Mootilda was Arguments
 

FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Mootilda the cow is settling in well. She and the horses have
reached a negotiated settlement. I can now get up to her and touch
her without any problem, I know it is just cupboard love because as
soon as it is clear that I have no food for her she wanders off but
it is s good sign that she is not totally afaid of getting near
people. I now have to build some yards and bails so that she can
have a visit from the lady with the syringe.

You asked some time ago about keeping Mootilda healthy and at the time
although I answered, I wasn't really focussed. I've thought about it
since and I'd advise 5 in 1 for a few years (unless you know her
status, in which case, if she's had a few years of shots don't bother
overly - all her calves religiously), lice control and if you get
liver fluke in your area, once a year application of flukacide.

Thanks.

Are you saying that after a few years of treatment cattle gain permanent
immunity to the five diseases?

Are cattle lice evident to the normal eye?

I will have to ask the local cattlepersons about the liver fluke although a
number work on a kind of Darwininian principle (survival of the strongest)
and do little to manage their herd, so I am not sure if they would know. I
am constantly amazed at the wide variation in pasture and herd management
practices, from careful and systematic to the complete laissez faire, just
burn the grass in spring and ship the bigger steers to market. I corrected
a typo here but some of the seers should be shipped out too. Nevertheless
they are all "experts".

David

Arguments
 

"Trish Brown" wrote in message
...
Can't we all just say 'infinity' and let it go?

Continually feeding these pointless conversations is drowning the ng in
fresh, steaming, *unrotted* manure.

Y'know, you don't *have* to respond when someone posts something that
disagrees with you. Just let it go and we'll all feel better.

that's certainly almost always true - however, factual corrections are a
different situation. _all_ seedlings really _do_ go better with mulch :-D
hee hee.

My garden is drooping at the moment. Well, we're watering, but the lawn is
overgrown and the beds need a bit of weeding and extra mulch. It's been so
hot and humid, no one feels like getting out and doing the usual
maintenance. We keep telling each other 'Tomorrow, when it's cooler...',
but it never seems to be cool enough!

did you get the Mighty Rain at your place? i do hope so. we got it & it's
made a transformative difference already. 2 weeks ago my garden was all
struggle, but now things are going again. it's wonderful!!

The watermelon has covered everything
and we have a glut of melons which is getting more and more worrying. The
family and neighbours are heartily sick of me asking 'Would you like
another melon?' Not only that, but the butternut pumpkin has met up with
and conjoined itself to the melon vine. There are umpteen little yellow
pear-shaped pumpkins growing among the many melons and I'm visualising
pots and pots of pumpkin soup and a plethora of pumpkin pies - oh dear!

i have heard (but, now having my 2nd consecutive year of Near-Total
Curcurbit Failure *, have not had opportunity to test yet) that if you want
to store melons & pumpkins for as long as you can, the mid-season fruits
store much better than the last ones.

not all pumpkins & melons store for long anyway of course, but if you want
to hold on to some for a few months, you might want to put them away now, &
then you can harrass & provoke everyone you know with your later offerings
in a month or two!!
kylie

* this really can happen, trust me.

Arguments
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...

did you get the Mighty Rain at your place? i do hope so. we got it & it's
made a transformative difference already. 2 weeks ago my garden was all
struggle, but now things are going again. it's wonderful!!

Congratulations! I know just how you feel. It couldn't have come at a
better time for giving us an Autumn break - so nice to know we should now
have enough grass to get the girls through the winter.

i have heard (but, now having my 2nd consecutive year of Near-Total
Curcurbit Failure *, (snip) * this really can happen, trust me.

I can't understand this at all because it seems to be such a rarity to
manage to have such a failure. It has me fascinated.

