I'm very new to bonsai hobby. What soil ingredients do you use for
Bonsia? If you could break it down for
Confiers
Decidious tree
Azaeles

thank you Bill from Caifornia

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--- Bill Daniels wrote:
I'm very new to bonsai hobby.

Bill,

This is a lot like asking how to make soup. The
ingredients vary from place to place, from mini
climatic zone to mini climatic zone.

Where in California?


One thing most agree on is that soil needs to have the
fine particles sifted out. I don't regularly do this
(my sifters are broken) and can't see a problem, but
my soil mix is very porous and fast draining. I may
wash the fines out in the process of watering.

That said, you use a combination of orgainic an
inorganic materials for the moisture retention
required in your area. Also take acidity into
consideration.

In California, we have a lot of lava available. So I
use that, sand, peat, planting mix, various bagged
sterile composts, and mix as I need the soil. I also
add some micronutrients and a starter plant food.

I don't waste my time on non sterile soil. It is a
false cost savings compared to the damage you can do
to your plants.

So I could give you my soil mixes, but if your
climate and watering constraints vary from mine, my
mixes might hinder you instead of help.

I have found two products that most of us can use,
especially here in the United States. One is Turface
and the other is Dry Stall. Both can be found on the
net for your local distributor. The third component I
like is an orchid mix by Unigrow. It has peat, fir
bark and fine sand. Doesn't see to have much powder,
if at all. My starter fertilizer is Vita Start and is
very weak. I save the akadama and kanuma soils for
special occasions.

Conifers need faster draining soil than decidious.
Azaleas need acidity and drainage.

Hope that helps!

Keep at it until you can do things in your sleep. It
is a hobby that brings me great joy, from either the
serenity I feel from the peacfullness of the trees or
the possiblity that I can pinch and prune trees rather
than people.

Kitsune Miko


What soil
ingredients do you use for
Bonsia? If you could break it down for
Confiers
Decidious tree
Azaeles

thank you Bill from Caifornia



=====
"Art does not take kindly to facts, is helpless to grapple with theories, and is killed outright by a sermon." Agnes Ropplier
(added to the above)
"How many things in life do we bludgeon with facts, render helpless
with theories, and kill with sermons? If art can help us go beyond
these patterns, we certainly need it in our lives."
Anne Wilson Schaef
From, "Women Who Do Too Much Calandar 2004."

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Soil does the following: it anchors plants, it feeds them, it waters them,
and it allows roots to breathe. Each of these things is important. In
bonsai, the nutritive properties of the soil are not very important, since
we fertilize the trees frequently. So what's really important in bonsai
soil is textu the soil must retain water but also allow lots of air to
reach the roots. To do this, you need large particles, so that lots of
air spaces are left in the soil, but some of the particles should be made
of a water-retentive material, usually some kinds of porous rock or
organic material. Generally, bonsai people mix gravel, high-fired clay,
and fine bark particles. I make my bonsai soil out of pine bark,
grani-grit, and turface, but I could use completely different ingredients
and get the same combination of air-space and water retention.

As Kitsune said, you have to adjust the proportions according to your
climate. In Arizona, you'd need more water retention than you'd need in a
cooler, wetter climate, so you might decrease the size of the air-pores
and increase the amount of water-retaining ingredients. You learn this by
trial and error. It will also vary somewhat by tree species; some plants
need better drainage than others.

Nina.

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Bill: Keep soil mixes light and quick draining. Make sure your soils are
dry and sifted. Go easy on organic content for most trees. You can add
nutrients in controlled amounts later by fertilizing.
Vaughn Banting has made the following recommendations for soil
mixes. "For deciduous material and most broadleaf evergreens use a
completely dry mix composed of roughly one part leaf mold, peat moss or
other decomposed organic material to three parts coarse soil, fine aquarium
gravel or a baked clay particle such as 'hadite' along with two parts garden
loam or unimproved potting soil.
All soil mixes need to be very dry, so that they can be worked in
between the exposed roots and rootball of your tree. Dry soil worked in
well with a chop stick or a pencil will eliminate dangerous air pockets.
For azaleas follow the above mix but increase the peat moss to four
or five parts. Use only peat for the organic part of the mix as the slight
acid reaction it provides is just what azaleas require.
If you plan to pot junipers, pines, cedrus, or other needle
evergreens, use a mix of roughly one part organic material that has a
minimal acid reaction, such as 'black cow' manure or leaf mold to five or
six parts coarse sand or fine gravel with two or three parts garden soil."
These are not the only successful soil recipes, but they will ensure a well
drained soil.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Daniels
I'm very new to bonsai hobby. What soil ingredients do you use for
Bonsia? If you could break it down for
Confiers
Decidious tree
Azaeles
thank you Bill from Caifornia

