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#1
05-03-2004, 04:21 AM
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[IBC] collecting
Peter: I don't know of any potting soils made for trees and shrubs,
except for bonsai mixes. As long as you put those newly collected specimens in the ground or a very large raised growing bed, your potting mix should be fine, but for container growing, you really need a well draining, coarse mix. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Peter K. Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#2
05-03-2004, 04:21 AM
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[IBC] collecting
Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix,
maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. It's going to depend on what you mean by "good quality potting soil." That dark, powdery, vermiculite-filled stuff you buy packaged in 10- or 20-pound bags at Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart, or your typical Mom and Pop nursery is the absolute WORST thing you could plant a tree in. (It's OK for African violets, bulbs, and others of that ilk.) If you have a GOOD local nursery that mixes its OWN potting soil with gravel in it it should do for a while. You always will be better off with bonsai soil. _I_ use screened old soil for this kind of stuff (I know, people are shuddering, but I solar sterilize all of it, and have not lost anything to disease yet). If you cannot get a good potting/bonsai soil, you should plant the trees back into the ground. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#3
05-03-2004, 04:21 AM
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[IBC] collecting
At 07:32 PM 3/4/2004 -0600, Peter K. wrote:
Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. I have had my best success with partially composted bark which I can get from my local nursery (they call it "Starter Mix). ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#4
05-03-2004, 04:24 AM
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[IBC] collecting
Peter: I don't know of any potting soils made for trees and shrubs,
except for bonsai mixes. As long as you put those newly collected specimens in the ground or a very large raised growing bed, your potting mix should be fine, but for container growing, you really need a well draining, coarse mix. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Peter K. Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#5
05-03-2004, 04:24 AM
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[IBC] collecting
Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix,
maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. It's going to depend on what you mean by "good quality potting soil." That dark, powdery, vermiculite-filled stuff you buy packaged in 10- or 20-pound bags at Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart, or your typical Mom and Pop nursery is the absolute WORST thing you could plant a tree in. (It's OK for African violets, bulbs, and others of that ilk.) If you have a GOOD local nursery that mixes its OWN potting soil with gravel in it it should do for a while. You always will be better off with bonsai soil. _I_ use screened old soil for this kind of stuff (I know, people are shuddering, but I solar sterilize all of it, and have not lost anything to disease yet). If you cannot get a good potting/bonsai soil, you should plant the trees back into the ground. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#6
05-03-2004, 04:24 AM
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[IBC] collecting
At 07:32 PM 3/4/2004 -0600, Peter K. wrote:
Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. I have had my best success with partially composted bark which I can get from my local nursery (they call it "Starter Mix). ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#7
05-03-2004, 02:12 PM
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[IBC] collecting
"Peter K." wrote:
Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b Peter: If you can find a Turface distributor (or some retailers too) you can get Turface for about $11 a bag, which is 50 lbs. For my big guys I have in wooden boxes I use the cedar mulch you can find at any Home Desperate or Lowe's. The red stuff is ugly but you can find it without any color added. I use this and cut it with Turface and grit, about 50/50. No problems so far after three years. Remember that if you have something on the big side (I'm talking 5" or more trunks, trees that will eventually be 2-3 ft tall) they're going to be in those boxes for several years--you won't be repotting every year. The cedar mulch will provide plenty of organic material. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#8
05-03-2004, 03:41 PM
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[IBC] collecting
Interesting posts today! This one especially caught my eye as this is the
right idea for collecting by us newbes, a salvage dig! Why? Permission is easy to get, the owner is usually very willing to let you have your pick of anything (if you are a good guest, and sometimes he'll even dig it for you with the back-hoe), the material is dead if you don't save it and it has usually been cared for (pruned, trimmed, etc.) for years which eases the transition into the world of bonsai. A few thoughts on the recovery planting: 1. put it back into the ground if you can, heal it in. This is the best of all options for the plant but does make it a bit inconvenient for you, the grower. 2. put it into a large growing "pot" at least. This could be a cut-down nursery pot or a wood box or a large Mexican pot for that matter. The important thing is room for the plant to grow and recover. 3. use a growing "soil" somewhere in between the "natural" soil and bonsai soil, especially if you are planting in a box or oversized pot. 4. growing "soil" could include re-cycled bonsai or growing soil, ala Jim Lewis (don't forget to sterilize it) or agricultural admixes such as perlite or vermiculite. You can usually get these in large bags at the big box stores for reasonable prices. I think my last bag of perlite was 4 cubic feet and cost under $10. I've not had any luck using straight perlite or vermiculite so add some type of organic material, mulch, decomposed pine bark or such. If you're planting back into the ground, the natural soil works for this. Finally, think small too. As nice as it is to get that big plant, you will be thankful if you also get some small thing or two for variety and companion planting. And the small things won't take up any room when you're dragging the big plant back home. Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a - -----Original Message----- From: Peter K. [mailto 
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:32 PMSubject: collecting Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#9
05-03-2004, 03:42 PM
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[IBC] collecting
The least expensive way to go is buy a bale of Canadian peat and a couple of