Have you tried adding tspn of Trace elements to the area where you're trying
to grow them just in case you have a problem? (Although I realise that
could also compound a problem if you have too much of 'X' - but your soil
would be classified on the light side in terms of overall fertility I would
think.
I try to remember to add a tspn once a year but know I'm sloppy about it.
I'm better about giving it to my roses as that is part of my routine of
looking after them in spring. I can't remember the last time the veg beds a
dose and I'll bet my bottom dollar that my garden notebook has nothing to
say on the subject either - yet another thing I should be more religious
about.

Arguments
 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:41:17 +1100, Trish Brown wrote:

[...]
The mozzies are back in abundance. #$%^. ZzzzzzZZZZ!...zzzzZZZ! :/

You're not wrong the we've got tiny little black ones that always
seem to bite where you can't reach 'em. I don't s'pose you'd get Hexham
Greys out where you are? We live about a block away from the edge of
Hexham Swamp and so we get a few from there. They seem to have made a
comeback in recent years and I can't say I think that's a good thing.

We have exactly those tiny little black ones. It isn't so much the
one-on-one fight as the mob violence that ensues when they gather en
masse. Watering time isn't as much fun now as it was before Xmas, and
the weeds are growing.

I think I know what you mean about the Hexham Greys, we may have had
some a few years back -- are they stripy? A few pulling together could
just about lift a small child. Sharp painful bite IIRC.

Good luck with the Indian Mynas.
--
Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia
"He plants trees to benefit another generation"
- Caecilius Statius

Arguments
 

Ross McKay wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:41:17 +1100, Trish Brown wrote:

[...]
The mozzies are back in abundance. #$%^. ZzzzzzZZZZ!...zzzzZZZ! :/
You're not wrong the we've got tiny little black ones that always
seem to bite where you can't reach 'em. I don't s'pose you'd get Hexham
Greys out where you are? We live about a block away from the edge of
Hexham Swamp and so we get a few from there. They seem to have made a
comeback in recent years and I can't say I think that's a good thing.

We have exactly those tiny little black ones. It isn't so much the
one-on-one fight as the mob violence that ensues when they gather en
masse. Watering time isn't as much fun now as it was before Xmas, and
the weeds are growing.

I think I know what you mean about the Hexham Greys, we may have had
some a few years back -- are they stripy? A few pulling together could
just about lift a small child. Sharp painful bite IIRC.

Good luck with the Indian Mynas.

Yeah, the Hexham Greys are grey, striped with dark brown or black and
*huge*.

I had a beaut hit on an IM today: got 'im with the hose on 'jet', right
up the Khyber. It made my day! ;-

--
Trish Brown {|:-}

Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Arguments
 

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...

i have heard (but, now having my 2nd consecutive year of Near-Total
Curcurbit Failure *, (snip) * this really can happen, trust me.

I can't understand this at all because it seems to be such a rarity to
manage to have such a failure. It has me fascinated.

some of my failures have ME fascinated too. g

as of today, i've ended up with 3 young zucchini (fruiting now), 2 cucumbers
(we might get some fruit before the frost (?) a siberian melon with only 2
fruits on it (from a seed that got accidentally dropped on the ground!!), &
a number of pumpkin plants which are still living but never seem to have
made any female flowers(!) and i suspect it's getting much too late for
that. nothing else made it.

1: i planted seed late, as the weather here is mental & i was trying to
avoid "late" frosts.
2: then, i had germination problems because by then it was getting hot &
dry, which led to most of them just not germinating (or perhaps drying out
at the crucial moment, more likely).
3: of those which came up, the snails & bugs did most of them in. i often
protect wee plants with a cut-off plastic bottle held with a stick, but the
snails are simply more numerous than when we arrived, & clearly developing
an unnatural intelligence ;-) and the weather seemed to bring a plethora of
grasshoppers & such.
4: then i had the swathe of deaths which you have to just accept for little
plants when its suddenly turned hot & there's just no rain.
5: of the remainders, i ended up with what's listed above!! so the lack of
female flowers on the pumpkins is really the only truly mysterious (to me)
situation. the other problems, well, that's life in the garden. luckily i
have turned philosophical about these things.

