisation that should be capable of doing a better job. It' so sloppily unprofessional. that's it. along with the oddball opinions, it creates doubt in one's mind. I must admit that I don't mind oddball opinions if it's not opinions being foisted on me by politicians who actually have to power to impact on my life. I might argue strongly against them but I find that they make me think about why I don't like them so I think they are often a good brain tester. But having said that, I have heard lots of good reports of the Yeomans Plows (gag again!) to the utterly uninformed eye, they seem very flexible! and i do like that idea of ripping without turning (which obviously isn't a new idea). In agricultural terms I think it was new to this country and given that they also export to the US, I think they were certainly there in the earliest of days. If you read the Yeoman's books you'll se what I mean. I know there are at least some chapters available online if not the whole of the first book. Yeomans was the equivalent of the Peter Andrews (of natural sequence farming fame) of his day. You may also be interested in the Potter Farms in Victoria of you need to regenerate farming land. i think they are ready to soil their frilly knickers. Yup. They are starting to ask to be called by their first name these days. amazing how and election can know off their arrogance. did you see p. costello the other night? it took us 1/2 hour to work out what the hell was wrong with him. eventually dh hit upon it - he was acting exactly like john clarke impersonating p. costello. it was _surreal_. creepy though he can be, i don't mind p. costello as he has that saving grace - a sense of humour, but i think maybe paul keating was right - he's all tip & no iceberg now. tee hee. I actually don't find Costello creepy at all. The real problem for many pollies is that they are very differnt in the flesh than they appear on the box or in the 10 second grabs on the radio. He is a very decent human being (with that good sense of humour you mentioned) and I could cope with the Libs being in govt if he was at the helm (except I do have some concerns given that he was the legal eagle involved in the infamous Dollar Sweets court case). He isn't up himself like some. I also like Bronwyn Bishop. Pity she gets such undeserved bad press - she actually has a conscience. But I agree with Keating. Since Costello didn't make his run when he last threatened to, he won't now have a chance. So what is it you don't understand. Not that I can necessarily help you but their may be some comfort in mutual ignorance. i can't even seem to work out what a "coulter" is! Its the cutting bit. Probably best to show you a pic so look at: http://www.unibar.com.au/products/ag/ub44-900.html It's the round discs in front of the shanks. I've asked them to send me their "RED BOOK" but that was some time ago now and the sodding thing still hasn't arrived. Now that the rain ahs arrived we need to get moving on a suitable plough to fit our tractor's capacity. if you would like mine, i would be happy to send it as i have doubts it's any use to me - i just don't need that sort of scale & i think i must have thought they'd have some sort of tiny all-in-one object for the smaller user. they got it to me in a couple of days, very efficient. let me know if you would like it. Thanks for the offer but since I've already asked them for it, I'm probably in the system somewhere - I mailed them so I might just have to do as you did and go online if it's not here in a couple of days. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"meee" wrote in message
God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous. I wish he'd shut up or the anchor person would put an apple in his mouth before roasting him. I Loooove the ABC people....all the other stations do is put some desperately keen decorative young journo in to ask mundane questions that they think are *very* original.... I think that describing the people on the commercial channels as being "journos" is far too complimentary. They arent' a journo's bootstraps to my way of thinking. whereas ABC journos just love making the pollies squirm....especially Kerry O'Brien. I wonder how many pollies go off and cry with humiliation in the ABC toilets after being interviewed by him... I think the woman on Lateline is even better than Kerry. She is so smilingly polite and charming and laughs with them but then won't let them off the hook till they actually answer the question that she asked them. They squirm and prevaricate but each time she brings them right back and eventually gets an answer out of them. Don't know her name, but she will go far is she doesn't move over to a commercial channel. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"Stuart Naylor" wrote in message
