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Microelemnts
Hi
I normally give some microelements mixed with the repotting soil and sometimes I sprinkle some this period of the year on the surface but when is the best period and how often shouldl micro elements be given to the bonsai ? once per ear twice ? more often .. I agree it all depends about the retention of the soil and the washing of the same for strong rains any advice? Thanks -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
I normally give some microelements mixed with the repotting soil and
sometimes I sprinkle some this period of the year on the surface but when is the best period and how often shouldl micro elements be given to the bonsai? Why would you give fertilizer at this time of year, except to indoor bonsai? Many fertilizers nowadays contain trace elements, including Miracid, Dyna-Gro, & some of Peters. Your best bet is to rotate among several different brands, & make sure you give a fertilizer with trace elements about once a month during the growing season. I don't bother with those organic cakes or other concoctions, but I found the plants seem to like fish fertilizer and seaweed extract. I feed Neptune's Harvest about once a month. Just watch out for yellowjackets when you use it outdoors. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra |
On 21 Nov 2004 at 9:58, Theo wrote:
Hi I normally give some microelements mixed with the repotting soil and sometimes I sprinkle some this period of the year on the surface but when is the best period and how often shouldl micro elements be given to the bonsai ? once per ear twice ? more often .. I agree it all depends about the retention of the soil and the washing of the same for strong rains any advice? Thanks The best way is to fertilize with a fertilizer that already contains microelements, since trees need and use them all year long (even hibernating trees need their sustenance). But they don't need MUCH of any one of them -- fractions of a percent per unit of fertilizer/water -- and adding microelements yourself to trees in small pots can easily overdose them. Once a year, assuming your bonsai soil is a free-draining mix would be far to little; the stuff would vanish in a day or two, and I do not know how efficiently trees' roots take up the minor elements. So, I'd recommend a fertilizer that contains it all so that your trees have what they need throughout the year. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Yeah, Jim, the word should be written:
"MICRO-elements", so that everyone would know that the emphasis is on first syllable. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lewis" To: Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: [IBC] Microelemnts On 21 Nov 2004 at 9:58, Theo wrote: Hi I normally give some microelements mixed with the repotting soil and sometimes I sprinkle some this period of the year on the surface but when is the best period and how often shouldl micro elements be given to the bonsai ? once per ear twice ? more often .. I agree it all depends about the retention of the soil and the washing of the same for strong rains any advice? Thanks The best way is to fertilize with a fertilizer that already contains microelements, since trees need and use them all year long (even hibernating trees need their sustenance). But they don't need MUCH of any one of them -- fractions of a percent per unit of fertilizer/water -- and adding microelements yourself to trees in small pots can easily overdose them. Once a year, assuming your bonsai soil is a free-draining mix would be far to little; the stuff would vanish in a day or two, and I do not know how efficiently trees' roots take up the minor elements. So, I'd recommend a fertilizer that contains it all so that your trees have what they need throughout the year. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
HI
Iris Cohen wrote: I normally give some microelements mixed with the repotting soil and sometimes I sprinkle some this period of the year on the surface but when is the best period and how often shouldl micro elements be given to the bonsai? Why would you give fertilizer at this time of year, except to indoor bonsai? microelements are NOT fertilizers are Iron Cupper Sulphur Molibedenum Barium Zinc the lack of some of tehse elements provocke chlorosis or malformation in new growth ins pering or stains on leaves are very importanta and often are given togetehr with the Japanese cakes S correct the soil acidity if is too alkaline because of calcar Many fertilizers nowadays contain trace elements, including Miracid, Dyna-Gro, & some of Peters. in teh States :-) yes not here Your best bet is to rotate among several different brands, & I do with the brands I am used to make sure you give a fertilizer with trace elements about once a month during the growing season. I don't bother with those organic cakes or other concoctions, but I found the plants seem to like fish fertilizer and seaweed extract. still have som fish emulsion I bought in the States but I coudl not find last time I was teher few years ago so probaly I need to orde trought the net I feed Neptune's Harvest about once a month. Just watch out for yellowjackets when you use it outdoors. hard to find Algae in the fertilizers here Thanks MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Jim Lewis wrote: On 21 Nov 