one thing i did do which i felt was an excellent idea (despite the failure
that followed) is that i put the 2nd (or was it 3rd?) attempt at cucumbers
into egg cartons. (potting mix to the top of the hollow, and a seed in
each). while they were still really small & hadn't outgrown the hollows in
the carton, i split the carton & planted them out (with the bottle covers
per above). until most of them died subsequently of the causes outlined
above, they were fine, so this is something i think i should do next year;
a: you can start them a bit earlier than direct planting & b: they had no
problems settling in like if they had been in pots, so then c: they were
much more resistant to the heat/dryness. clearly, they were not at all
resistant to being reduced to tiny stumps by pests, but there it is. :-) i
tried toilet rolls last year, but egg cartons were way better imo.

Have you tried adding tspn of Trace elements to the area where you're
trying to grow them just in case you have a problem? (Although I realise
that could also compound a problem if you have too much of 'X' - but your
soil would be classified on the light side in terms of overall fertility I
would think.

well, yes. plenty of minerals but hardly any humus! i strongly doubt this is
quite my thing though. i'm starting to feel inclined to try some of the
biodynamic preps.

I try to remember to add a tspn once a year but know I'm sloppy about it.
I'm better about giving it to my roses as that is part of my routine of
looking after them in spring. I can't remember the last time the veg beds
a dose and I'll bet my bottom dollar that my garden notebook has nothing
to say on the subject either - yet another thing I should be more
religious about.

i can't emphasis strongly enough that i am an erratic, lazy & fairly
disorganised gardener :-) i've come to accept this so now i can work around
it. it means i've given up entirely on notebooks, organised rotations, doing
things the day i first thought of it, regular applications of x, y or z, and
so forth. some of us are more philosophically inclined to work towards
acceptance of things rather than change g

i also feel that we need to be more open to alternative experiences - i
really do know that for most people, cucurbits (esp zucchini & such) are
just dead easy, but there are always people or locations where success is
not assured. i seem to be in such a location (abetted no doubt by laziness &
general disorganisation). on the other hand, imo i'm a pretty good brassica
grower & the reality is that i value brassicas more!!!! (we won't discuss
here what happened to my bumper broccoli crop in spring - damn the ducks &
damn my laziness!) also my tomatoes aren'\t much to write home about,
because i quite like eating tomatoes but growing them just isn't my thing, i
just can'\t seem to get interested.

therefore i think i am saying that my failure with cucurbits is probably not
as fascinating as we think it is, it's probably just natural consequences,
so i'm fine with that. :-)

thanks as ever for input!
kylie

Arguments
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...

i have heard (but, now having my 2nd consecutive year of Near-Total
Curcurbit Failure *, (snip) * this really can happen, trust me.

I can't understand this at all because it seems to be such a rarity to
manage to have such a failure. It has me fascinated.

some of my failures have ME fascinated too. g

as of today, i've ended up with 3 young zucchini (fruiting now), 2
cucumbers (we might get some fruit before the frost (?) a siberian melon
with only 2 fruits on it (from a seed that got accidentally dropped on the
ground!!), & a number of pumpkin plants which are still living but never
seem to have made any female flowers(!) and i suspect it's getting much
too late for that. nothing else made it.

What is a siberian melon?

1: i planted seed late, as the weather here is mental & i was trying to
avoid "late" frosts.
2: then, i had germination problems because by then it was getting hot &
dry, which led to most of them just not germinating (or perhaps drying out
at the crucial moment, more likely).
3: of those which came up, the snails & bugs did most of them in. i often
protect wee plants with a cut-off plastic bottle held with a stick, but
the snails are simply more numerous than when we arrived, & clearly
developing an unnatural intelligence ;-) and the weather seemed to bring a
plethora of grasshoppers & such.
4: then i had the swathe of deaths which you have to just accept for
little plants when its suddenly turned hot & there's just no rain.
5: of the remainders, i ended up with what's listed above!! so the lack of
female flowers on the pumpkins is really the only truly mysterious (to me)
situation. the other problems, well, that's life in the garden. luckily i
have turned philosophical about these things.

