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#1
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
"Linda" wrote in message
... I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol, personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone. Linda (Perth) well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-) i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you think of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any bulk organic matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g. mine), so it's certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will never actually _improve_ your soil. in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus needs much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day). kylie |
#2
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Linda" wrote in message I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol, personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone. Linda (Perth) well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-) i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you think of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any bulk organic matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g. mine), so it's certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will never actually _improve_ your soil. in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus needs much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day). So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter? |
#3
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
FarmI wrote:
"0tterbot" wrote in message "Linda" wrote in message I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol, personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone. Linda (Perth) well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-) i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you think of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any bulk organic matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g. mine), so it's certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will never actually _improve_ your soil. in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus needs much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day). So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter? hello Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i could use to get the garden going again. abigail |
#4
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:56:41 +0000, ted wrote:
Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i could use to get the garden going again. What is available? What do you want to grow? How much do you want to spend? How often do you water? |
#5
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
terryc wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:56:41 +0000, ted wrote: Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i could use to get the garden going again. What is available? What do you want to grow? How much do you want to spend? How often do you water? I water every second day but as water is an issue its only a light watering. there are all sorts of palms, Australian natives and what i would class as tropical orchids. The garden was so neglected over a long period of time i just don't know where to start so far its been all trimming and just general tidying up. The soil is sandy and in need of something. As far as cost goes after the move i want to spend as little as possible until i have been in the place a little long and work out exactly what i do want. I would like to at least try and save what is here and then figure it out from there. abigail |
#6
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:32:54 +0000, ted wrote:
terryc wrote: On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:56:41 +0000, ted wrote: Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i could use to get the garden going again. What is available? What do you want to grow? How much do you want to spend? How often do you water? I water every second day but as water is an issue its only a light watering. there are all sorts of palms, Australian natives Well you can stop watering those two. Also, Australian natives do not need poo. Probably too rich and toxic and poison them. Maybe a light dusting annually and what i would class as tropical orchids. My understanding is that these can be fiddly and require specific treatments to get the best out of them. The soil is sandy and in need of something. Look for sawdust(free?), rice husks(sold at some produce) or stable cleaning(mostly shavings, free?) and just use that as mulch. Regularly top it up. Do not work the soil. Alternatively look around for retailed bags of mulch or bales of straw, hay, lucerne, etc. |
#7
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
terryc wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:32:54 +0000, ted wrote: terryc wrote: On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:56:41 +0000, ted wrote: Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i could use to get the garden going again. What is available? What do you want to grow? How much do you want to spend? How often do you water? I water every second day but as water is an issue its only a light watering. there are all sorts of palms, Australian natives Well you can stop watering those two. Also, Australian natives do not need poo. Probably too rich and toxic and poison them. Maybe a light dusting annually and what i would class as tropical orchids. My understanding is that these can be fiddly and require specific treatments to get the best out of them. The soil is sandy and in need of something. Look for sawdust(free?), rice husks(sold at some produce) or stable cleaning(mostly shavings, free?) and just use that as mulch. Regularly top it up. Do not work the soil. Alternatively look around for retailed bags of mulch or bales of straw, hay, lucerne, etc. Thank you for your reply terryc and yes the orchids may be a tad fiddly but will search the net for some info on them as it seems such a shame to get rid of them they are just so lovely. |