2004 at 9:58, Theo wrote: Hi I normally give some microelements mixed with the repotting soil and sometimes I sprinkle some this period of the year on the surface but when is the best period and how often shouldl micro elements be given to the bonsai ? once per ear twice ? more often .. I agree it all depends about the retention of the soil and the washing of the same for strong rains any advice? Thanks The best way is to fertilize with a fertilizer that already contains microelements, since trees need and use them all year long (even hibernating trees need their sustenance). But they don't need MUCH of any one of them -- fractions of a percent per unit of fertilizer/water -- and adding microelements yourself to trees in small pots can easily overdose them. Once a year, assuming your bonsai soil is a free-draining mix would be far to little; the stuff would vanish in a day or two, and I do not know how efficiently trees' roots take up the minor elements. So, I'd recommend a fertilizer that contains it all so that your trees have what they need throughout the year. HI Jim I see I have bought 2 poinds of it few years ago and give a coffee spoon in teh mix and in novembere on the soil some peopel uso jin liquid 2% with water to give to teh soil to acidify it and is good for roots too but not with pines .. Jorge Penalba advice some S sulphur dust on the soil, so I decided to buy some S sulphur and suddenly checked on my microelements box to see if there was any there it is in teh mix ,a high % 15 !!! now the point is will once per year do enough ,or is better maybe to give some each yeach qarter of the year ? teh box says that the quantity is good ( 2 lbs for a 4 sq ft of soil .. but does not say once in spring or november or sparingly... say nothing ! MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
now the point is
will once per year do enough ,or is better maybe to give some each yeach qarter of the year ? teh box says that the quantity is good ( 2 lbs for a 4 sq ft of soil .. but does not say once in spring or november or sparingly... say nothing ! I have to repeat, Theo that the instructions on the package undoubtedly were NOT written to apply to bonsai. Use that stuff according to directions (a couple of time a year, probably) on plants in your garden. For bonsai, use a fertilizer regularly that contains the micronutrients. Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
now the point is
will once per year do enough ,or is better maybe to give some each yeach qarter of the year ? teh box says that the quantity is good ( 2 lbs for a 4 sq ft of soil .. but does not say once in spring or november or sparingly... say nothing ! I have to repeat, Theo that the instructions on the package undoubtedly were NOT written to apply to bonsai. Use that stuff according to directions (a couple of time a year, probably) on plants in your garden. For bonsai, use a fertilizer regularly that contains the micronutrients. Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 21 Nov 2004 at 17:25, Theo wrote:
Why would you give fertilizer at this time of year, except to indoor bonsai? microelements are NOT fertilizers Yes they are. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 21 Nov 2004 at 17:25, Theo wrote:
Why would you give fertilizer at this time of year, except to indoor bonsai? microelements are NOT fertilizers Yes they are. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Jim Lewis wrote: now the point is will once per year do enough ,or is better maybe to give some each yeach qarter of the year ? teh box says that the quantity is good ( 2 lbs for a 4 sq ft of soil .. but does not say once in spring or november or sparingly... say nothing ! I have to repeat, Theo that the instructions on the package undoubtedly were NOT written to apply to bonsai. Use that stuff according to directions (a couple of time a year, probably) on plants in your garden. For bonsai, use a fertilizer regularly that contains the micronutrients. right guess It says nothing .. but as I always did as you are suggesting and most of the time the microelements are contained in the organis fertilizer so will give in spring and late autumn as usaual .. Thanks Jim MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Jim Lewis wrote: On 21 Nov 2004 at 17:25, Theo wrote: Why would you give fertilizer at this time of year, except to indoor bonsai? microelements are NOT fertilizers Yes they are. fertilizers are NPK microelements are F S CU b MB ZN the amazing thing is that we take the same, and in case of deficency we get as sick ( our way ) as plants but we do not get noureshed with oligo elements only nor with vitamins MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Jim Lewis wrote: On 21 Nov 2004 at 17:25, Theo wrote: Why would you give fertilizer at this time of year, except to indoor bonsai? microelements are NOT fertilizers Yes they are. fertilizers are NPK microelements are F S CU b MB ZN the amazing thing is that we take the same, and in case of deficency we get as sick ( our way ) as plants but we do not get noureshed with oligo elements only nor with vitamins MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
On 22 Nov 2004 at 23:04, Theo wrote:
Jim Lewis wrote: On 21 Nov 2004 at 17:25, Theo wrote: Why would you give fertilizer at this time of year, except to indoor bonsai? microelements are NOT fertilizers Yes they are. fertilizers are NPK microelements are F S CU b MB ZN the amazing thing is that we take the same, and in case of deficency we get as sick ( our way ) as plants but we do not get noureshed with oligo elements only nor with vitamins I don't want to beat a dead horse, Theo, but you seem intent of doing what you want to do anyway, but "fertilizer" is defined simply as "a substance used to make soil more fertile." Fertility is: "capable of sustaining abundant plant growth." To grow, plants need NPK and ALL of the trace elements (and there are a few more than those you list). Those are found in good fertilizers. Poor fertilizers only have NPK. However, define it as you will. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 22 Nov 2004 at 23:04, Theo wrote:
Jim Lewis wrote: On 21 Nov 2004 at 17:25, Theo wrote: Why would you give fertilizer at this time of year, except to indoor bonsai? microelements are NOT fertilizers Yes they are. fertilizers are NPK microelements are F S CU b MB ZN the amazing thing is that we take the same, and in case of deficency we get as sick ( our way ) as plants but we do not get noureshed with oligo elements only nor with vitamins I don't want to beat a dead horse, Theo, but you seem intent of doing what you want to do anyway, but "fertilizer" is defined simply as "a substance used to make soil more fertile." Fertility is: "capable of sustaining abundant plant growth." To grow, plants need NPK and ALL of the trace elements (and there are a few more than those you list). Those are found in good fertilizers. Poor fertilizers only have NPK. However, define it as you will. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Theo,
The answer is not simple. However... I do not grow tropicals, only temperate climate hardy plants in zone 6.5 If one uses a soiless mix (e.g. 80% Turface or similar), Micronutrients are important although more so for some species than others. Micro nutrients are not essential throughout the year. Bonsai use different things at different times of their annual cycle. I use a commercial product called Micromax once per year, in the early spring just as the buds are opening. 1/2 level teaspoon per gallon of soil in the pot gives near miraculous results in the color, quality, and substance of leaves on the bonsai. My observation is taht the trace elements provided are most needed when the new leaves are forming but are of very limited use after the leaves have hardened off. At that point regular fertilizers seem to have enough stuff in them to keep the juices flowing properly. Regular use of micro nutrientscould actually be toxic to some plants. Julian Adams Adams' Bonsai Lynchburg, VA |
Theo,
The answer is not simple. However... I do not grow tropicals, only temperate climate hardy plants in zone 6.5 If one uses a soiless mix (e.g. 80% Turface or similar), Micronutrients are important although more so for some species than others. Micro nutrients are not essential throughout the year. Bonsai use different things at different times of their annual cycle. I use a commercial product called Micromax once per year, in the early spring just as the buds are opening. 1/2 level teaspoon per gallon of soil in the pot gives near miraculous results in the color, quality, and substance of leaves on the bonsai. My observation is taht the trace elements provided are most needed when the new leaves are forming but are of very limited use after the leaves have hardened off. At that point regular fertilizers seem to have enough stuff in them to keep the juices flowing properly. Regular use of micro nutrientscould actually be toxic to some plants. Julian Adams Adams' Bonsai Lynchburg, VA |
On 23 Nov 2004 it was written:
Theo, The answer is not simple. However... I do not grow tropicals, only temperate climate hardy plants in zone 6.5 If one uses a soiless mix (e.g. 80% Turface or similar), Micronutrients are important although more so for some species than others. Micro nutrients are not essential throughout the year. Bonsai use different things at different times of their annual cycle. I use a commercial product called Micromax once per year, in the early spring just as the buds are opening. 1/2 level teaspoon per gallon of soil in the pot gives near miraculous results in the color, quality, and substance of leaves on the bonsai. My observation is taht the trace elements provided are most needed when the new leaves are forming but are of very limited use after the leaves have hardened off. At that point regular fertilizers seem to have enough stuff in them to keep the juices flowing properly. Regular use of micro nutrientscould actually be toxic to some plants. Oh my. I must disagree here. I must. With everything except the first sentence, which is true: The answer is not simple. The chemical life of plants also is not simple and cannot be simplified in one or several brief e-mails -- at least not by me in MY limited understanding. But plants grow ALL year -- even when we say they're dormant they grow a little -- somewhere. And as they do, they use the nutrients they find in the soil to help them grow. Most native soils are well-enough stocked with macro- and micro-nutrients that trees and shrubs almost never need fertilizing, despite the claims of the home-garden-oriented fertilizer manufacturers! Bonsai soil on the other hand, is deficient in nutrients -- almost