I pull off the ends of pumpkins when they get a bit too long. I'm sure that
I started this after reading that it forced the plant to produce female
flowers. I can't remember now but I know I've done it on my one pumpkin
plant and it has lots of pumpkins on it - it's one of those slim waisted,
pale skinned ones rather than a traditional Qld blue shaped ones. Probably
in one of those notebooks of mine, somewhere. I read them now and then and
then realise I need to take action and do something.

one thing i did do which i felt was an excellent idea (despite the failure
that followed) is that i put the 2nd (or was it 3rd?) attempt at cucumbers
into egg cartons. (potting mix to the top of the hollow, and a seed in
each). while they were still really small & hadn't outgrown the hollows in
the carton, i split the carton & planted them out (with the bottle covers
per above). until most of them died subsequently of the causes outlined
above, they were fine, so this is something i think i should do next year;
a: you can start them a bit earlier than direct planting & b: they had no
problems settling in like if they had been in pots, so then c: they were
much more resistant to the heat/dryness. clearly, they were not at all
resistant to being reduced to tiny stumps by pests, but there it is. :-) i
tried toilet rolls last year, but egg cartons were way better imo.

Have you tried adding tspn of Trace elements to the area where you're
trying to grow them just in case you have a problem? (Although I realise
that could also compound a problem if you have too much of 'X' - but your
soil would be classified on the light side in terms of overall fertility
I would think.

well, yes. plenty of minerals but hardly any humus! i strongly doubt this
is quite my thing though. i'm starting to feel inclined to try some of the
biodynamic preps.

Perhaps you need to work on building up the humus? If you have healthy soil
with lots of earth worms than trace elements shouldn't be a prob. My soil
was crap when I began and parts of it still are. I know from some of my
pants that I have some deficiencies. This year I really need to do a lot of
work over winter in areas that I should never have planted in till I'd done
some really good soil prep.

I try to remember to add a tspn once a year but know I'm sloppy about it.
I'm better about giving it to my roses as that is part of my routine of
looking after them in spring. I can't remember the last time the veg
beds a dose and I'll bet my bottom dollar that my garden notebook has
nothing to say on the subject either - yet another thing I should be more
religious about.

i can't emphasis strongly enough that i am an erratic, lazy & fairly
disorganised gardener :-)

That sounds very familiar. My garden is generally a mess but it's a pretty
productive one and I do do a bit in some area of the garden every few days
at the longest - usually it's something every day but sometimes, I'm not up
to it, or not available. The trouble is that in a big garden like mine, is
that by the time I get back to that area again, it's a mess again.

i've come to accept this so now i can work around
it. it means i've given up entirely on notebooks, organised rotations,
doing things the day i first thought of it, regular applications of x, y
or z, and so forth. some of us are more philosophically inclined to work
towards acceptance of things rather than change g

I'm not good at organised rotations either but I do try to put things in my
garden notebooks because I can never remember things like recipes for
pesticides or what particular plants like.

i also feel that we need to be more open to alternative experiences - i
really do know that for most people, cucurbits (esp zucchini & such) are
just dead easy, but there are always people or locations where success is
not assured. i seem to be in such a location (abetted no doubt by laziness
& general disorganisation). on the other hand, imo i'm a pretty good
brassica grower & the reality is that i value brassicas more!!!! (we won't
discuss here what happened to my bumper broccoli crop in spring - damn the
ducks & damn my laziness!) also my tomatoes aren'\t much to write home
about, because i quite like eating tomatoes but growing them just isn't my
thing, i just can'\t seem to get interested.

therefore i think i am saying that my failure with cucurbits is probably
not as fascinating as we think it is, it's probably just natural
consequences, so i'm fine with that. :-)

Well it does sound liek you are somethimes shovelling it uphill. I seldom
see snails here and certainly don't have a duck problem in my garden. My
biggest prob is the bloody sulphur cresteds.