#8
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
"ted" wrote in message
Others have given good advice so I'll just chip in a bit that occurs to me. I water every second day but as water is an issue its only a light watering. Forget light watering. Either water once or perhaps twice a week (if you must) and do a deep watering. Light watering brings the roots to the surface and that is self defeating. If you have to do so, select which plants you must keep and only water them and let the rest of the garden go. Most of us here have had to make those sorts of choices at some time or other. And before you water, stuff your finger down into the soil and if it's dry at about 4 inches, then water. |
#9
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
ted wrote:
FarmI wrote: "0tterbot" wrote in message "Linda" wrote in message I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol, personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone. Linda (Perth) well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-) i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you think of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any bulk organic matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g. mine), so it's certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will never actually _improve_ your soil. in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus needs much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day). So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter? hello Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i could use to get the garden going again. abigail adjusts robe and mortarboard Poo falls into three categories depending on origin: - carnivores (dogs, cats, people) not very useful, risky - birds (chooks, turkeys, pigeons, rabbits* etc) much nutrient with some bulk - herbivorous animals (cows, horses, elephants, alpacas etc) much organic bulk with some nutrients The best strategy is to choose the combination sourced from the second and third categories that is cheap and readily available where you are that suits the needs of your soil. Initially if the garden is run down you will probably need some from both categories. It is just as important to improve the texture and organic content as it is the nutrient levels. Apply bird sparingly (especially if it is fresh) and herbivore liberally. David *The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird composition than it is to the big herbivores. |
#10
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
... adjusts robe and mortarboard Poo falls into three categories depending on origin: - carnivores (dogs, cats, people) not very useful, risky - birds (chooks, turkeys, pigeons, rabbits* etc) much nutrient with some bulk - herbivorous animals (cows, horses, elephants, alpacas etc) much organic bulk with some nutrients The best strategy is to choose the combination sourced from the second and third categories that is cheap and readily available where you are that suits the needs of your soil. Initially if the garden is run down you will probably need some from both categories. It is just as important to improve the texture and organic content as it is the nutrient levels. Apply bird sparingly (especially if it is fresh) and herbivore liberally. David *The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird composition than it is to the big herbivores. i _would_ say, though, that carnivore poo is just as good as any other poo after composting! it's just the nature of poo - it's meant to be out there. worms in worm farms will eat carnivore poo (not too much at a time though). people-poo from composting toilets, once composted. etc etc etc. we're a bit precious about carnivore poo but it certainly has its place - you just don't want to be using it fresh and all piled together - you would manage it to get the best from it, like other poo :-) having said that, i agree wholeheartedly with david here for general poo advice. g kylie |
#11
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
0tterbot wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... adjusts robe and mortarboard Poo falls into three categories depending on origin: - carnivores (dogs, cats, people) not very useful, risky - birds (chooks, turkeys, pigeons, rabbits* etc) much nutrient with some bulk - herbivorous animals (cows, horses, elephants, alpacas etc) much organic bulk with some nutrients The best strategy is to choose the combination sourced from the second and third categories that is cheap and readily available where you are that suits the needs of your soil. Initially if the garden is run down you will probably need some from both categories. It is just as important to improve the texture and organic content as it is the nutrient levels. Apply bird sparingly (especially if it is fresh) and herbivore liberally. David *The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird composition than it is to the big herbivores. i _would_ say, though, that carnivore poo is just as good as any other poo after composting! it's just the nature of poo - it's meant to be out there. After treatment it's all good. All of ours goes on to the windbreak after processing. I am not one to say the cat's tray cannot go into the compost. However you are unlikely to have access to much carnivore manure that is safe enough to handle in quantity unless it has been processed in some way. I advise against it not because of shock-horror (although cat's trays are a test to the stomach of anybody) but because it is an impractical. worms in worm farms will eat carnivore poo (not too much at a time though). people-poo from composting toilets, once composted. etc etc etc. we're a bit precious about carnivore poo but it certainly has its place - you just don't want to be using it fresh and all piled together - you would manage it to get the best from it, like other poo :-) Rabbits are not the only animal to do re-processing ;-) having said that, i agree wholeheartedly with david here for general poo advice. g kylie Since I was wearing my silly hat you had better believe it. D |
