"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Linda" wrote in message

I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol,
personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone.

Linda (Perth)

well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-)

i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you think
of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any bulk organic
matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g. mine), so it's
certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will never actually _improve_
your soil.

in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus needs
much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day).

So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter?

FarmI wrote:
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Linda" wrote in message

I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol,
personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone.

Linda (Perth)
well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-)

i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you think
of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any bulk organic
matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g. mine), so it's
certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will never actually _improve_
your soil.

in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus needs
much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day).

So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter?


hello

Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now
have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking
well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i
could use to get the garden going again.

abigail

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:56:41 +0000, ted wrote:

Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now
have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking
well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i
could use to get the garden going again.

What is available?
What do you want to grow?
How much do you want to spend?
How often do you water?

terryc wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:56:41 +0000, ted wrote:

Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now
have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic looking
well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the best poo i
could use to get the garden going again.

What is available?
What do you want to grow?
How much do you want to spend?
How often do you water?

I water every second day but as water is an issue its only a light
watering. there are all sorts of palms, Australian natives and what i
would class as tropical orchids. The garden was so neglected over a
long period of time i just don't know where to start so far its been all
trimming and just general tidying up. The soil is sandy and in need of
something. As far as cost goes after the move i want to spend as
little as possible until i have been in the place a little long and work
out exactly what i do want. I would like to at least try and save what
is here and then figure it out from there.

abigail

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:32:54 +0000, ted wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:56:41 +0000, ted wrote:

Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now
have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic
looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the
best poo i could use to get the garden going again.

What is available?
What do you want to grow?
How much do you want to spend?
How often do you water?

I water every second day but as water is an issue its only a light
watering. there are all sorts of palms, Australian natives

Well you can stop watering those two.
Also, Australian natives do not need poo. Probably too rich and toxic and
poison them. Maybe a light dusting annually

and what i would class as tropical orchids.

My understanding is that these can be fiddly and require specific
treatments to get the best out of them.


The soil is sandy and in need of something.

Look for sawdust(free?), rice husks(sold at some produce) or stable
cleaning(mostly shavings, free?) and just use that as mulch. Regularly
top it up. Do not work the soil. Alternatively look around for retailed
bags of mulch or bales of straw, hay, lucerne, etc.

terryc wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:32:54 +0000, ted wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:56:41 +0000, ted wrote:

Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now
have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic
looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the
best poo i could use to get the garden going again.
What is available?
What do you want to grow?
How much do you want to spend?
How often do you water?
I water every second day but as water is an issue its only a light
watering. there are all sorts of palms, Australian natives

Well you can stop watering those two.
Also, Australian natives do not need poo. Probably too rich and toxic and
poison them. Maybe a light dusting annually

and what i would class as tropical orchids.

My understanding is that these can be fiddly and require specific
treatments to get the best out of them.


The soil is sandy and in need of something.

Look for sawdust(free?), rice husks(sold at some produce) or stable
cleaning(mostly shavings, free?) and just use that as mulch. Regularly
top it up. Do not work the soil. Alternatively look around for retailed
bags of mulch or bales of straw, hay, lucerne, etc.

Thank you for your reply terryc and yes the orchids may be a tad fiddly
but will search the net for some info on them as it seems such a shame
to get rid of them they are just so lovely.

"ted" wrote in message

Others have given good advice so I'll just chip in a bit that occurs to me.

I water every second day but as water is an issue its only a light
watering.

Forget light watering. Either water once or perhaps twice a week (if you
must) and do a deep watering. Light watering brings the roots to the
surface and that is self defeating. If you have to do so, select which
plants you must keep and only water them and let the rest of the garden go.
Most of us here have had to make those sorts of choices at some time or
other.

And before you water, stuff your finger down into the soil and if it's dry
at about 4 inches, then water.

ted wrote:
FarmI wrote:
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Linda" wrote in message

I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol,
personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone.

Linda (Perth)
well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-)

i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you
think of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any
bulk organic matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g.
mine), so it's certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will
never actually _improve_ your soil.

in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus
needs much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day).