Arguments
 

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
u...

as of today, i've ended up with 3 young zucchini (fruiting now), 2
cucumbers (we might get some fruit before the frost (?) a siberian
melon with only 2 fruits on it (from a seed that got accidentally dropped
on the ground!!), & a number of pumpkin plants which are still living but
never seem to have made any female flowers(!) and i suspect it's getting
much too late for that. nothing else made it.

What is a siberian melon?

actually, it might be "black mountain" rather than siberian... i can't
recall which & the dropped seed is nowhere near a tag. BUT, either way, a
melon which is meant to go better in a cooler climate (i tried other melons
2 years running & got sfa, so i gave up that idea). atm they're as big as
softballs (all both of them ;-) with a watermelon pattern on the skin.

I pull off the ends of pumpkins when they get a bit too long. I'm sure
that I started this after reading that it forced the plant to produce
female flowers.

now that you mention it, i've heard that too. thanks for reminder (for next
year!)

well, yes. plenty of minerals but hardly any humus! i strongly doubt this
is quite my thing though. i'm starting to feel inclined to try some of
the biodynamic preps.

Perhaps you need to work on building up the humus? If you have healthy
soil with lots of earth worms than trace elements shouldn't be a prob. My
soil was crap when I began and parts of it still are. I know from some of
my pants that I have some deficiencies.

i love a comical typo, fran g

ahem.
yes. we are adding as much organic matter as possible when all factors are
considered,and i HAVE been finding the soil is getting better & darker &
there are many more worms, but as you know it all takes time. by "not my
thing" i meant adding trace elements, rather than building humus (that
sentence came out wrong). i am all for building humus! fortunately,
gardening is teaching me patience & forbearance. i will just keep going with
the endless rounds of mulching etc. i really am trying to be more organised
with applications of liquid goodness while things are still fairly difficult
soil-wise, as i think they need it. one day, maybe not.

This year I really need to do a lot of
work over winter in areas that I should never have planted in till I'd
done some really good soil prep.

cringe likewise, but i had no patience then.

i can't emphasis strongly enough that i am an erratic, lazy & fairly
disorganised gardener :-)

That sounds very familiar. My garden is generally a mess but it's a
pretty productive one and I do do a bit in some area of the garden every
few days at the longest - usually it's something every day but sometimes,
I'm not up to it, or not available. The trouble is that in a big garden
like mine, is that by the time I get back to that area again, it's a mess
again.

that's it, isn't it. one's energy & other resources (water, mulch, whatever)
have to be spread thinly sometimes. i'm no longer doing ornamental gardening
on a daily basis like i was for quite some time there, which is a bit of a
relief. i'm aiming for a more self-sustaining arrangement now that things
are growing in & the shapes & plans of things are starting to be realised.
with the veg, there is always something to eat, so i am satisfied with our
progress.

therefore i think i am saying that my failure with cucurbits is probably
not as fascinating as we think it is, it's probably just natural
consequences, so i'm fine with that. :-)

Well it does sound liek you are somethimes shovelling it uphill.

i would agree with that wholeheartedly. :-) it's probably a natural
consequence of learning on the job plus having 4000 other things to do which
are a permanent distraction (when my house is fully repaired everything will
be easier.)