sterile in many cases. And bonsai soil drains so quickly that any chemicals we add are quickly leached away by our frequent watering. This is why we fertilize at weekly or twice- weekly intervals -- to replace the nutrients that the soil lacks and loses. So bonsai need regular feeding to thrive -- both in macro- and micronutrients. They need NPK, & S generally to grow roots, stems and leaves (not necessarily in that order ;-). The micronutrients (Fe, Mn, Zn, Cu, B, S (tho it usually is considered a macronutrient), and Mo take care of the minutiae of plant life. And they do it all year long! Try withholding iron (Fe, a micronutrient) from a bonsai at any time of year and you will almost immediately begin seeing signs of chlorosis (grow azaleas in alkaline conditions, which prevent uptake of Fe, and see how pale the leaves immediately become). Ditto Manganese, Mn. Lack of other micronutrients affects things you don't see as easily, such things as the thickness of cell walls, the production of enzymes and hormones, and a host of other vital processes in plants. But who am I to argue with "the way it's been done." However, _I_ won't give my plants a jolt of micronutrients once or twice a year; they get them in small doses every time I feed (or *almost* every time, I use fish emulsion sometimes and it lacks many/most? micronutrients) -- which is throughout the year, but less frequently in winter. But as they say: Different strokes. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Hi Jim Jim Lewis wrote: I don't want to beat a dead horse, Theo, but you seem intent of doing what you want to do anyway, but "fertilizer" is defined simply as "a substance used to make soil more fertile." Fertility is: "capable of sustaining abundant plant growth." I agree with you seen under this point of view yes are fertilizers MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Hi Jim Jim Lewis wrote: I don't want to beat a dead horse, Theo, but you seem intent of doing what you want to do anyway, but "fertilizer" is defined simply as "a substance used to make soil more fertile." Fertility is: "capable of sustaining abundant plant growth." I agree with you seen under this point of view yes are fertilizers MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
HI Julian JRA BONSAI wrote: Theo, The answer is not simple. However... I do not grow tropicals, only temperate climate hardy plants in zone 6.5 I am in Zone 7 Geneva Switzerland 5 needle pines azaleas and maples If one uses a soiless mix (e.g. 80% Turface or similar), this is what I am tending to do as well with red lava or 3-4 mm granite grit Micronutrients are important although more so for some species than others. Micro nutrients are not essential throughout the year. Bonsai use different things at different times of their annual cycle. I use a commercial product called Micromax once per year, Exactly the same I have , is traded by Heuer a yellowish powder in the early spring just as the buds are opening. 1/2 level teaspoon per gallon of soil in the pot gives near miraculous results in the color, quality, and substance of leaves on the bonsai. this is what I give My observation is taht the trace elements provided are most needed when the new leaves are forming but are of very limited use after the leaves have hardened off. At that point regular fertilizers seem to have enough stuff in them to keep the juices flowing properly. Regular use of micro nutrientscould actually be toxic to some plants. I know ,as for us too many vitamines :-) I give a little pinch of Micromax in november .. a little less than a cofee spoon for 2 aq ft pot But I was wondering if more was needed .... now you fully answered to my question You say that it is no use to give it all year round , and is also logic as during the period of growth and fertilization the microelements are contained in the fertilizer cakes or fertilizer like Biogold Thanks again you ended my quest :-) MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
HI Jim
you are right but as Julian sais she grows in turface (80% so if you use a rich soil you need less micronutrients as are contained therein if you use poor soil you need more micro and macro elements , if you use fertilizers that contains them it is ok no supplement needed all is relative to your plants ans soils how they are cured I agree plants are alive all the time even if when are leaves less the buds get plumpy and roots absorb humidity and also substances but need less when in dormancy , especially of macroelemnts like NPK in fact end oct. I give NPK 0-10-10 7 drops per gallon just twice every 20 days for roots and buds to come and a little pinch of microelemnts since 24 years .. I was just wondering if more was needed and the answer in no Jim Lewis wrote: On 23 Nov 2004 it was written: Theo, The answer is not simple. However... I do not grow tropicals, only temperate climate hardy plants in zone 6.5 If one uses a soiless mix (e.g. 80% Turface or similar), Micronutrients are important although more so for some species than others. Micro nutrients are not essential throughout the year. Bonsai use different things at different times of their annual cycle. I use a commercial product called Micromax once per year, in the early spring just as the buds are opening. 