So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter?


hello

Ok all you poo specialists i have just moved to a warm climate and now
have a garden that looks like a jungle the plants are so exotic
looking well they would be if they were not almost dead what is the
best poo i could use to get the garden going again.

abigail

adjusts robe and mortarboard

Poo falls into three categories depending on origin:

- carnivores (dogs, cats, people) not very useful, risky
- birds (chooks, turkeys, pigeons, rabbits* etc) much nutrient with some
bulk
- herbivorous animals (cows, horses, elephants, alpacas etc) much organic
bulk with some nutrients

The best strategy is to choose the combination sourced from the second and
third categories that is cheap and readily available where you are that
suits the needs of your soil. Initially if the garden is run down you will
probably need some from both categories. It is just as important to improve
the texture and organic content as it is the nutrient levels. Apply bird
sparingly (especially if it is fresh) and herbivore liberally.


David

*The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird
composition than it is to the big herbivores.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

adjusts robe and mortarboard

Poo falls into three categories depending on origin:

- carnivores (dogs, cats, people) not very useful, risky
- birds (chooks, turkeys, pigeons, rabbits* etc) much nutrient with some
bulk
- herbivorous animals (cows, horses, elephants, alpacas etc) much organic
bulk with some nutrients

The best strategy is to choose the combination sourced from the second and
third categories that is cheap and readily available where you are that
suits the needs of your soil. Initially if the garden is run down you
will
probably need some from both categories. It is just as important to
improve
the texture and organic content as it is the nutrient levels. Apply bird
sparingly (especially if it is fresh) and herbivore liberally.


David

*The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird
composition than it is to the big herbivores.

i _would_ say, though, that carnivore poo is just as good as any other poo
after composting! it's just the nature of poo - it's meant to be out there.

worms in worm farms will eat carnivore poo (not too much at a time though).
people-poo from composting toilets, once composted. etc etc etc. we're a bit
precious about carnivore poo but it certainly has its place - you just don't
want to be using it fresh and all piled together - you would manage it to
get the best from it, like other poo :-)

having said that, i agree wholeheartedly with david here for general poo
advice. g
kylie

0tterbot wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

adjusts robe and mortarboard

Poo falls into three categories depending on origin:

- carnivores (dogs, cats, people) not very useful, risky
- birds (chooks, turkeys, pigeons, rabbits* etc) much nutrient with
some bulk
- herbivorous animals (cows, horses, elephants, alpacas etc) much
organic bulk with some nutrients

The best strategy is to choose the combination sourced from the
second and third categories that is cheap and readily available
where you are that suits the needs of your soil. Initially if the
garden is run down you will
probably need some from both categories. It is just as important to
improve
the texture and organic content as it is the nutrient levels. Apply
bird sparingly (especially if it is fresh) and herbivore liberally.


David

*The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird
composition than it is to the big herbivores.

i _would_ say, though, that carnivore poo is just as good as any
other poo after composting! it's just the nature of poo - it's meant
to be out there.

After treatment it's all good. All of ours goes on to the windbreak after
processing. I am not one to say the cat's tray cannot go into the compost.
However you are unlikely to have access to much carnivore manure that is
safe enough to handle in quantity unless it has been processed in some way.
I advise against it not because of shock-horror (although cat's trays are a
test to the stomach of anybody) but because it is an impractical.

worms in worm farms will eat carnivore poo (not too much at a time
though). people-poo from composting toilets, once composted. etc etc
etc. we're a bit precious about carnivore poo but it certainly has
its place - you just don't want to be using it fresh and all piled
together - you would manage it to get the best from it, like other
poo :-)

Rabbits are not the only animal to do re-processing ;-)


having said that, i agree wholeheartedly with david here for general
poo advice. g
kylie

Since I was wearing my silly hat you had better believe it.

D

On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:17:35 +1100, David Hare-Scott wrote:


*The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird
composition than it is to the big herbivores.