I seldom
see snails here

i found out that the compostibles i get from the cafe where i work sometimes
contains snails & slugs!! when i find them in the veggies i kill them before
chucking them in the bucket, but nobody else does! (i thought anyone would
naturally do that, but apparently not). so i've inherited pests from other
people.

and when we first came, things were scanty & dry. the more lush the garden
gets, the more the snails etc thrive, so i suppose their presence is also a
compliment to me ;-). i still kill the ****ers when i find them, though, but
don't put out permanent baits or antyhing.

and certainly don't have a duck problem in my garden. My
biggest prob is the bloody sulphur cresteds.

may i never have that problem. i really like the ducks, & they've clearly
been breeding on the dams for many years before i came, so it is up to me to
get the net out over the brassicas when they're around. (i don't see them
outside duckling season, so it's not a permanent problem). likewise the
possums who eat the apples - they don't generally bother us, & when the day
comes that dh is up to being really organised about the fruit, i suppose
they will be less of a problem (or more of one, depending on how you look at
it)! i am definitely a fan of picking my battles, otherwise we'd have moved
to town about 3 weeks after we got here g
kylie

Arguments
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message

Perhaps you need to work on building up the humus? If you have healthy
soil with lots of earth worms than trace elements shouldn't be a prob.
My soil was crap when I began and parts of it still are. I know from
some of my pants that I have some deficiencies.

i love a comical typo, fran g

:-)) Now you mention it.......

ahem.
yes. we are adding as much organic matter as possible when all factors are
considered,and i HAVE been finding the soil is getting better & darker &
there are many more worms, but as you know it all takes time. by "not my
thing" i meant adding trace elements,

Yep, I had figured that, but given impoverished soil and a constant
struggle, it could be worth thinking about. It's not as if it's a poison or
taking on board the whole raft of chemical growing. I garden, most of the
time, organically but I never call myself an organic gardener as that
removes the possibility of the other world where occasionally there are
products I might just use.

rather than building humus (that
sentence came out wrong). i am all for building humus! fortunately,
gardening is teaching me patience & forbearance. i will just keep going
with the endless rounds of mulching etc. i really am trying to be more
organised with applications of liquid goodness while things are still
fairly difficult soil-wise, as i think they need it. one day, maybe not.

This year I really need to do a lot of
work over winter in areas that I should never have planted in till I'd
done some really good soil prep.

cringe likewise, but i had no patience then.

i can't emphasis strongly enough that i am an erratic, lazy & fairly
disorganised gardener :-)

That sounds very familiar. My garden is generally a mess but it's a
pretty productive one and I do do a bit in some area of the garden every
few days at the longest - usually it's something every day but sometimes,
I'm not up to it, or not available. The trouble is that in a big garden
like mine, is that by the time I get back to that area again, it's a mess
again.

that's it, isn't it. one's energy & other resources (water, mulch,
whatever) have to be spread thinly sometimes. i'm no longer doing
ornamental gardening on a daily basis like i was for quite some time
there, which is a bit of a relief. i'm aiming for a more self-sustaining
arrangement now that things are growing in & the shapes & plans of things
are starting to be realised. with the veg, there is always something to
eat, so i am satisfied with our progress.

therefore i think i am saying that my failure with cucurbits is probably
not as fascinating as we think it is, it's probably just natural
consequences, so i'm fine with that. :-)

Well it does sound liek you are somethimes shovelling it uphill.

i would agree with that wholeheartedly. :-) it's probably a natural
consequence of learning on the job plus having 4000 other things to do
which are a permanent distraction (when my house is fully repaired
everything will be easier.)

I seldom
see snails here

i found out that the compostibles i get from the cafe where i work
sometimes contains snails & slugs!! when i find them in the veggies i kill
them before chucking them in the bucket, but nobody else does! (i thought
anyone would naturally do that, but apparently not). so i've inherited
pests from other people.

and when we first came, things were scanty & dry. the more lush the garden
gets, the more the snails etc thrive, so i suppose their presence is also
a compliment to me ;-). i still kill the ****ers when i find them, though,
but don't put out permanent baits or antyhing.

and certainly don't have a duck problem in my garden. My
biggest prob is the bloody sulphur cresteds.

may i never have that problem. i really like the ducks, & they've clearly
been breeding on the dams for many years before i came, so it is up to me
to get the net out over the brassicas when they're around. (i don't see
them outside duckling season, so it's not a permanent problem). likewise
the possums who eat the apples - they don't generally bother us, & when
the day comes that dh is up to being really organised about the fruit, i
suppose they will be less of a problem (or more of one, depending on how
you look at it)! i am definitely a fan of picking my battles, otherwise
we'd have moved to town about 3 weeks after we got here g

LOL. A delightful post, as usual.

