Hello.
I just came across a problem concerning Nothofagus trees. There is a
wealth of species from the southern hemisphere and they are supposed to
have spread apart to very distant places (Chile, Australia, NZ) after
continental the drift from Antartica.

My question is simple. Are these shrubs and trees supposed to get their
nitrogen from symbiotic bacteria, as it is known in other species as
Casuarina (and desert oak in Australia) ? Is this case they would
sustain poor soil conditions. This is true for instance for Alnus shrubs
(Alder) growing on stony scree here in the french Alpes. Some people in
France are trying to adapt some Nothofagus varieties, not only to the
wild, but to gardens.

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration and comments.

--
Jean Pelmont
for mail remove aky

JRP wrote:
Hello.
I just came across a problem concerning Nothofagus trees. There is a
wealth of species from the southern hemisphere and they are supposed to
have spread apart to very distant places (Chile, Australia, NZ) after
continental the drift from Antartica.

My question is simple. Are these shrubs and trees supposed to get their
nitrogen from symbiotic bacteria, as it is known in other species as
Casuarina (and desert oak in Australia) ? Is this case they would
sustain poor soil conditions. This is true for instance for Alnus shrubs
(Alder) growing on stony scree here in the french Alpes. Some people in
France are trying to adapt some Nothofagus varieties, not only to the
wild, but to gardens.

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration and comments.

Not sure how likely you are to get a useful answer here.

Perhaps in a botanical newsgroup?

Nothofagus are ectomycorhizal. No appropriate fungal symbiont,
no growth.

(JRP) writes:

Hello.
I just came across a problem concerning Nothofagus trees. There is a
wealth of species from the southern hemisphere and they are supposed to
have spread apart to very distant places (Chile, Australia, NZ) after
continental the drift from Antartica.

My question is simple. Are these shrubs and trees supposed to get their
nitrogen from symbiotic bacteria, as it is known in other species as
Casuarina (and desert oak in Australia) ? Is this case they would
sustain poor soil conditions. This is true for instance for Alnus shrubs
(Alder) growing on stony scree here in the french Alpes. Some people in
France are trying to adapt some Nothofagus varieties, not only to the
wild, but to gardens.

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration and comments.

--
Jean Pelmont
for mail remove aky

Mike McBain wrote:

Nothofagus are ectomycorhizal. No appropriate fungal symbiont,
no growth.


Thanks for your reply. Most forest trees, at least in Europe, are
ectomycorhized. Appropriate symbionts are available since a dozen
species of Nothofagus are grown by distributors.

My question is about bacteria and dinitrogen assimilation. No fungus is
able to do that. Symbiotic bacteria help the plant to bypass the need
for nitrogenous organic supplies.


--
Jean Pelmont
for mail remove aky

JRP wrote:
Hello.
I just came across a problem concerning Nothofagus trees. There is a
wealth of species from the southern hemisphere and they are supposed to
have spread apart to very distant places (Chile, Australia, NZ) after
continental the drift from Antartica.

Yes. There are 8 genera and 100 species spread throughout
the world. However, there are only five of importance in NZ.
Generally, they grow from sea level to about 1200 metres,
and depending on the species, easily handle a variety of
conditions and poor or stony soils.



My question is simple. Are these shrubs and trees supposed to get their
nitrogen from symbiotic bacteria, as it is known in other species as
Casuarina (and desert oak in Australia) ?

I dont think so.

Is this case they would
sustain poor soil conditions.

They will.

This is true for instance for Alnus shrubs
(Alder) growing on stony scree here in the french Alpes. Some people in
France are trying to adapt some Nothofagus varieties, not only to the
wild, but to gardens.

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration and comments.

The species here a (ref JT Salmon)

Nothofagus menziesii (silver beech)

Grows over a wide range of condition, In moderate conditions
will grow to 30 metres with a trunk up to 2 metres through,
to a dwarf form in harsh mountain conditions. Grows 0 ASL to
900 m.
I have a magnificent large dining room table made of the
timber.

N truncata (hard beech)

Grows 0 - 900 m ASL. Widespread in the country.
Up to 30m tall and 2 m through.
Partly deciduous in late winter early spring.

N fusca (red beech)

Our best looking beech. Bright red foliage when young and
for many years.
30m and 2-3 metres through.
Widespread, 0-1050m ASL Handles wide range of conditions.

N solandri (black beech)

30m and up to 1m through.
Widespread. Grows 0-750 m.

N solandri variety cliffortioides (mountain beech)

15m and up to 1m through.
Grows 0-1200m and is mostly a sub alpine/mountain tree.
Handles tough climates and poor soils.

Our beechs are 50-100 million years old, typically found
along the mountain ranges, handle almost any conditions and
poor soils. The likes of mountain beech will "colonise"
mountain scree. In bad conditions they simply grow slower
and may only reach 1 m tall, but they survive.

JC

JRP wrote:


I am growing two tiny Manuka trees from seeds in my garden. I wonder if
they will make it. They should understand spring is coming.

Manuka are tough as old boots, depending on how small tiny is I would
think they would do fine in Southern France, just watch the watering if
this summer is anything like last one ;-)

Peter (Dundee, Ecosse)
Watching his rhubarb seedlings on the kitchen windowsill carefully (two
true leaves and counting), the daffodils are up but not near flowering
yet.
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

Thanks a lot for your detailed post, I saved it on disk. I could see
several Nothofagus species in both islands, some seemed to be very
common indeed. With a small book I could identify N. menziesii (Tawhai),
N. truncata with larger leaves, and maybe N. fusca, but I was not too
clever to recognize the various plants that are so different from those
we are accustomed to. We were explained different things especially at
Milford Sounds, Lake Wanaka and elsewhere (near Franz Josef).

The flora is magnificient but you have also an awful pest in NZ : Urtica
ferox. ;-))


U. ferox (ongaonga) is not a big deal. I have not heard of any nasty
reactions to its sting. I generally get a slight burning sensation that
goes tingly and then fades after 24 hrs or so. I would rather have a
stinging nettle than bears, alligators etc!

Ongaonga does have a bad habit of occupying the sides of tracks!