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Bill asked:

I'm very new to bonsai hobby. What soil ingredients do you
use for
Bonsia? If you could break it down for
Confiers
Decidious tree
Azaeles

========
Bill, welcome to bonsai!

We have a section on soil in the FAQ on our website (address
below).

Here is a part of a piece I've done for our "Knowledge Base"
section of the website. It's not up yet, or wasn't last I
looked, but deals with soil a bit. You will note that it isn't
something hard and fast. There's no one-size-fits-all soil
recipe:
============
One bonsai soil mixture will not do for everyone or every tree.
While we all want a light, well-draining soil, my light,
well-draining soil is not likely to be exactly the same as your
light, well-draining soil. Nor is the soil you chose for a bald
cypress (Taxodium distichum) likely to be the same as that used
for a southern red cedar (Juniperus virginiana).
The soil you use for your trees will depend on:
? Your Climate,
? The trees you grow, and
? Your bonsai habits.

The basic composition of a bonsai soil consists of 1/3 coarse
sand -- grains of 1/8 to just under 1/4 inch, with the smaller
sizes preferred -- to promote drainage; 1/3 an organic component,
such as ground sphagnum moss or pine or fir bark, that retains
moisture and holds nutrients, and 1/3 of a coarse, fired clay
(many bonsaiests use a product called Turface) also to help
retain nutrients and moisture. You can start with the
1/3-1/3-1/3 mixture and play with the proportions until you find
the one that works for you and your trees.

A bonsaiist from the damp Pacific Northwest grows some of his
trees in soils that consist primarily of fir bark, sometimes with
some granite chips or coarse sand mixed in. A bonsai nurseryman
from the hotter and drier part of northern California, also uses
a more or less pure fir bark for growing many of his pre-bonsai.
His mix is:
". . . very coarse with very large air spaces. The amount of fine
material should vary according to the container size. In small
pots very fine material is to be avoided, the perfect size would
be about 1/4 inch or a little less with no fines."

The mixture you end up with likely will be the result of a few
years of trial and error, after starting with the basic
three-part mix. You can buy pre-packaged "bonsai soil," but if
you have more than two or three trees, buying dirt can become
expensive. Your best bet is to purchase the components and mix
your own. Nurseries sell pine or fir bark mulch (get the mulch,
not the landscaping 'nuggets'). The sand can be bought from a
quarry. Coarse sandblasting sand is inexpensive. The sand used
for swimming pool filters, while a bit fine, is adequate. For the
clay, use Turface or a similar fired-clay material marketed as a
soil conditioner. Some growers use a product called "Oil Dry"
sold at auto supply stores, which is essentially the same but
perhaps a bit more fine grained.

Here's what the Internet Bonsai Club FAQ has to say about the
possible components of a good soil. Most of these materials will
be available from a well-stocked nursery, but I have added
suggestions for finding the less common materials.
Organic material
Organic peat humus
Sphagnum peat moss
Composted material,
Composted horse or cow manure (farm or stables, for
do-it-yourself compost)
Water-holding material
Turface
Terragreen
Orchid bark
Pine (or fir) bark
"Oil Dry" (from auto supply stores)
Drainage material
Granite chicken grit (farm and feed stores)
Quartz grit (farm and feed stores)
Coarse sand (sand and gravel pits, quarry)
River gravel (sand and gravel pit, quarry)
Aquarium gravel (pet supplies - expensive)
Volcanic sand (sometimes hard to find and too fine)
Sand blasting sand (some builder's supply stores, or sand
blasting firm)
Crushed volcanic rock (aquarium supply)
Perlite
Vermiculite
Haydite

I began this section by noting that the soil you choose depends
on three things -- Your climate, the trees you grow, and your
bonsai habits. Let's take these, one at a time.

