Ed asked me this question, and with his permission, I'm repeating it, because hearing about fertilizer's behavior in soil might clarify to people how the situation differs in bonsai cultu


-----Original Message-----

Date: Mon Feb 23 16:42:17 EST 2004
From: "Nina Shishkoff"
Subject: Non-bonsai question
To: "Edmund L. Castillo"


My wife has an iris garden, more than 400 plants of identified cultivars, labels with the names of hybridizers and awards won, etc.
Iris people feed in early spring with 5-10-10 or 10-10-20, whichever is available. We are in Loudoun County, 45 miles west of D.C., 15 miles east of the Blue Ridge, sort of fivish on the map. County agent says the statistical last frost is May 15. We h
ad 70 degrees last week but have had snow the last week of April.

I read somewhere, probably on the Bonsai List, that it takes 30 days or so for granulated fertilizer to disolve and enter the roots.

I said:
That depends on whether it's a slow-release fertilizer and what time of year it is. A regular granular fertilizer applied in warm weather should be available almost immediately. In a real soil situation (as opposed to the soil-less situation in bonsai),
fertilizer is picked up by clay particles and organic material and stored, and the rate of release depends on the amount of clay or organic material in a soil. Every time you water the irises, you cause the fertilizer to be released into the soil-water ph
ase, and be available to plants. If your irises are planted in, say, pure sand, they will need frequent fertilizer application. If they are in heavy soil, less frequent fertilizer application is necessary, because the soil is storing more of the previous
application.

Ed continued:
Questions:

1. What is the difference in effect between using 5-10-10 and 10-20-20 on a bed?

No difference, really. 10-20-20 is stronger upon application, but "strength" depends on the volume of the fertilizer and the volume of the soil bed, and the amount of clay in the soil. Again, if the irises are in pure sand [or bonsai mix], it doesn't mat
ter what strength you add; the plants have about 15 minutes to absorb the nutrients or wait until the next application. If they are in clay soil, the clay will pick up the fertilizer and hold it, and the strength at which you added it isn't very important
as long as you added enough to get picked up by the clay. Does that make sense?


2. Given the time it takes for granulated stuff to reach the roots, when should
I fertilize in this very mixed up climate?

You need to fertilize when you are sure of warm weather, otherwise the chemistry of the soil will transform the fertilizer into ammonia, which is poisonous to plants. That's more of a problem in enclosed spaces like cold frames than in open beds, but you
need to know about it. More important in your situation, the irises aren't metabolically active in cold weather, so the fertilizer could get leached out with cold rain before the plants can get to it. So wait until the tree buds are swelling and most dan
ger of frost is over.

Please feel free to answer on the list if you think the question is of general interest, otherwise off list directly to me. Thanks.

I've discussed this before, but some people may not have heard it. The big difference with bonsai is that we use well-draining soil that usually doesn't store fertilizer, so we have to add fertilizer every few weeks. It's a simpler system.

Nina Shishkoff


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Interesting stuff, Nina. Thanks.

Now, I have a follow up question:

Some time ago, I was told by one of the junior extension people
down in S. Fla. who dabbles in bonsai that "organic"
fertilizers -- seaweed/fish emulsion, etc. -- will ADsorb to
inorganic soil particles (AKA turface, etc.), and will stay
available to roots for some time, while "inorganic" fertilizers
(MiracleGro/Peters, etc.) do not and will flow right through so,
as you say below, roots only take up what passes by them at the
time of application.

It seemed to make sense, and since my soils are tending to have
less and less organic material in them, I've been using both
seaweed and fish emulsion as my main fertilizers, with only an
occasional shot of Miracle Gro because of its micronutrient
content.

Is there anything to this? The ag agents up here claim to know
very little about potted plants -- much less bonsai -- and funnel
all bonsai questions to me (probably 2 a year). :-/

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.


Ed asked me this question, and with his permission, I'm
repeating it, because hearing about fertilizer's behavior in soil
might clarify to people how the situation differs in bonsai
cultu


-----Original Message-----

Date: Mon Feb 23 16:42:17 EST 2004
From: "Nina Shishkoff"
Subject: Non-bonsai question
To: "Edmund L. Castillo"


My wife has an iris garden, more than 400 plants of
identified cultivars, labels with the names of hybridizers and
awards won, etc.
Iris people feed in early spring with 5-10-10 or 10-10-20,
whichever is available. We are in Loudoun County, 45 miles west
of D.C., 15 miles east of the Blue Ridge, sort of fivish on the
map. County agent says the statistical last frost is May 15. We
had 70 degrees last week but have had snow the last week of
April.