50 lb. bags of builder's sand (coarse). Mix the 2 together at a 50-50 rate. Total cost, less than $15. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter K." To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:32 PM Subject: [IBC] collecting Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#10
05-03-2004, 03:44 PM
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[IBC] collecting
Interesting posts today! This one especially caught my eye as this is the
right idea for collecting by us newbes, a salvage dig! Why? Permission is easy to get, the owner is usually very willing to let you have your pick of anything (if you are a good guest, and sometimes he'll even dig it for you with the back-hoe), the material is dead if you don't save it and it has usually been cared for (pruned, trimmed, etc.) for years which eases the transition into the world of bonsai. A few thoughts on the recovery planting: 1. put it back into the ground if you can, heal it in. This is the best of all options for the plant but does make it a bit inconvenient for you, the grower. 2. put it into a large growing "pot" at least. This could be a cut-down nursery pot or a wood box or a large Mexican pot for that matter. The important thing is room for the plant to grow and recover. 3. use a growing "soil" somewhere in between the "natural" soil and bonsai soil, especially if you are planting in a box or oversized pot. 4. growing "soil" could include re-cycled bonsai or growing soil, ala Jim Lewis (don't forget to sterilize it) or agricultural admixes such as perlite or vermiculite. You can usually get these in large bags at the big box stores for reasonable prices. I think my last bag of perlite was 4 cubic feet and cost under $10. I've not had any luck using straight perlite or vermiculite so add some type of organic material, mulch, decomposed pine bark or such. If you're planting back into the ground, the natural soil works for this. Finally, think small too. As nice as it is to get that big plant, you will be thankful if you also get some small thing or two for variety and companion planting. And the small things won't take up any room when you're dragging the big plant back home. Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a - -----Original Message----- From: Peter K. [mailto
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:32 PMSubject: collecting Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#11
05-03-2004, 03:45 PM
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[IBC] collecting
The least expensive way to go is buy a bale of Canadian peat and a couple of
50 lb. bags of builder's sand (coarse). Mix the 2 together at a 50-50 rate. Total cost, less than $15. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter K." To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:32 PM Subject: [IBC] collecting Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#12
05-03-2004, 04:03 PM
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[IBC] collecting
You can go to Turface on line, get the phone number,
and find a local distributor. What I got was MVP used for golf course greens at $8.20 50# bag. Kitsune Miko --- Craig Cowing wrote: "Peter K." wrote: Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b Peter: If you can find a Turface distributor (or some retailers too) you can get Turface for about $11 a bag, which is 50 lbs. For my big guys I have in wooden boxes I use the cedar mulch you can find at any Home Desperate or Lowe's. The red stuff is ugly but you can find it without any color added. I use this and cut it with Turface and grit, about 50/50. No problems so far after three years. Remember that if you have something on the big side (I'm talking 5" or more trunks, trees that will eventually be 2-3 ft tall) they're going to be in those boxes for several years--you won't be repotting every year. The cedar mulch will provide plenty of organic material. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#14
05-03-2004, 05:02 PM
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[IBC] collecting
A local landscape supply company here sells something they call "shrub and
bedding" soil. It is a mixture of topsoil, shredded bark, and course sand. You can buy it for something like $15 for a pickup truck bed full (1/2 yard). Buy one or two bags of Turface or Scotts clay soil conditioner and mix in there and you have a relatively cheap close proximity to Bonsai soil. If you are planting into large grow boxes or better yet, in the ground, there is not as much need to get rid of the fines...at least my collected stuff didn't seem to mind. -----Original Message----- From: Kitsune Miko ] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:32 AM To: Subject: [IBC] collecting You can go to Turface on line, get the phone number, and find a local distributor. What I got was MVP used for golf course greens at $8.20 50# bag. Kitsune Miko --- Craig Cowing wrote: "Peter K." wrote: Is there anything wrong with using a good quality potting mix, maybe even one specifically made for trees and shrubs, for newly collected specimens? i'll be digging a few big guys this spring and i'm not sure if i can afford to buy enough supplies to make the necessary amounts of bonsai soil. The plants are getting ripped out if i don't dig them up so waiting longer isn't an option. thanks everybody. -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b Peter: If you can find a Turface distributor (or some retailers too) you can get Turface for about $11 a bag, which is 50 lbs. For my big guys I have in wooden boxes I use the cedar mulch you can find at any Home Desperate or Lowe's. The red stuff is ugly but you can find it without any color added. I use this and cut it with Turface and grit, about 50/50. No problems so far after three years. Remember that if you have something on the big side (I'm talking 5" or more trunks, trees that will eventually be 2-3 ft tall) they're going to be in those boxes for several years--you won't be repotting every year. The cedar mulch will provide plenty of organic material. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#15
05-03-2004, 06:53 PM
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[IBC] collecting
"Isom, Jeff (EM, PTL)" wrote:
A local landscape supply company here sells something they call "shrub and bedding" soil. It is a mixture of topsoil, shredded bark, and course sand. You can buy it for something like $15 for a pickup truck bed full (1/2 yard). Buy one or two bags of Turface or Scotts clay soil conditioner and mix in there and you have a relatively cheap close proximity to Bonsai soil. If you are planting into large grow boxes or better yet, in the ground, there is not as much need to get rid of the fines...at least my collected stuff didn't seem to mind. Ditto. In a box there's more room, and I find I don't have to be as strict about the contents of the soil. This kind of mixture still drains pretty well yet retains enough moisture. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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