1/2 level teaspoon per gallon of soil in the pot gives near miraculous results in the color, quality, and substance of leaves on the bonsai. My observation is taht the trace elements provided are most needed when the new leaves are forming but are of very limited use after the leaves have hardened off. At that point regular fertilizers seem to have enough stuff in them to keep the juices flowing properly. Regular use of micro nutrientscould actually be toxic to some plants. Oh my. I must disagree here. I must. With everything except the first sentence, which is true: The answer is not simple. The chemical life of plants also is not simple and cannot be simplified in one or several brief e-mails -- at least not by me in MY limited understanding. But plants grow ALL year -- even when we say they're dormant they grow a little -- somewhere. And as they do, they use the nutrients they find in the soil to help them grow. Most native soils are well-enough stocked with macro- and micro-nutrients that trees and shrubs almost never need fertilizing, despite the claims of the home-garden-oriented fertilizer manufacturers! Bonsai soil on the other hand, is deficient in nutrients -- almost sterile in many cases. And bonsai soil drains so quickly that any chemicals we add are quickly leached away by our frequent watering. This is why we fertilize at weekly or twice- weekly intervals -- to replace the nutrients that the soil lacks and loses. So bonsai need regular feeding to thrive -- both in macro- and micronutrients. They need NPK, & S generally to grow roots, stems and leaves (not necessarily in that order ;-). The micronutrients (Fe, Mn, Zn, Cu, B, S (tho it usually is considered a macronutrient), and Mo take care of the minutiae of plant life. And they do it all year long! Try withholding iron (Fe, a micronutrient) from a bonsai at any time of year and you will almost immediately begin seeing signs of chlorosis (grow azaleas in alkaline conditions, which prevent uptake of Fe, and see how pale the leaves immediately become). Ditto Manganese, Mn. Lack of other micronutrients affects things you don't see as easily, such things as the thickness of cell walls, the production of enzymes and hormones, and a host of other vital processes in plants. But who am I to argue with "the way it's been done." However, _I_ won't give my plants a jolt of micronutrients once or twice a year; they get them in small doses every time I feed (or *almost* every time, I use fish emulsion sometimes and it lacks many/most? micronutrients) -- which is throughout the year, but less frequently in winter. But as they say: Different strokes. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Jim Lewis wrote:
snip But plants grow ALL year -- even when we say they're dormant they grow a little -- somewhere. snip But as they say: Different strokes. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson Jim: Tell me how to fertilize trees that are under 6" of leaf mulch, a foot of snow, and the soil is frozen solid? ;0} Mine aren't there yet but they will be soon enough! Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
I don't know why we are discussing this; what Jim said is completely
accurate. Bonsai represent a special way of raising plants without natural soil. In such a situation, micronutrients are necessary all year long because the trees have no way to get them unless they are added exogenously. Since bonsai soils don't store much nutrient, the fertilizer needs to be added all the time. NPK fertilizers are meant to add the top 3 limiting nutrients to soils that otherwise DO NOT LACK for fertility. I always use a full fertilizer complement with my bonsai because I keep them in turface, bark and grani-grit, a mixture that lacks micronutrients. Nina, who is putting her trees in winter storage, except that crummy abutilon and her pathetic collection of indoor bonsai. |
On 23 Nov 2004 at 8:05, Nina Shishkoff wrote:
I don't know why we are discussing this; what Jim said is completely accurate. Wow! It had to happen sometime! ;-) But I know why . . . It's 'cause we're basically "garden people." Garden people have never ever been able to pass up the "majic" elixir of the day, week, month, year, or millennium. If it promises pumpkins you can make a coach and four out of they'll buy two batches! And then, of course, they have to pass this "secret" on to their neighbors. That's how Superthrive (among others) stays in business. So many products are sold to home gardeners under totally false premises (if not pretenses) that there oughta be a law. Buyer beware! Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
On 23 Nov 2004 at 8:05, Nina Shishkoff wrote:
I don't know why we are discussing this; what Jim said is completely accurate. Wow! It had to happen sometime! ;-) But I know why . . . It's 'cause we're basically "garden people." Garden people have never ever been able to pass up the "majic" elixir of the day, week, month, year, or millennium. If it promises pumpkins you can make a coach and four out of they'll buy two batches! And then, of course, they have to pass this "secret" on to their neighbors. That's how Superthrive (among others) stays in business. So many products are sold to home gardeners under totally false premises (if not pretenses) that there oughta be a law. Buyer beware! Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Nina