I read somewhere, probably on the Bonsai List, that it
takes 30 days or so for granulated fertilizer to disolve and
enter the roots.

I said:
That depends on whether it's a slow-release fertilizer and what
time of year it is. A regular granular fertilizer applied in
warm weather should be available almost immediately. In a real
soil situation (as opposed to the soil-less situation in bonsai),
fertilizer is picked up by clay particles and organic material
and stored, and the rate of release depends on the amount of clay
or organic material in a soil. Every time you water the irises,
you cause the fertilizer to be released into the soil-water
phase, and be available to plants. If your irises are planted
in, say, pure sand, they will need frequent fertilizer
application. If they are in heavy soil, less frequent fertilizer
application is necessary, because the soil is storing more of the
previous application.

Ed continued:
Questions:

1. What is the difference in effect between using 5-10-10
and 10-20-20 on a bed?

No difference, really. 10-20-20 is stronger upon application,
but "strength" depends on the volume of the fertilizer and the
volume of the soil bed, and the amount of clay in the soil.
Again, if the irises are in pure sand [or bonsai mix], it doesn't
matter what strength you add; the plants have about 15 minutes to
absorb the nutrients or wait until the next application. If they
are in clay soil, the clay will pick up the fertilizer and hold
it, and the strength at which you added it isn't very important
as long as you added enough to get picked up by the clay. Does
that make sense?


2. Given the time it takes for granulated stuff to reach
the roots, when should
I fertilize in this very mixed up climate?

You need to fertilize when you are sure of warm weather,
otherwise the chemistry of the soil will transform the fertilizer
into ammonia, which is poisonous to plants. That's more of a
problem in enclosed spaces like cold frames than in open beds,
but you need to know about it. More important in your situation,
the irises aren't metabolically active in cold weather, so the
fertilizer could get leached out with cold rain before the plants
can get to it. So wait until the tree buds are swelling and most
danger of frost is over.

Please feel free to answer on the list if you think the
question is of general interest, otherwise off list directly to
me. Thanks.

I've discussed this before, but some people may not have heard
it. The big difference with bonsai is that we use well-draining
soil that usually doesn't store fertilizer, so we have to add
fertilizer every few weeks. It's a simpler system.

Nina Shishkoff



************************************************** ***************
***************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++

************************************************** ***************
***************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Interesting stuff, Nina. Thanks.

Now, I have a follow up question:

Some time ago, I was told by one of the junior extension people
down in S. Fla. who dabbles in bonsai that "organic"
fertilizers -- seaweed/fish emulsion, etc. -- will ADsorb to
inorganic soil particles (AKA turface, etc.), and will stay
available to roots for some time, while "inorganic" fertilizers
(MiracleGro/Peters, etc.) do not and will flow right through so,
as you say below, roots only take up what passes by them at the
time of application.

It seemed to make sense, and since my soils are tending to have
less and less organic material in them, I've been using both
seaweed and fish emulsion as my main fertilizers, with only an
occasional shot of Miracle Gro because of its micronutrient
content.

Is there anything to this? The ag agents up here claim to know
very little about potted plants -- much less bonsai -- and funnel
all bonsai questions to me (probably 2 a year). :-/

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.


Ed asked me this question, and with his permission, I'm
repeating it, because hearing about fertilizer's behavior in soil
might clarify to people how the situation differs in bonsai
cultu


-----Original Message-----

Date: Mon Feb 23 16:42:17 EST 2004
From: "Nina Shishkoff"
Subject: Non-bonsai question
To: "Edmund L. Castillo"


My wife has an iris garden, more than 400 plants of
identified cultivars, labels with the names of hybridizers and
awards won, etc.
Iris people feed in early spring with 5-10-10 or 10-10-20,
whichever is available. We are in Loudoun County, 45 miles west
of D.C., 15 miles east of the Blue Ridge, sort of fivish on the
map. County agent says the statistical last frost is May 15. We
had 70 degrees last week but have had snow the last week of
April.

I read somewhere, probably on the Bonsai List, that it
takes 30 days or so for granulated fertilizer to disolve and
enter the roots.

I said:
That depends on whether it's a slow-release fertilizer and what
time of year it is. A regular granular fertilizer applied in
warm weather should be available almost immediately. In a real
soil situation (as opposed to the soil-less situation in bonsai),
fertilizer is picked up by clay particles and organic material
and stored, and the rate of release depends on the amount of clay
or organic material in a soil. Every time you water the irises,
you cause the fertilizer to be released into the soil-water
phase, and be available to plants. If your irises are planted
in, say, pure sand, they will need frequent fertilizer
application. If they are in heavy soil, less frequent fertilizer
application is necessary, because the soil is storing more of the
previous application.