... On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:25:42 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: "meee" wrote in message I Loooove the ABC people....all the other stations do is put some desperately keen decorative young journo in to ask mundane questions that they think are *very* original.... whereas ABC journos just love making the pollies squirm....especially Kerry O'Brien. I wonder how many pollies go off and cry with humiliation in the ABC toilets after being interviewed by him... I think the woman on Lateline is even better than Kerry. She is so smilingly polite and charming and laughs with them but then won't let them off the hook till they actually answer the question that she asked them. They squirm and prevaricate but each time she brings them right back and eventually gets an answer out of them. Don't know her name, but she will go far is she doesn't move over to a commercial channel. I've never watched Lateline because it comes on too late for me. But one talented ABC personality left Melbourne ABC Radio and took up a position in morning radio ABC Sydney and is now on Lateline. Was she blonde or dark haired, were you thinking of Virginia Trioli? Dark hair but I don't think I've ever caught her name, I've just noticed how good she is, extremely charming and appears to be so quite naturally which tends to lull them into a false sense of security that she'll have not noticed that they didn't answer the question but she's like a terrier and doesn't let them off the hook at all. Very talented and a very good mind. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... "meee" wrote in message God!!! So does the delectible Christopher Pyne. If his whiny tone of voice is any indication, the Govt must be getting very nervous. I wish he'd shut up or the anchor person would put an apple in his mouth before roasting him. I Loooove the ABC people....all the other stations do is put some desperately keen decorative young journo in to ask mundane questions that they think are *very* original.... I think that describing the people on the commercial channels as being "journos" is far too complimentary. They arent' a journo's bootstraps to my way of thinking. Too true. Probably graduates of the aAustralian school of Film and TV.... whereas ABC journos just love making the pollies squirm....especially Kerry O'Brien. I wonder how many pollies go off and cry with humiliation in the ABC toilets after being interviewed by him... I think the woman on Lateline is even better than Kerry. She is so smilingly polite and charming and laughs with them but then won't let them off the hook till they actually answer the question that she asked them. They squirm and prevaricate but each time she brings them right back and eventually gets an answer out of them. Don't know her name, but she will go far is she doesn't move over to a commercial channel. Where she's have a career of, oh, five years......SBS is also good. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... I've never watched Lateline because it comes on too late for me. But one talented ABC personality left Melbourne ABC Radio and took up a position in morning radio ABC Sydney and is now on Lateline. Was she blonde or dark haired, were you thinking of Virginia Trioli? Dark hair but I don't think I've ever caught her name, I've just noticed how good she is, extremely charming and appears to be so quite naturally which tends to lull them into a false sense of security that she'll have not noticed that they didn't answer the question but she's like a terrier and doesn't let them off the hook at all. Very talented and a very good mind. ya, it was virginia trioli last friday. i'm not sure if she'll always be there or if it's temporary - i adored maxine mckew passionately & so i can't really accept anyone else of a friday :-) but, all things must change. kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... that's it. along with the oddball opinions, it creates doubt in one's mind. I must admit that I don't mind oddball opinions if it's not opinions being foisted on me by politicians who actually have to power to impact on my life. I might argue strongly against them but I find that they make me think about why I don't like them so I think they are often a good brain tester. i should probably rephrase that, as i don't mind oddball opinions either in fact. well, i'm sure i object to some of them. what i object to is oddball bits within an otherwise non-oddball system of belief/thought/argument. e.g.: there's nothing oddball about espousing ripping systems to regenerate soil and doing various things to promote soil health nor the idea that soil health is the key to saving us all. BUT, if within that system of thought the yeomans are _also_ espousing nuclear energy as part of the system when we all know it cannot be made economic for 30- 50 years; advocating broad-scale clearing (because they've decided carbon sequestration into soil, rather than or as well as trees is the key); and making bizarre claims such as that nuclear waste has a 90% breakdown within 50 years when no other person (e.g. nuclear scientists) say any such thing (even most plastics don't break down that fast!). the first example makes no sense - it's totally uneconomic; any benefit would simply be too slow and any potential advantage is tainted by the question of what to do with the waste (obviously "we" can't just "put it in the titanic"). the second example is daft because even if carbon sequestration into soil is "better" than into trees, trees clearly have many other uses other than as carbon sinks. and