I have not been able to understand why you people do not add natural soil to the Bonsai compost! I don't think it can really create problems when coarse ingredients like turface, grit and bark are there in the mix. Soil provides the basic nutrition to the plants and in fact all flora grow in soil. Or is there some other reason for using the soiless compost? In India we use coarse sand/grit, fertile soil and coarse manure in equal parts and all the plants grow well. Yes we do provide the three meals i.e. breakfast, lunch and dinner. I add organic fertilizer *Sterameal* which is a mixture of bonemeal, hornmeal, hoofmeal, bloodmeal and some more organic ingredients; three times a year, once in spring second time in mid summer and then in autumn. Being a slow release fertilizer, it dissolves slowly providing macro as well as micro elements. Please answer the first sentence. Regards Anil Kaushik Bonsai Club (India) Chandigarh "The City Beautiful" I don't know why we are discussing this; what Jim said is completely accurate. Bonsai represent a special way of raising plants without natural soil. In such a situation, micronutrients are necessary all year long because the trees have no way to get them unless they are added exogenously. Since bonsai soils don't store much nutrient, the fertilizer needs to be added all the time. NPK fertilizers are meant to add the top 3 limiting nutrients to soils that otherwise DO NOT LACK for fertility. I always use a full fertilizer complement with my bonsai because I keep them in turface, bark and grani-grit, a mixture that lacks micronutrients. Nina, who is putting her trees in winter storage, except that crummy abutilon and her pathetic collection of indoor bonsai. ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Anil said:
I have not been able to understand why you people do not add natural soil to the Bonsai compost! There are 3 reasons for this: 1) Bonsai need well-drained conditions above almost everything else, and the kind of non-soil mix we use gives very good drainage. There is almost no way to add soil to a gravel-based potting medium without clogging the air pores. 2) Most of our information on container-growth of plants comes from the nursery industry, and in the US essentially no one uses soil in their container mixes. I just did a survey of what the major Rhododendron growers in the US use for their potting mix, and they all use nonsoil mixes (and their mixes are essentially the same except for the source of bark, which varies regionally). Since full-spectrum fertilizers are readily available, there is no need for a soil component in commercial nurseries. 3) Nonsoil mixes start out with few pathogens, and with a few precautions, can stay disease-free. Mixes that use soil have to be sterilized, and autoclaving soil changes its properties. A few years ago I was involved in a survey of the Pythium flora in greenhouses in the East coast (Pythium is the organism that causes "damping off" and many root rots) and the results of our survey were startlingly different from the results of scientists doing this sort of work 40 years ago. The reason appears to be that most greenhouses now use soilless mix and don't start their plants from seed as much, preferring to buy flats from wholesalers. So the species of Pythium in greenhouses today aren't coming in on soil; they're coming in on the plants. Nina, who uses no soil in her plant experiments, either. |
I guess the climate is different as well the species of trees you grow
and their growing season , most probaly is all year round, or more than in cold climates like Ny or north europe Anil Kaushik wrote: Nina I have not been able to understand why you people do not add natural soil to the Bonsai compost! I don't think it can really create problems when coarse ingredients like turface, grit and bark are there in the mix. Soil provides the basic nutrition to the plants and in fact all flora grow in soil. Or is there some other reason for using the soiless compost? In India we use coarse sand/grit, fertile soil and coarse manure in equal parts and all the plants grow well. Yes we do provide the three meals i.e. breakfast, lunch and dinner. I add organic fertilizer *Sterameal* which is a mixture of bonemeal, hornmeal, hoofmeal, bloodmeal and some more organic ingredients; three times a year, once in spring second time in mid summer and then in autumn. Being a slow release fertilizer, it dissolves slowly providing macro as well as micro elements. Please answer the first sentence. Regards Anil Kaushik Bonsai Club (India) Chandigarh "The City Beautiful" I don't know why we are discussing this; what Jim said is completely accurate. Bonsai represent a special way of raising plants without natural soil. In such a situation, micronutrients are necessary all year long because the trees have no way to get them unless they are added exogenously. Since bonsai soils don't store much nutrient, the fertilizer needs to be added all the time. NPK fertilizers are meant to add the top 3 limiting nutrients to soils that otherwise DO NOT LACK for fertility. I always use a full fertilizer complement with my bonsai because I keep them in turface, bark and grani-grit, a mixture that lacks micronutrients. Nina, who is putting her trees in winter storage, except that crummy abutilon and her pathetic collection of indoor bonsai. ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
But this is a sort of (with)out-of-soil-growing !