If you live in the desert of south Texas, you'll choose a
different soil than I use here in the humid southeast, or that
someone up in Raleigh-Durham, NC might need. The soil you choose
may be heavier, and may retain more moisture than a soil I might
use down here -- but as a desert dweller you still may have to
water twice a day in mid summer. So, the humidity, the amount of
rain you have, the summer heat (and to a lesser extent, winter
cold), and the number of cloudy versus sunny days all become
factors in your decisions about soils.
No article can make those decisions for you.

To a large extent, the trees you grow also will depend on your
climate. But you do have some latitude, here. In my case, I
prefer some of the trees that prefer damp, sometimes outright
swampy habitats. My choice of soil, therefore, often is one that
holds more water than most. Other bonsaiests from my same town
may prefer trees that grow on upland, drier sites -- beech,
hornbeam, dogwood, sand pine. They would choose a lighter, more
fast-draining soil -- one with more sand or pine bark in it than
mine might have.

Only you know your bonsai habits. Do you water religiously? Do
you check each tree and water it individually? Do you water your
trees all at once -- whether some of them really need it or not?
Do you sometimes miss a day here and there? How you work with
your trees can affect the soil you choose. If you do as I tend
to do and water en mass, every day in our hot summers, you might
consider a freely draining soil (depending on the trees). If you
are a fussy waterer, and water each tree according to its needs,
you can more closely match the soil to each tree. If you tend to
be more haphazard about your watering, or are often out of town
for a day or two, a soil that holds water might be called for.

==========

Anyway, if you were looking for THE answer to soil . . . . there
ain't one.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

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++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Bill,
You have several answers here, and all add up to about the same thing. Fast draining and coarse. But ... (and it's a big but) I don't see you letting us know where in California you are. I note this because it's important. The stuff Kit uses, vs. the m
ix I prepare will vary considerably, because of the drastic climate change between the Bay area, and the Valley. This is just one reason we use care when advising people about the -proper- soil. Like Jim told you, There ain't just one!'.

Where are you?

Regards,
Shelly Hurd Central CA - Sunset Zone 8-USDA Zone 9

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Daniels
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 8:29 AM
Subject: [IBC] Making your own soil?


I'm very new to bonsai hobby. What soil ingredients do you use for
Bonsia? If you could break it down for
Confiers
Decidious tree
Azaeles

thank you Bill from Caifornia

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Does anyone know of a source for small screened pine bark? Thanks Rodger
Kessler
-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf
Of Shelly Hurd
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:18 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Making your own soil?


Bill,
You have several answers here, and all add up to about the same thing. Fast
draining and coarse. But ... (and it's a big but) I don't see you letting
us know where in California you are. I note this because it's important.
The stuff Kit uses, vs. the mix I prepare will vary considerably, because of
the drastic climate change between the Bay area, and the Valley. This is
just one reason we use care when advising people about the -proper- soil.
Like Jim told you, There ain't just one!'.

Where are you?

Regards,
Shelly Hurd Central CA - Sunset Zone 8-USDA Zone 9

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Daniels
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 8:29 AM
Subject: [IBC] Making your own soil?


I'm very new to bonsai hobby. What soil ingredients do you use for
Bonsia? If you could break it down for
Confiers
Decidious tree
Azaeles

thank you Bill from Caifornia

************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Does anyone know of a source for small screened pine bark?
Thanks Rodger
Kessler

Screened? How small? How much you willing to pay? If enough,
I'll do it. ;-)

The answer I have to give you is "No. I don't."

I buy a bag of Lowes pine bark mulch, spread it out to dry for a
few days, then bag it up again where it won't get damp again.
When I need some, I fill up an old food processor and turn it on.
Makes a helluva racket, and I'm sure the Cuisinart will burn out
soon, but it works.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Blessed
statistics: A Demonstration -- Welcome to Hooterville!
Population: 2000. Elevation: 3000. Established: 1850. TOTAL =
6850

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++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++