Arguments
 

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...

ahem.
yes. we are adding as much organic matter as possible when all factors
are considered,and i HAVE been finding the soil is getting better &
darker & there are many more worms, but as you know it all takes time. by
"not my thing" i meant adding trace elements,

Yep, I had figured that, but given impoverished soil and a constant
struggle, it could be worth thinking about. It's not as if it's a poison
or taking on board the whole raft of chemical growing. I garden, most of
the time, organically but I never call myself an organic gardener as that
removes the possibility of the other world where occasionally there are
products I might just use.

i must confess i use zero from time to time on weeds in the paths (although
i'm apparently converting to vinegar ;-) although that's the only thing.
even so, many of my friends don't know this!!! g

anyway, back to the soil problem. that what why i got to thinking about the
bio preparations. which i'm still thinking about. it's true that i'd feel a
twit carefully stirring clockwise x times & so forth, but then again i've
seen what they can do.

in further news!!! dh found some little potimarron* lurking on the
potimarron vines!!! and the pumpkin (dutch crookneck) has finally made 2
female flowers. if the frost holds off, we should at least get a couple of
potimarron i hope. i don't know if the frost will hold off or not. fingers
crossed.
kylie
* many people don't know these - they are the king of french pumpkins. i'm
not really a pumpkin person so it's all a bit lost on me, but they're the
pumpkin-lovers' delight.

Arguments
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
. au...

ahem.
yes. we are adding as much organic matter as possible when all factors
are considered,and i HAVE been finding the soil is getting better &
darker & there are many more worms, but as you know it all takes time.
by "not my thing" i meant adding trace elements,

Yep, I had figured that, but given impoverished soil and a constant
struggle, it could be worth thinking about. It's not as if it's a poison
or taking on board the whole raft of chemical growing. I garden, most of
the time, organically but I never call myself an organic gardener as that
removes the possibility of the other world where occasionally there are
products I might just use.

i must confess i use zero from time to time on weeds in the paths
(although i'm apparently converting to vinegar ;-) although that's the
only thing. even so, many of my friends don't know this!!! g

:-)) Well given the noxious weed value of some of Oz's weeds, we have to
use herbicides around the place and I have my own personal 5 L container. I
should say that it only contains a dribble in the bottom and I've only ever
asked once in about the last 10 years for a redribble from Himself's farm
supply so I don't use a lot of it. I do also own a small container of
tree/blackberry killer and I've only ever used that applied with a paint
brush.


anyway, back to the soil problem. that what why i got to thinking about
the bio preparations. which i'm still thinking about. it's true that i'd
feel a twit carefully stirring clockwise x times & so forth, but then
again i've seen what they can do.

I must admit that I've only ever read about it and never seen it but would
like to. I know some quite hard bitten farmers seem to think it has some
power of good and I know that Phillip Adams's farm (or is it his wife's
farm) is run on bio lines and Phillip is enough of a sceptic to make me
wonder about it too.

in further news!!! dh found some little potimarron* lurking on the
potimarron vines!!!

What the....?

and the pumpkin (dutch crookneck) has finally made 2
female flowers. if the frost holds off, we should at least get a couple of
potimarron i hope. i don't know if the frost will hold off or not. fingers
crossed.

Yep - it's getting rather nippy already :-((( It'll be a bit longer yet
before my rockmelons are ripe so I must hunt out some old windows to put
over them.

kylie
* many people don't know these - they are the king of french pumpkins. i'm
not really a pumpkin person so it's all a bit lost on me, but they're the
pumpkin-lovers' delight.