Do your rabbits have chronic diareahhea (spX)?
Then they are very sick. you do feed them dry grass, etc?

All the bunny poo I've ever seen has been hard pellets of fibrous matter.
Not surprising since it goes through twice. Suppossed to be great for
roses (or so all the book on bunny keeping claim).

terryc wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:17:35 +1100, David Hare-Scott wrote:


*The rabbits round here don't fly but their manure is nearer to bird
composition than it is to the big herbivores.

Do your rabbits have chronic diareahhea (spX)?
Then they are very sick. you do feed them dry grass, etc?

I have no rabbits. The Removalist took them all. Suits me fine.


All the bunny poo I've ever seen has been hard pellets of fibrous
matter. Not surprising since it goes through twice. Suppossed to be
great for roses (or so all the book on bunny keeping claim).

Sweeping it up from the pasture is just _too_ tedious to be practical. I am
told if you can get it from a bunny farm it is excellent fertiliser.

David

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Linda" wrote in message

I know some swear by chook poo, some seasol,
personally I can't find anything better than blood and bone.

Linda (Perth)

well, i don't know, because it all depends! :-)

i like blood & bone because you can just throw some around when you think
of it, in a not-a-hassle type of way. but, it won't add any bulk organic
matter to the soil if one's soil lacks humus (e.g. mine), so it's
certainly not the Answer To Everything - it will never actually _improve_
your soil.

in terms of fertilising in general, good soil with lots of humus needs
much less of that, which is where i'd like to be. (one day).

So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter?

well, i've been mulching like a ******* & i'm getting there (slowly!) :-)

i REALLY like horse poo. i think it's a good mulch as well as the fact it
breaks down & goes in pretty rapidly (which is tiresome to reapply, of
course, but that is the point!) i've been waiting on another trailer load
from the stables but it hasn't appeared yet (monsieur has been busy). and as
an aside, i like to mix it in with potting mix for pots, too, i reckon it
makes the potting mix so much more moist & well-structured.

i use the poo-and-straw mix from the chooks as much as possible - limited to
some degree by my laziness & quantity of poo available from only 10 birds.
ideally, i compost it in a nice moist pile, regularly turned, for a while
first, but i also just dump it on empty beds to age & break down by itself,
& i will also dump it between plants, trying to avoid the root zone as it's
pretty fresh. i know one is not supposed to do that, but i do, and i've not
had anything die from doing that (that i could identify).

we also use leaves (collected from town in autumn as a rule - we haven't
many deciduous trees & quite frankly they can use their own leaves - _i'm_
not going to collect them to put elsewhere!) i've been known to organise
grass clippings & so forth, but as i said, one of my big battles is against
my own laziness :-) i no longer have neighbours who mow the grass & collect
all the clippings in a pile & give it to us, so that's an option lost to me
now. (bizarre garden behaviour on their part, but it was very handy for me!)

when something needs mulching but there's no poo to be had, i just use
straw. again, it breaks down quickly. i wish i could justify the expense of
hay or pea straw, because i'm sure it would really help, but i can't really
g, so ordinary straw just has to do at this point. because i tend to mulch
fairly thinly & all year around, i just spread the available substance
amongst whatever needs mulching.

have a few BIG beds for veggies down the back where i've been using
newspaper held down with either straw mix, or just with boards, to keep the
weeds out basically & supply a bit of nutrition while waiting. (i try to
remember with this to spread some blood & bone first). done properly, this
is a really good method to keep a space organised while it's empty for a
long time. done not-quite-properly, you can get newspaper blowing
_everywhere_ when it's windy!! that doesn't bother me but it's best not to
have to do soemthing all over again, i reckon. (i have some failed newspaper
areas i have to do again, which is bothering me atm ;-) this is also good
for a bed which has spaced-apart items in it - the spaces are covered by
newspaper, & the whole lot mulched over with straw mix or whatever else is
available. it's not so good for planting things through, it's best done
afterwards i reckon.