afaik, the third claim is simply wrong. i could give other examples but i'm concerned i'm just whingeing :-) the whacko booklet is quite recent but is already out of date, that would be one problem (e.g. no mention of geothermal energy). so yeah, people can be oddball & that's fine, but if they're promoting a system, the whole system has to be consistent & logical on its own terms. In agricultural terms I think it was new to this country and given that they also export to the US, I think they were certainly there in the earliest of days. If you read the Yeoman's books you'll se what I mean. I know there are at least some chapters available online if not the whole of the first book. Yeomans was the equivalent of the Peter Andrews (of natural sequence farming fame) of his day. mm, but ripping-without-turning was/is entirely promoted in australia by the permies, i thought(?) not to put too fine a point on it, the yeomans are pretty obscure. if they stuck to their part (making machinery for those types of ends) without telling everyone to chop down trees and go nuclear & that there's "no point" in anyone saving energy(!), maybe things would be different! (similar to my gripe about the biodynamic set ;-) I actually don't find Costello creepy at all. i find his love affair with those hillsong snots to be very, very creepy and dubious. other than that, and most of his politics and policies, i don't have a problem with him :-) The real problem for many pollies is that they are very differnt in the flesh than they appear on the box or in the 10 second grabs on the radio. He is a very decent human being (with that good sense of humour you mentioned) and I could cope with the Libs being in govt if he was at the helm i'd prefer it, to tell you the truth. i think that moment came last year, was not taken up, & there's going to be a few people sorry that it didn't happen. (except I do have some concerns given that he was the legal eagle involved in the infamous Dollar Sweets court case). He isn't up himself like some. I also like Bronwyn Bishop. Pity she gets such undeserved bad press - she actually has a conscience. i think she's a bitch from hell who also plays the man but not the ball in a humourless evil way, but then again i rather like amanda vanstone for her forthrightness, which makes people fall off their chairs sometimes when i say that :-) Its the cutting bit. Probably best to show you a pic so look at: http://www.unibar.com.au/products/ag/ub44-900.html It's the round discs in front of the shanks. heavens, i thought those were wheels of some kind. Thanks for the offer but since I've already asked them for it, I'm probably in the system somewhere - I mailed them so I might just have to do as you did and go online if it's not here in a couple of days. have a moan at them about their terrible spelling - it makes them sit up & take notice ;-) kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: Have you used Eden seeds at all? No -- are they less, um, forthright than Clive Blazey? -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
... "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... that's it. along with the oddball opinions, it creates doubt in one's mind. I must admit that I don't mind oddball opinions if it's not opinions being foisted on me by politicians who actually have to power to impact on my life. I might argue strongly against them but I find that they make me think about why I don't like them so I think they are often a good brain tester. i should probably rephrase that, as i don't mind oddball opinions either in fact. well, i'm sure i object to some of them. what i object to is oddball bits within an otherwise non-oddball system of belief/thought/argument. e.g.: there's nothing oddball about espousing ripping systems to regenerate soil and doing various things to promote soil health nor the idea that soil health is the key to saving us all. BUT, if within that system of thought the yeomans are _also_ espousing nuclear energy as part of the system when we all know it cannot be made economic for 30- 50 years; advocating broad-scale clearing (because they've decided carbon sequestration into soil, rather than or as well as trees is the key); and making bizarre claims such as that nuclear waste has a 90% breakdown within 50 years when no other person (e.g. nuclear scientists) say any such thing (even most plastics don't break down that fast!). the first example makes no sense - it's totally uneconomic; any benefit would simply be too slow and any potential advantage is tainted by the question of what to do with the waste (obviously "we" can't just "put it in the titanic"). the second example is daft because even if carbon sequestration into soil is "better" than into trees, trees clearly have many other uses other than as carbon sinks. and afaik, the third claim is simply wrong. i could give other examples but i'm concerned i'm just whingeing :-) the whacko booklet is quite recent but is already out of date, that would be one problem (e.g. no mention of geothermal energy). Just got home from a few days away travelling and the Yeoman's Red Book has arrived - not yet had time to do more then flip through it - saw the coulters you