Ed continued:
Questions:

1. What is the difference in effect between using 5-10-10
and 10-20-20 on a bed?

No difference, really. 10-20-20 is stronger upon application,
but "strength" depends on the volume of the fertilizer and the
volume of the soil bed, and the amount of clay in the soil.
Again, if the irises are in pure sand [or bonsai mix], it doesn't
matter what strength you add; the plants have about 15 minutes to
absorb the nutrients or wait until the next application. If they
are in clay soil, the clay will pick up the fertilizer and hold
it, and the strength at which you added it isn't very important
as long as you added enough to get picked up by the clay. Does
that make sense?


2. Given the time it takes for granulated stuff to reach
the roots, when should
I fertilize in this very mixed up climate?

You need to fertilize when you are sure of warm weather,
otherwise the chemistry of the soil will transform the fertilizer
into ammonia, which is poisonous to plants. That's more of a
problem in enclosed spaces like cold frames than in open beds,
but you need to know about it. More important in your situation,
the irises aren't metabolically active in cold weather, so the
fertilizer could get leached out with cold rain before the plants
can get to it. So wait until the tree buds are swelling and most
danger of frost is over.

Please feel free to answer on the list if you think the
question is of general interest, otherwise off list directly to
me. Thanks.

I've discussed this before, but some people may not have heard
it. The big difference with bonsai is that we use well-draining
soil that usually doesn't store fertilizer, so we have to add
fertilizer every few weeks. It's a simpler system.

Nina Shishkoff



************************************************** ***************
***************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++

************************************************** ***************
***************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

-----Original Message-----

Date: Mon Feb 23 20:54:42 EST 2004
From: "Jim Lewis"

Some time ago, I was told by one of the junior extension people
down in S. Fla. who dabbles in bonsai that "organic"
fertilizers -- seaweed/fish emulsion, etc. -- will ADsorb to
inorganic soil particles (AKA turface, etc.), and will stay
available to roots for some time,

That is going to depend on what the "organic" fertilizer actually is: In many cases, like fish emulsion, they consist of substances that have not completely broken down: they need the action of microbes to turn them into "inorganic" ions. So if you apply
them and there's something to stick to (pure sand won't be any good), they'll hang around and degrade.

Rapseed cakes are an extreme example: the organic material there isn't close to broken down, so it will take months of microbial activity to release the nutrients. The up-side of that is that the nutrients are released gradually, and therefore last a long
time.

Nina, the expert on manure!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

-----Original Message-----

Date: Mon Feb 23 20:54:42 EST 2004
From: "Jim Lewis"

Some time ago, I was told by one of the junior extension people
down in S. Fla. who dabbles in bonsai that "organic"
fertilizers -- seaweed/fish emulsion, etc. -- will ADsorb to
inorganic soil particles (AKA turface, etc.), and will stay
available to roots for some time,

That is going to depend on what the "organic" fertilizer actually is: In many cases, like fish emulsion, they consist of substances that have not completely broken down: they need the action of microbes to turn them into "inorganic" ions. So if you apply
them and there's something to stick to (pure sand won't be any good), they'll hang around and degrade.

Rapseed cakes are an extreme example: the organic material there isn't close to broken down, so it will take months of microbial activity to release the nutrients. The up-side of that is that the nutrients are released gradually, and therefore last a long
time.

Nina, the expert on manure!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

-----Original Message-----

Date: Mon Feb 23 20:54:42 EST 2004
From: "Jim Lewis"

Some time ago, I was told by one of the junior extension people
down in S. Fla. who dabbles in bonsai that "organic"
fertilizers -- seaweed/fish emulsion, etc. -- will ADsorb to
inorganic soil particles (AKA turface, etc.), and will stay
available to roots for some time,

That is going to depend on what the "organic" fertilizer actually is: In many cases, like fish emulsion, they consist of substances that have not completely broken down: they need the action of microbes to turn them into "inorganic" ions. So if you apply
them and there's something to stick to (pure sand won't be any good), they'll hang around and degrade.

Rapseed cakes are an extreme example: the organic material there isn't close to broken down, so it will take months of microbial activity to release the nutrients. The up-side of that is that the nutrients are released gradually, and therefore last a long
time.

Nina, the expert on manure!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++