i would really like a constant supply of large-herbivore poo on the
premises, but i'm not getting any large herbivores any time soon. maybe one
day. :-)

compost has been something of a disappointment to me so far - we just can't
seem to get both quality & quantity. we use compostibles from a cafe, so
there's quite a bit, but it takes a long time to get anything at all. mainly
we have tended so far to use it when still lumpy, more as a mulch than mixed
in. so i feel i can't really comment about compost in this context. i feel
fairly sure that we haven't enough nitrogenous materials in it, as we give
spare greens to the chooks, mostly. it's up to dh to do as i gave that job
to him, & he's struggling with it a bit (lack of time, knowledge &
inclination). might have to start adding in chook poo or soemthing to get it
going better, & it would be good to be adding in grass clippings or
something. and sadly, my comfrey seems to have died (!)

that pretty much sums up my mulching behaviour (and wasn't it long?!!). does
anyone have any other thoughts?
kylie

"0tterbot" wrote in message news:hO8Cm.48153
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message

So what are you doing to increase your humus level Otter?

well, i've been mulching like a ******* & i'm getting there (slowly!) :-)

i REALLY like horse poo.

Nectar of the Gods. But only another gardener would understand that.

i think it's a good mulch as well as the fact it
breaks down & goes in pretty rapidly (which is tiresome to reapply, of
course, but that is the point!) i've been waiting on another trailer load
from the stables but it hasn't appeared yet (monsieur has been busy). and
as an aside, i like to mix it in with potting mix for pots, too, i reckon
it makes the potting mix so much more moist & well-structured.

i use the poo-and-straw mix from the chooks as much as possible - limited
to some degree by my laziness & quantity of poo available from only 10
birds. ideally, i compost it in a nice moist pile, regularly turned, for a
while first, but i also just dump it on empty beds to age & break down by
itself, & i will also dump it between plants, trying to avoid the root
zone as it's pretty fresh. i know one is not supposed to do that, but i
do, and i've not had anything die from doing that (that i could identify).

:-)) I think that the old adage of chook poop being too hot is something
that only unexperienced gardeners and/or those without chooks believe.

Unless one has a garden the size of postage stamp, there is always somewhere
that fresh chook poop can be spread. My attitude to all manure is to spread
it and then at least the nutrients can go into the ground and/or the soil
biota can start to do its business on it/with it.

we also use leaves (collected from town in autumn as a rule - we haven't
many deciduous trees & quite frankly they can use their own leaves - _i'm_
not going to collect them to put elsewhere!) i've been known to organise
grass clippings & so forth, but as i said, one of my big battles is
against my own laziness :-) i no longer have neighbours who mow the grass
& collect all the clippings in a pile & give it to us, so that's an option
lost to me now. (bizarre garden behaviour on their part, but it was very
handy for me!)

Well most of us have to fight that idleness bug at some time or other. I
tend to be rather cyclical in my habits. I'll work like a demon for weeks
and then take days off when I know I should be full steam ahead.

when something needs mulching but there's no poo to be had, i just use
straw. again, it breaks down quickly. i wish i could justify the expense
of hay or pea straw, because i'm sure it would really help, but i can't
really g, so ordinary straw just has to do at this point. because i tend
to mulch fairly thinly & all year around, i just spread the available
substance amongst whatever needs mulching.

Last year Himself bought about 10 bales of hay and edged a sloping spud
patch with it on the two lower sides. He then bought a load of loam mixed
with turkey poop and filled it so it was level. We had a superb crop of
spuds but TMWOT, the best thing was the hay. this year it's the most superb
muclhing material and I'm gradually dragging it out a bale at a time as I
need muclh and replacing it with a new bale.

did you know that hay spread straight from a bale can be a bit toxic? One
superb little local gardening book I have says to buy hay and then leave it
to go off by just letting it lie around on the soil and then every few
months to turn it - makes sense to me after seeing the quality of Himself's
spud bales.

have a few BIG beds for veggies down the back where i've been using
newspaper held down with either straw mix, or just with boards, to keep
the weeds out basically & supply a bit of nutrition while waiting. (i
try to remember with this to spread some blood & bone first). done
properly, this is a really good method to keep a space organised while
it's empty for a long time. done not-quite-properly, you can get newspaper
blowing _everywhere_ when it's windy!! that doesn't bother me but it's
best not to have to do soemthing all over again, i reckon. (i have some
failed newspaper areas i have to do again, which is bothering me atm ;-)
this is also good for a bed which has spaced-apart items in it - the
spaces are covered by newspaper, & the whole lot mulched over with straw
mix or whatever else is available. it's not so good for planting things
through, it's best done afterwards i reckon.