mentioned! Was it the Red Book you received from them? Look forward to looking for their wacky ideas. so yeah, people can be oddball & that's fine, but if they're promoting a system, the whole system has to be consistent & logical on its own terms. Not sure I'd agree with that. Some parts of systems can be good whilst others parts of a system may be totally impractical, not working, a total loon idea etc - depends on the system. But will look at the yeomans in a systems light before saying more. In agricultural terms I think it was new to this country and given that they also export to the US, I think they were certainly there in the earliest of days. If you read the Yeoman's books you'll se what I mean. I know there are at least some chapters available online if not the whole of the first book. Yeomans was the equivalent of the Peter Andrews (of natural sequence farming fame) of his day. mm, but ripping-without-turning was/is entirely promoted in australia by the permies, i thought(?) Yeoman's has been around much longer then permaculture - wouldn't surprise me if the permies got the idea from Yeoman's to beging with. not to put too fine a point on it, the yeomans are pretty obscure. Not in agricultural terms where Yeomans is quite well known. In agri terms, it is the permies who are considered to be tree hugging loons by the more unenlightened agribods. if they stuck to their part (making machinery for those types of ends) without telling everyone to chop down trees and go nuclear & that there's "no point" in anyone saving energy(!), maybe things would be different! (similar to my gripe about the biodynamic set ;-) ZI guess it's like most things in life - we need to take from it the bits we like, experiment with them and themn either tweak them, live with them or abandon them. I actually don't find Costello creepy at all. i find his love affair with those hillsong snots to be very, very creepy and dubious. Yup. But then if you look at politics in its entirety over a long time frame, you'll find that the recent tilt to the right (both religion and in terms of the drys vs the wets) just about all of the would be players are flirting with religion. Not only that but the house is now infested with religious groups who meet for regular prayer fests. Dunno whatever happened to the idea of "representation". If they were truly representative, most of them would be heathens like the rest of us. other than that, and most of his politics and policies, i don't have a problem with him :-) The real problem for many pollies is that they are very differnt in the flesh than they appear on the box or in the 10 second grabs on the radio. He is a very decent human being (with that good sense of humour you mentioned) and I could cope with the Libs being in govt if he was at the helm i'd prefer it, to tell you the truth. i think that moment came last year, was not taken up, & there's going to be a few people sorry that it didn't happen. (except I do have some concerns given that he was the legal eagle involved in the infamous Dollar Sweets court case). He isn't up himself like some. I also like Bronwyn Bishop. Pity she gets such undeserved bad press - she actually has a conscience. i think she's a bitch from hell who also plays the man but not the ball in a humourless evil way, Well from now on, watch her and actually lsiten to what she says. She is not humorous, but she is even handed in whom she gives a serve to and most (but not all in common with all of them) of what she says is worth listening to. She gave a serve to Howard recently on childcare ("he is a man!") and she was quite right again in being even handed about who got what. but then again i rather like amanda vanstone for her forthrightness, which makes people fall off their chairs sometimes when i say that :-) Which says more about them than it does you. Amanda has at least 3 really shitty jobs now that I can recall without even thinking about it, and she has handled them all reasonably well. When she has cleaned up the shit in all of those jobs, Howard has rewarded her by moving her to another shitty job, putting one of his toadies in her place and finally giving her the sack and promoting more toadies. He's not loyal, but then I guess Amamda could expect no more - she's too much of a wet for his very dry tastes. Thanks for the offer but since I've already asked them for it, I'm probably in the system somewhere - I mailed them so I might just have to do as you did and go online if it's not here in a couple of days. have a moan at them about their terrible spelling - it makes them sit up & take notice ;-) Will do when I get to it. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"Chookie" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: Have you used Eden seeds at all? No -- are they less, um, forthright than Clive Blazey? :-)) I suspect so as I've never, ever seen anything from them or about them except for the excellent list of seeds they produce. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... Just got home from a few days away travelling and the Yeoman's Red Book has arrived - not yet had time to do more then flip through it - saw the coulters you mentioned! Was it the Red Book you received from them? Look forward to looking for their wacky ideas. no - the red book is their catalogue, yes? the Wacky Ideas were in a seperate pamphlet (of which i received two). i thought the yeomans would enjoy the idea that i'm using the pamplets in a sheet compost, thus improving my soil g. Yeoman's has been around much longer then permaculture - wouldn't surprise me if the permies got the idea from Yeoman's to beging with. they certainly got their ideas from someone nutty. /runs away from the angry permies now chasing me with torches and pitchforks in fact, my newest digger's catalogue mentions wossisname yeomans. perhaps their day is coming!!!!! Yup. But then if you look at politics in its entirety over a long time frame, you'll find that the recent tilt to the right (both religion and in terms of the drys vs the wets) just about all of the would be players are flirting with religion. Not only that but the house is now infested with religious groups who meet for regular prayer fests. Dunno whatever happened to the idea of "representation". If they were truly representative, most of them would be heathens like the rest of us. amen!! Well from now on, watch her and actually lsiten to what she says. no way man. she frightens me. kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message Was it the Red Book you received from them? Look forward to looking for their wacky ideas. no - the red book is their catalogue, yes? Yes the Wacky Ideas were in a seperate pamphlet (of which i received two). i thought the yeomans would enjoy the idea that i'm using the pamplets in a sheet compost, thus improving my soil g. Didn't get to read their wackie ideas - didn't get the pamphlet. Yeoman's has been around much longer then permaculture - wouldn't surprise me if the permies got the idea from Yeoman's to beging with. they certainly got their ideas from someone nutty. /runs away from the angry permies now chasing me with torches and pitchforks I really can't understand your antipathy to permaculture Otter, much of it works well - in fact ost of the ideas that I've tried have. in fact, my newest digger's catalogue mentions wossisname yeomans. perhaps their day is coming!!!!! Perhaps it's just that the regular gardening world is finally beginning to discover the wider world of agriculture???? Well from now on, watch her and actually lsiten to what she says. no way man. she frightens me. She's actually very charming. Pity it doesn't come through in 10 second grabs. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... I really can't understand your antipathy to permaculture Otter, much of it works well - in fact ost of the ideas that I've tried have. i'm a pest, aren't i :-( much of my bias stems from badly-written books & the fact that the permies who used to live here managed to do so many incomprehensible and badly-thought-out things which i now must undo on my own time. i am aware that my bias is purely a bias. in fact, my newest digger's catalogue mentions wossisname yeomans. perhaps their day is coming!!!!! Perhaps it's just that the regular gardening world is finally beginning to discover the wider world of agriculture???? i actually think that the mass-soil-improvement idea is one whose time has come!! so good on cranky clive for mentioning it and spreading the word. it would go both ways though - agriculturalists could learn a great deal from good gardeners (not me, obviously ;-) She's actually very charming. Pity it doesn't come through in 10 second grabs. i am clearly insensible to whatever charm she has to offer, so i am more than happy to agree to disagree :-) kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message I really can't understand your antipathy to permaculture Otter, much of it works well - in fact ost of the ideas that I've tried have. i'm a pest, aren't i :-( To each his own. But if you were in my garden, I might feel compelled to compost you or kill you by pouring boiling water onto your crown :-)) much of my bias stems from badly-written books & the fact that the permies who used to live here managed to do so many incomprehensible and badly-thought-out things which i now must undo on my own time. Well that is enough to make one totally anti I guess. i am aware that my bias is purely a bias. Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. in fact, my newest digger's catalogue mentions wossisname yeomans. perhaps their day is coming!!!!! Perhaps it's just that the regular gardening world is finally beginning to discover the wider world of agriculture???? i actually think that the mass-soil-improvement idea is one whose time has come!! so good on cranky clive for mentioning it and spreading the word. it would go both ways though - agriculturalists could learn a great deal from good gardeners (not me, obviously ;-) I think the best of both worlds have been taking from each other for millenia, the worst of both worlds don't take anything from anywhere unfortunately. She's actually very charming. Pity it doesn't come through in 10 second grabs. i am clearly insensible to whatever charm she has to offer, so i am more than happy to agree to disagree :-) Well if you do ever get a chance to meet her, take it, as you might be