#12
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:17:35 +1100, David Hare-Scott wrote:
*The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird composition than it is to the big herbivores. Do your rabbits have chronic diareahhea (spX)? Then they are very sick. you do feed them dry grass, etc? All the bunny poo I've ever seen has been hard pellets of fibrous matter. Not surprising since it goes through twice. Suppossed to be great for roses (or so all the book on bunny keeping claim). |
#13
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
terryc wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:17:35 +1100, David Hare-Scott wrote: *The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird composition than it is to the big herbivores. Do your rabbits have chronic diareahhea (spX)? Then they are very sick. you do feed them dry grass, etc? I have no rabbits. The Removalist took them all. Suits me fine. All the bunny poo I've ever seen has been hard pellets of fibrous matter. Not surprising since it goes through twice. Suppossed to be great for roses (or so all the book on bunny keeping claim). Sweeping it up from the pasture is just _too_ tedious to be practical. I am told if you can get it from a bunny farm it is excellent fertiliser. David |
#14
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au... "0tterbot" wrote in message "Linda" wrote in message I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol, personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone. Linda (Perth) well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-) i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you think of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any bulk organic matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g. mine), so it's certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will never actually _improve_ your soil. in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus needs much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day). So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter? well, i've been mulching like a ******* & i'm getting there (slowly!) :-) i REALLY like horse poo. i think it's a good mulch as well as the fact it breaks down & goes in pretty rapidly (which is tiresome to reapply, of course, but that is the point!) i've been waiting on another trailer load from the stables but it hasn't appeared yet (monsieur has been busy). and as an aside, i like to mix it in with potting mix for pots, too, i reckon it makes the potting mix so much more moist & well-structured. i use the poo-and-straw mix from the chooks as much as possible - limited to some degree by my laziness & quantity of poo available from only 10 birds. ideally, i compost it in a nice moist pile, regularly turned, for a while first, but i also just dump it on empty beds to age & break down by itself, & i will also dump it between plants, trying to avoid the root zone as it's pretty fresh. i know one is not supposed to do that, but i do, and i've not had anything die from doing that (that i could identify). we also use leaves (collected from town in autumn as a rule - we haven't many deciduous trees & quite frankly they can use their own leaves - _i'm_ not going to collect them to put elsewhere!) i've been known to organise grass clippings & so forth, but as i said, one of my big battles is against my own laziness :-) i no longer have neighbours who mow the grass & collect all the clippings in a pile & give it to us, so that's an option lost to me now. (bizarre garden behaviour on their part, but it was very handy for me!) when something needs mulching but there's no poo to be had, i just use straw. again, it breaks down quickly. i wish i could justify the expense of hay or pea straw, because i'm sure it would really help, but i can't really g, so ordinary straw just has to do at this point. because i tend to mulch fairly thinly & all year around, i just spread the available substance amongst whatever needs mulching. have a few BIG beds for veggies down the back where i've been using newspaper held down with either straw mix, or just with boards, to keep the weeds out basically & supply a bit of nutrition while waiting. (i try to remember with this to spread some blood & bone first). done properly, this is a really good method to keep a space organised while it's empty for a long time. done not-quite-properly, you can get newspaper blowing _everywhere_ when it's windy!! that doesn't bother me but it's best not to have to do soemthing all over again, i reckon. (i have some failed newspaper areas i have to do again, which is bothering me atm ;-) this is also good for a bed which has spaced-apart items in it - the spaces are covered by newspaper, & the whole lot mulched over with straw mix or whatever else is available. it's not so good for planting things through, it's best done afterwards i reckon. i would really like a constant supply of large-herbivore poo on the premises, but i'm not getting any large herbivores any time soon. maybe one day. :-) compost has been something of a disappointment to me so far - we just can't seem to get both quality & quantity. we use compostibles from a cafe, so there's quite a bit, but it takes a long time to get anything at all. mainly we have tended so far to use it when still lumpy, more as a mulch than mixed in. so i feel i can't really comment about compost in this context. i feel fairly sure that we haven't enough nitrogenous materials in it, as we give spare greens to the chooks, mostly. it's up to dh to do as i gave that job to him, & he's struggling with it a bit (lack of time, knowledge & inclination). might have to start adding in chook poo or soemthing to get it going better, & it would be good to be adding in grass clippings or something. and sadly, my comfrey seems to have died (!) that pretty much sums up my mulching behaviour (and wasn't it long?!!). does anyone have any other thoughts? kylie |
#15
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Is there anything better than Blood and Bone?