Yup. I have done that in a number of places so I know what you mean.

i would really like a constant supply of large-herbivore poo on the
premises, but i'm not getting any large herbivores any time soon. maybe
one day. :-)

I have a load of horse poo waiting for me to collect from the neighbours
ATM. I did my Lady Bountiful routine with a neighbour a couple of weeks ago
filling up polystyrene containers with any plant she fancied so she went
home and started putting together a pile of poo for me. They'd been
spreading it on the paddocks and I hadn't had any from her for ages :-(( Not
that I really needed any over winter. I'd spread so much of it on beds in
autumn that it was just quietly sitting there doing it's thing.

compost has been something of a disappointment to me so far - we just
can't seem to get both quality & quantity. we use compostibles from a
cafe, so there's quite a bit, but it takes a long time to get anything at
all. mainly we have tended so far to use it when still lumpy, more as a
mulch than mixed in. so i feel i can't really comment about compost in
this context. i feel fairly sure that we haven't enough nitrogenous
materials in it, as we give spare greens to the chooks, mostly.

Could you buy a bale of wood shaving, spread it in the chook yard and then
toss the whole lot of the restaurant gleanings to the chooks and let them do
the work? That way you've got carbon (wood shavings), nitrogen (chook poop)
and cheap chook food. Or perhaps a bathtub sized worm farm or two?

it's up to dh to do as i gave that job
to him, & he's struggling with it a bit (lack of time, knowledge &
inclination). might have to start adding in chook poo or soemthing to get
it going better, & it would be good to be adding in grass clippings or
something. and sadly, my comfrey seems to have died (!)

so has mine - or at least it hasn't yet shown it's head so I'm still
considering ti gone at this stage.

that pretty much sums up my mulching behaviour (and wasn't it long?!!).
does anyone have any other thoughts?

As usual, an interesting read.

IME, horse poo really *is* the nectar of the gods! It breaks down
easily, is easy to handle, is moderately available (there's always a
pony club or horse-mad teenager somewhere nearby) and, best of all, it
doesn't smell too bad.

In years gone by, I was able to use the shovellings from our own stables
(wood-shavings with poo) and that's the best fertiliser/mulch combo I've
ever struck. Did no end of good to me roses as well as the few veggies I
was growing at the time. I dislike cow-poo for purely subjective
reasons: it smells bad (to my nose, anyway) and it behaves like
ready-mix concrete, forming nasty little tam o'shanters on hitting the
ground and then crusting over to fool you into believing it's safe to
pick up in your hands. Hah! Forget cow-poo!

I wouldn't use carnivore-poo, simply because I'm aware of the nasty
parasites that can live in it (much worse, IMHO, than those occuring in
herbivore-poo). Of course, the fact that my dog and cat both enjoy
leaving gratuitous deposits on my rose garden doesn't fill my heart with
song, but there y'go: y'can't win 'em all.

Something deep in my soul balks at using hay for mulch. The fact that
some poor, starving animal could be surviving on it stops me from
spreading it over my soil. Instead, I've recently graduated to using
sugar-cane mulch and it's reasonably OK. It plays merry-harry with me
asthma (dust), but it's doing a pretty good job of preserving soil
moisture for me, so it'll do for now. I've used straw and it's OK too,
but breaks down surprisingly quickly. I've often thought it'd be great
to be able to whack it through a chaff-cutter and make it a bit more
friable, IYKWIM.

--
Trish Brown {|:-}

Newcastle, NSW, Australia