Ah - so that's what they are. Where do you get your unusual seeds from.

Arguments
 

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
u...

* many people don't know these - they are the king of french pumpkins.
i'm not really a pumpkin person so it's all a bit lost on me, but they're
the pumpkin-lovers' delight.

Ah - so that's what they are. Where do you get your unusual seeds from.

they're not unusual within the french-speaking community round here (and
presumably elsewhere) :-) i will give you some! conrad the veggie man also
sells them sometimes, but i'm not sure about this year(?)

diggers, eden, & some of those people have seeds which have unfortunately
become unusual these days (this is why i think they provide a valuable
service). i reckon people who are REALLY into heirloom flowers & veg would
benefit greatly from joining the seed-savers network (i save some seed but
truthfully i don't have quite that level of interest or commitment - i just
want to feed myself & family).

i have a few gardening friends who've given me some nice things too - it
would be good to join or create a really devoted & enthusiastic veggie
gardener's club (i reckon).
kylie

Arguments
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
u...

* many people don't know these - they are the king of french pumpkins.
i'm not really a pumpkin person so it's all a bit lost on me, but
they're the pumpkin-lovers' delight.

Ah - so that's what they are. Where do you get your unusual seeds from.

they're not unusual within the french-speaking community round here (and
presumably elsewhere) :-) i will give you some! conrad the veggie man also
sells them sometimes, but i'm not sure about this year(?)

diggers, eden, & some of those people have seeds which have unfortunately
become unusual these days (this is why i think they provide a valuable
service). i reckon people who are REALLY into heirloom flowers & veg would
benefit greatly from joining the seed-savers network (i save some seed but
truthfully i don't have quite that level of interest or commitment - i
just want to feed myself & family).

i have a few gardening friends who've given me some nice things too - it
would be good to join or create a really devoted & enthusiastic veggie
gardener's club (i reckon).

Speaking of seed saving, I've just been saving bean and cucumber seeds so
dug out my seed saving books. the American one 'Seed to seed' gives me the
poops, whereas the Aussie on done by Michel and Jude Fanton is just the bees
whiskers.

But yes, I agree with you about the veggie growers club. I'm part of a
network of gardeners like that here but it's an underground thing really.

Arguments
 

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...

i have a few gardening friends who've given me some nice things too - it
would be good to join or create a really devoted & enthusiastic veggie
gardener's club (i reckon).

Speaking of seed saving, I've just been saving bean and cucumber seeds so
dug out my seed saving books. the American one 'Seed to seed' gives me
the poops, whereas the Aussie on done by Michel and Jude Fanton is just
the bees whiskers.

i agree, _that_ is an excellent book (indeed it's the only seed saving book
i even have).

But yes, I agree with you about the veggie growers club. I'm part of a
network of gardeners like that here but it's an underground thing really.

i think that's what tends to happen, it would just be nice to have lots of
organised, involved people all in it together & have public meetings. or
something. actually, what am i saying? :-)

i have some spare potimarron seed with your name on it!!
kylie

Arguments
 

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...

i have a few gardening friends who've given me some nice things too - it
would be good to join or create a really devoted & enthusiastic veggie
gardener's club (i reckon).

Speaking of seed saving, I've just been saving bean and cucumber seeds so
dug out my seed saving books. the American one 'Seed to seed' gives me
the poops, whereas the Aussie on done by Michel and Jude Fanton is just
the bees whiskers.

i agree, _that_ is an excellent book (indeed it's the only seed saving
book i even have).

But yes, I agree with you about the veggie growers club. I'm part of a
network of gardeners like that here but it's an underground thing really.

i think that's what tends to happen, it would just be nice to have lots of
organised, involved people all in it together & have public meetings. or
something. actually, what am i saying? :-)

i have some spare potimarron seed with your name on it!!

Thank you Kylie. I need to send you an 'e' about a garden tour - we've
changed providers.