in for a pleasant surprise (but leave your bias at home :-)). |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. edges? i'm happy to snaffle their ideas - i just would want to do it _properly_ instead of going "oh permie me, la la la" and make a big mess for someone else to be mystified by ;-) i am clearly insensible to whatever charm she has to offer, so i am more than happy to agree to disagree :-) Well if you do ever get a chance to meet her, take it, as you might be in for a pleasant surprise (but leave your bias at home :-)). i shall wear my best hat. kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. edges? Yep -- the edge or border between two different ecosystems is a combination of the two ecosystems and therefore has a higher number of species, producing higher yields and with better pest regulation. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
worms! (book recommendation)
In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. edges? i'm happy to snaffle their ideas - i just would want to do it _properly_ instead of going "oh permie me, la la la" and make a big mess for someone else to be mystified by ;-) What have you found mystifying? -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled." Kerry Cue |
worms! (book recommendation)
"Chookie" wrote in message "0tterbot"
wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. edges? Yep -- the edge or border between two different ecosystems is a combination of the two ecosystems and therefore has a higher number of species, producing higher yields and with better pest regulation. Sorry Otterbot, missed this earlier but Chookie has encapsulated it well. That is indeed what edges are about. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... "Chookie" wrote in message "0tterbot" wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. edges? Yep -- the edge or border between two different ecosystems is a combination of the two ecosystems and therefore has a higher number of species, producing higher yields and with better pest regulation. Sorry Otterbot, missed this earlier but Chookie has encapsulated it well. That is indeed what edges are about. thank you. and in what ways do you use it at your place? kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"Chookie" wrote in message
... In article , "0tterbot" wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. edges? i'm happy to snaffle their ideas - i just would want to do it _properly_ instead of going "oh permie me, la la la" and make a big mess for someone else to be mystified by ;-) What have you found mystifying? innumerable things they have done! it's nonsensical. kylie |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message "Chookie" wrote in message "0tterbot" wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. edges? Yep -- the edge or border between two different ecosystems is a combination of the two ecosystems and therefore has a higher number of species, producing higher yields and with better pest regulation. Sorry Otterbot, missed this earlier but Chookie has encapsulated it well. That is indeed what edges are about. thank you. and in what ways do you use it at your place? Sorry but haven't been in here for a while - life got in the way. I use it mostly around the edges of tree/shrub areas to grow things like veg - especially strawbs and other things like parsley and smaller stuff that I want to grow quickly and get a return on. I also use it in the decorative garden in a similar situation. I'll bet you are already using it but haven't taken note that you are doing so. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"0tterbot" wrote in message
... "Chookie" wrote in message ... In article , "0tterbot" wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... Well, perhaps th easiest idea to take from the permie mob is to look at edges and see how that can benefit you. I hadn't appreciated the lush growth of edges till I read something about it in a permie doco of some sort, now I use it all the time. edges? i'm happy to snaffle their ideas - i just would want to do it _properly_ instead of going "oh permie me, la la la" and make a big mess for someone else to be mystified by ;-) What have you found mystifying? innumerable things they have done! it's nonsensical. It isn't, but we aren"t going to convince you of that. I'll bet if Chookie and I came to your place to do am inspection, we'd find lots of permie ideas which you said were your own idea and not gained from any permie doco, they just made sense to you and that's why you did them. |
worms! (book recommendation)
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
... Sorry but haven't been in here for a while - life got in the way. I use it mostly around the edges of tree/shrub areas to grow things like veg - especially strawbs and other things like parsley and smaller stuff that I want to grow quickly and get a return on. I also use it in the decorative garden in a similar situation. I'll bet you are already using it but haven't taken note that you are doing so. maybe - i'm not sure despite thinking hard about it. isn't everything an "edge" to somewhere :-) kylie |
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