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Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and
doable. Why? The Latin names are far more important. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and
doable. Why? The Latin names are far more important. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
Iris: Of course, the Latin names are far more important and
precise, but sometimes we need to know the Japanese names when looking at Japanese publications. No knowledge is useless. Some is just more useful than others. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Iris Cohen Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. Why? The Latin names are far more important. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Iris: Of course, the Latin names are far more important and
precise, but sometimes we need to know the Japanese names when looking at Japanese publications. No knowledge is useless. Some is just more useful than others. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Iris Cohen Listing the Japanese names for major tree species is very practical and doable. Why? The Latin names are far more important. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Alan:
We not only need to know the common Japanese names when looking at Japanese publications; I think it is necessary to know those names when visiting Japan or when Japanese bonsai artists visit foreign countries to teach. If you want to learn the name of the plant they are talking about you better be able to identify it immediately or try to obtain some kind of name so you can look it up later. The Japanese bonsai artists are not familiar with "botanical" (not Latin..... many are of "Greek" origin!) names and the Japanese do not care what the plant is formally called. They just use the plant material because it is good for bonsai training. They don't care if the plant is a Pinus parviflora or Pinus pentaphylla or Pinus himekomatsu. All they know is that this pine has five needles per fascicle. Bill ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Alan:
We not only need to know the common Japanese names when looking at Japanese publications; I think it is necessary to know those names when visiting Japan or when Japanese bonsai artists visit foreign countries to teach. If you want to learn the name of the plant they are talking about you better be able to identify it immediately or try to obtain some kind of name so you can look it up later. The Japanese bonsai artists are not familiar with "botanical" (not Latin..... many are of "Greek" origin!) names and the Japanese do not care what the plant is formally called. They just use the plant material because it is good for bonsai training. They don't care if the plant is a Pinus parviflora or Pinus pentaphylla or Pinus himekomatsu. All they know is that this pine has five needles per fascicle. Bill ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Name meanings are good to a point. Sometimes when A tree is translated from one language to another , it translates to another existing cultivar making identification confusing. It seems to happen with Japanese Maples. It is difficult sometimes to determine correct names of specific trees.
when trees are translated from Japanese to English you can end up with 2 trees with the same name. Not all cultivars originate in Japan. They are being developed all over the world as well as The United States. If you use japan as a point of naming trees then you can't use translation. It has to more of franetic spelling of japanese names. This way you always maintain the integrity of specific species. In a sense you have to have a universal language which covers all names of trees. It has been Latin up until now. If you develop another universal language then it just gets confusing. -- SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Name meanings are good to a point. Sometimes when A tree is translated from one language to another , it translates to another existing cultivar making identification confusing. It seems to happen with Japanese Maples. It is difficult sometimes to determine correct names of specific trees.
when trees are translated from Japanese to English you can end up with 2 trees with the same name. Not all cultivars originate in Japan. They are being developed all over the world as well as The United States. If you use japan as a point of naming trees then you can't use translation. It has to more of franetic spelling of japanese names. This way you always maintain the integrity of specific species. In a sense you have to have a universal language which covers all names of trees. It has been Latin up until now. If you develop another universal language then it just gets confusing. -- SteveW Long Island NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
G'day all...
What I would find most useful: A tree name database that would include JAPANESE NAME, (maybe CHINESE NAME), BOTANICAL NAME and COMMON NAME...with the capability to sort on JAPANESE NAME, (maybe CHINESE NAME), BOTANICAL NAME and COMMON NAME. This of course, if it's a true database, could be expanded to include a multitude of data about each specific tree... And on, and on, and on... Thanks for listening, and have a good day. Pat Dez of the Arizona High Dezert, at 4550', Oracle, AZ, 2000' above Tucson Sunset Zone 10 USDA Zone 8 aka: Pat Patterson 'riding off in all directions' |
G'day all...
What I would find most useful: A tree name database that would include JAPANESE NAME, (maybe CHINESE NAME), BOTANICAL NAME and COMMON NAME...with the capability to sort on JAPANESE NAME, (maybe CHINESE NAME), BOTANICAL NAME and COMMON NAME. This of course, if it's a true database, could be expanded to include a multitude of data about each specific tree... And on, and on, and on... Thanks for listening, and have a good day. Pat Dez of the Arizona High Dezert, at 4550', Oracle, AZ, 2000' above Tucson Sunset Zone 10 USDA Zone 8 aka: Pat Patterson 'riding off in all directions' |
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:28:07 GMT, Iris Cohen wrote:
Natsu = summer Koyu = peculiar or characteristic Ki = tree The plant in question is a compact white Cattleya, smaller than standard size. According to Bill Valavanis, natsu means summer, as you said, but he divided the rest of the word differently. Yuki means snow and ko may mean small, and that explanation makes the most sense. Iris, Bill's translation is probably the closest but I would group the 'ko' and 'yuki' together to produce the word 'koyuki', meaning 'a light fall of snow' or 'a light snow'. This gives the impression that the flowers are similar to a light summer snowfall. Another set of kanji with the same phonetics is less attractive and means 'powdery snow'. As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. Best wishes in bonsai, Les Dowdell In Zone 3a where we just received an akikoyuki (light fall of snow in autumn) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:28:07 GMT, Iris Cohen wrote:
Natsu = summer Koyu = peculiar or characteristic Ki = tree The plant in question is a compact white Cattleya, smaller than standard size. According to Bill Valavanis, natsu means summer, as you said, but he divided the rest of the word differently. Yuki means snow and ko may mean small, and that explanation makes the most sense. Iris, Bill's translation is probably the closest but I would group the 'ko' and 'yuki' together to produce the word 'koyuki', meaning 'a light fall of snow' or 'a light snow'. This gives the impression that the flowers are similar to a light summer snowfall. Another set of kanji with the same phonetics is less attractive and means 'powdery snow'. As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. Best wishes in bonsai, Les Dowdell In Zone 3a where we just received an akikoyuki (light fall of snow in autumn) ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
All this discussion of Japanese names is interesting BUT here in Florida most
of what I grow does not have a Japanese equivalent. How do you say Ficus salicifolia (nerifolia), natalinsis, heteropodia, benjamina, retusa, burtt-davyi, macrophylla. microcarpa, petiolaris, etc. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
All this discussion of Japanese names is interesting BUT here in Florida most
of what I grow does not have a Japanese equivalent. How do you say Ficus salicifolia (nerifolia), natalinsis, heteropodia, benjamina, retusa, burtt-davyi, macrophylla. microcarpa, petiolaris, etc. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Bill's translation is probably the closest but I would group the 'ko' and
'yuki' together to produce the word 'koyuki', meaning 'a light fall of snow' or 'a light snow'. This gives the impression that the flowers are similar to a light summer snowfall. Excellent. But these are good size flowers, more the size of a snowball. LOL. However, if they remind the registrant of a light summer snowfall, that's fine with me. As regards your request for the placement of stress on particular syllables, my comment would be that the Japanese language does not use stresses but, instead, uses rising and dropping inflections. So how do I, with round eyes, pronounce Natsukoyuki without breaking my teeth? Arigato Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
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