"0tterbot" wrote in message news:hO8Cm.48153
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter? well, i've been mulching like a ******* & i'm getting there (slowly!) :-) i REALLY like horse poo. Nectar of the Gods. But only another gardener would understand that. i think it's a good mulch as well as the fact it breaks down & goes in pretty rapidly (which is tiresome to reapply, of course, but that is the point!) i've been waiting on another trailer load from the stables but it hasn't appeared yet (monsieur has been busy). and as an aside, i like to mix it in with potting mix for pots, too, i reckon it makes the potting mix so much more moist & well-structured. i use the poo-and-straw mix from the chooks as much as possible - limited to some degree by my laziness & quantity of poo available from only 10 birds. ideally, i compost it in a nice moist pile, regularly turned, for a while first, but i also just dump it on empty beds to age & break down by itself, & i will also dump it between plants, trying to avoid the root zone as it's pretty fresh. i know one is not supposed to do that, but i do, and i've not had anything die from doing that (that i could identify). :-)) I think that the old adage of chook poop being too hot is something that only unexperienced gardeners and/or those without chooks believe. Unless one has a garden the size of postage stamp, there is always somewhere that fresh chook poop can be spread. My attitude to all manure is to spread it and then at least the nutrients can go into the ground and/or the soil biota can start to do its business on it/with it. we also use leaves (collected from town in autumn as a rule - we haven't many deciduous trees & quite frankly they can use their own leaves - _i'm_ not going to collect them to put elsewhere!) i've been known to organise grass clippings & so forth, but as i said, one of my big battles is against my own laziness :-) i no longer have neighbours who mow the grass & collect all the clippings in a pile & give it to us, so that's an option lost to me now. (bizarre garden behaviour on their part, but it was very handy for me!) Well most of us have to fight that idleness bug at some time or other. I tend to be rather cyclical in my habits. I'll work like a demon for weeks and then take days off when I know I should be full steam ahead. when something needs mulching but there's no poo to be had, i just use straw. again, it breaks down quickly. i wish i could justify the expense of hay or pea straw, because i'm sure it would really help, but i can't really g, so ordinary straw just has to do at this point. because i tend to mulch fairly thinly & all year around, i just spread the available substance amongst whatever needs mulching. Last year Himself bought about 10 bales of hay and edged a sloping spud patch with it on the two lower sides. He then bought a load of loam mixed with turkey poop and filled it so it was level. We had a superb crop of spuds but TMWOT, the best thing was the hay. this year it's the most superb muclhing material and I'm gradually dragging it out a bale at a time as I need muclh and replacing it with a new bale. did you know that hay spread straight from a bale can be a bit toxic? One superb little local gardening book I have says to buy hay and then leave it to go off by just letting it lie around on the soil and then every few months to turn it - makes sense to me after seeing the quality of Himself's spud bales. have a few BIG beds for veggies down the back where i've been using newspaper held down with either straw mix, or just with boards, to keep the weeds out basically & supply a bit of nutrition while waiting. (i try to remember with this to spread some blood & bone first). done properly, this is a really good method to keep a space organised while it's empty for a long time. done not-quite-properly, you can get newspaper blowing _everywhere_ when it's windy!! that doesn't bother me but it's best not to have to do soemthing all over again, i reckon. (i have some failed newspaper areas i have to do again, which is bothering me atm ;-) this is also good for a bed which has spaced-apart items in it - the spaces are covered by newspaper, & the whole lot mulched over with straw mix or whatever else is available. it's not so good for planting things through, it's best done afterwards i reckon. Yup. I have done that in a number of places so I know what you mean. i would really like a constant supply of large-herbivore poo on the premises, but i'm not getting any large herbivores any time soon. maybe one day. :-) I have a load of horse poo waiting for me to collect from the neighbours ATM. I did my Lady Bountiful routine with a neighbour a couple of weeks ago filling up polystyrene containers with any plant she fancied so she went home and started putting together a pile of poo for me. They'd been spreading it on the paddocks and I hadn't had any from her for ages :-(( Not that I really needed any over winter. I'd spread so much of it on beds in autumn that it was just quietly sitting there doing it's thing. compost has been something of a disappointment to me so far - we just can't seem to get both quality & quantity. we use compostibles from a cafe, so there's quite a bit, but it takes a long time to get anything at all. mainly we have tended so far to use it when still lumpy, more as a mulch than mixed in. so i feel i can't really comment about compost in this context. i feel fairly sure that we haven't enough nitrogenous materials in it, as we give spare greens to the chooks, mostly. Could you buy a bale of wood shaving, spread it in the chook yard and then toss the whole lot of the restaurant gleanings to the chooks and let them do the work? That way you've got carbon (wood shavings), nitrogen (chook poop) and cheap chook food. Or perhaps a bathtub sized worm farm or two? it's up to dh to do as i gave that job to him, & he's struggling with it a bit (lack of time, knowledge & inclination). might have to start adding in chook poo or soemthing to get it going better, & it would be good to be adding in grass clippings or something. and sadly, my comfrey seems to have died (!) so has mine - or at least it hasn't yet shown it's head so I'm still considering ti gone at this stage. that pretty much sums up my mulching behaviour (and wasn't it long?!!). does anyone have any other thoughts? As usual, an interesting read. |
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