Nina Shishkoff wrote: Anil said: I have not been able to understand why you people do not add natural soil to the Bonsai compost! There are 3 reasons for this: 1) Bonsai need well-drained conditions above almost everything else, and the kind of non-soil mix we use gives very good drainage. There is almost no way to add soil to a gravel-based potting medium without clogging the air pores. 2) Most of our information on container-growth of plants comes from the nursery industry, and in the US essentially no one uses soil in their container mixes. I just did a survey of what the major Rhododendron growers in the US use for their potting mix, and they all use nonsoil mixes (and their mixes are essentially the same except for the source of bark, which varies regionally). Since full-spectrum fertilizers are readily available, there is no need for a soil component in commercial nurseries. 3) Nonsoil mixes start out with few pathogens, and with a few precautions, can stay disease-free. Mixes that use soil have to be sterilized, and autoclaving soil changes its properties. A few years ago I was involved in a survey of the Pythium flora in greenhouses in the East coast (Pythium is the organism that causes "damping off" and many root rots) and the results of our survey were startlingly different from the results of scientists doing this sort of work 40 years ago. The reason appears to be that most greenhouses now use soilless mix and don't start their plants from seed as much, preferring to buy flats from wholesalers. So the species of Pythium in greenhouses today aren't coming in on soil; they're coming in on the plants. Nina, who uses no soil in her plant experiments, either. -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Anil Kaushik wrote:
Nina I have not been able to understand why you people do not add natural soil to the Bonsai compost! I don't think it can really create problems when coarse ingredients like turface, grit and bark are there in the mix. snip Please answer the first sentence. Regards Anil Kaushik Bonsai Club (India) Chandigarh "The City Beautiful" Anil: With the encouragement of my wife, the queen of compost, Anita Hawkins, this year I started adding compost to my soil as part of the organic component. I have found that *sifted* compost (note the emphasis) is not dense, but is actually very fluffy and water still drains well from it. It is certainly not the largest part of my soil, generally no more than about a third, but I had pretty good results this year. The more coarse part of my soil is composted bark, turface, and gravel. I am not as strict in measuring it as some are. I have not had any problems with root rot, etc. that could happen if I weren't careful. This provides, I feel, the natural organic elements that the tree is going to look for in nature. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
HI Craig
I agree with your wife I started making compost home made the very best is made with oak leaves or Chestnut leaves this year I had a huge mushroom and few small ones that come out of it the compost is very soft and as you do I will use wuth crushed red lava or granite 3 to 5 mm 1/3 of composta and the rest garnite or lava I already stared with some and roots are very nice and the soil dires accordning as you wish if you dd some bark of sequoia I have few sequoias in my park and 2 has been cut and the bark is available first I sterilize it in steam with microwawes and than I cut it in small dices , according teh mix I do can take 1 week to dry Craig Cowing wrote: Anil Kaushik wrote: Nina I have not been able to understand why you people do not add natural soil to the Bonsai compost! I don't think it can really create problems when coarse ingredients like turface, grit and bark are there in the mix. snip Please answer the first sentence. Regards Anil Kaushik Bonsai Club (India) Chandigarh "The City Beautiful" Anil: With the encouragement of my wife, the queen of compost, Anita Hawkins, this year I started adding compost to my soil as part of the organic component. I have found that *sifted* compost (note the emphasis) is not dense, but is actually very fluffy and water still drains well from it. It is certainly not the largest part of my soil, generally no more than about a third, but I had pretty good results this year. The more coarse part of my soil is composted bark, turface, and gravel. I am not as strict in measuring it as some are. I have not had any problems with root rot, etc. that could happen if I weren't careful. This provides, I feel, the natural organic elements that the tree is going to look for in nature. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ -- MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Thanks for the thumbnail on soil. One subject that needs some thought is
the bark content in one's mix. For years I've been debunking the use of decomposed bark in bonsai soil. Some time ago, Brent Walston came up with his statement that fresh bark is far better. Since I am of the same opinion, I'd like to add my 2c. The size of the bark pieces is much more important than the stage of decay. I use Cedarcide (reg. TM) which comes in various sizes down to 1/4". It can be used right out of the package without sifting, and has its own natural anti-insect protection. It is not decomposed at all, and has never caused any leaching problems for me. It does start to rot after 2 years, but will carry over for 3 in a pinch ... and I guess we all repot by then, anyway. P.S. I have no financial interest in Cedarcide. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nina Shishkoff" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:49 PM Subject: [IBC] Microelemnts ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Jim Lewis wrote: Oh, phoo! You've heard of "safe sex?" We're practicing "Safe Bonsai growing." danger and to know haw to play the right rules is a part of the game too safe .. is like eat syntehtic meat instead of a T bone steak IMHO ! When you add dirt you cannot avoid adding pathogens (unless, of course, you sterilize the dirt, and I know you don't) and, like casual sexual partners and STD, while chances are fairly good that the pathogen you add will NOT hurt your tree, there is the chance that it will. trees always lived in nature and patogenes made them stronger ( the one that survived at least ) and a lot survived and made a strong breed As for compost, GOOD compost is self-sterilized. It gets HOT in a good, well-turned compost pile. Still, compost is pretty fine- grained soil and since it is the product of decay so by definition if it has decay bacteria included in it, your compost will only get finer as time goes on. That clogs up your soil. yes but generally it takes two years to make a good compost I use it after this time when I need repotting It is often forgotten, but roots need more than water and nutrients. They need air. Clogged soil interferes with the provision of air to the roots. yes of course but in real nature you have grit and soil and trees live in the one tehy are fitted to live in .. a seed in a wrong soil wither and die some prefer in calcar some acidic some live in clay or silica others in swamp of course we have , due to the reduced space of a pot to create the ideal place for roots to develope but if we only use non-soil and fertilizers we do a sort of syntetic environment similar to hydroculture but instead of water we use a moist solid medium the non -soil! it is not a normal environment , and beside that patogenes are carried by wind insects animal dejections and whatever unless you grow your bonsais under a glass bell cut form whatever contact with the external world but this is almost possible now or in labs, but not during the centuries before ,and Bonsai art survived patogenes and all different soils and mix Over time, the pine bark we use decomposes bit and actually becomes a kind of soil in our pot. About then, though, we repot. exactly and air does not circulate as well as in the beginning of repotting .. in this way we could grow bonsai in chopped glass grit and add macro and micro elements when needed but would it be to make Bonsai ? :-) a doctor told me lately we are not healty in the meaniong of viruses or desease -free we are filled up with viruses and microbs that cannot develope and kill us as we have immuno defenses but to have tehm we must be in contanct with viruses or micronbs to develope them MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Theo: A big difference is that I don't care much if a tree in the
forest dies of natural causes, but I care a whole lot if any of my bonsai die for any reason. I want much better survival rates than nature, so for me the nature comparison is moot. I'll continue to practice risk management for bonsai. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- Jim Lewis wrote: Oh, phoo! You've heard of "safe sex?" We're practicing "Safe Bonsai growing." From: Theo danger and to know haw to play the right rules is a part of the game too safe .. is like eat syntehtic meat instead of a T bone steak IMHO ! When you add dirt you cannot avoid adding pathogens (unless, of course, you sterilize the dirt, and I know you don't) and, like casual sexual partners and STD, while chances are fairly good that the pathogen you add will NOT hurt your tree, there is the chance that it will. trees always lived in nature and patogenes made them stronger ( the one that survived at least ) and a lot survived and made a strong breed As for compost, GOOD compost is self-sterilized. It gets HOT in a good, well-turned compost pile. Still, compost is pretty fine- grained soil and since it is the product of decay so by definition if it has decay bacteria included in it, your compost will only get finer as time goes on. That clogs up your soil. yes but generally it takes two years to make a good compost I use it after this time when I need repotting It is often forgotten, but roots need more than water and nutrients. They need air. Clogged soil interferes with the provision of air to the roots. yes of course but in real nature you have grit and soil and trees live in the one tehy are fitted to live in .. a seed in a wrong soil wither and die some prefer in calcar some acidic some live in clay or silica others in swamp of course we have , due to the reduced space of a pot to create the ideal place for roots to develope but if we only use non-soil and fertilizers we do a sort of syntetic environment similar to hydroculture but instead of water we use a moist solid medium the non -soil! it is not a normal environment , and beside that patogenes are carried by wind insects animal dejections and whatever unless you grow your bonsais under a glass bell cut form whatever contact with the external world but this is almost possible now or in labs, but not during the centuries before ,and Bonsai art survived patogenes and all different soils and mix Over time, the pine bark we use decomposes bit and actually becomes a kind of soil in our pot. About then, though, we repot. exactly and air does not circulate as well as in the beginning of repotting .. in this way we could grow bonsai in chopped glass grit and add macro and micro elements when needed but would it be to make Bonsai ? :-) a doctor told me lately we are not healty in the meaniong of viruses or desease -free we are filled up with viruses and microbs that cannot develope and kill us as we have immuno defenses but to have tehm we must be in contanct with viruses or micronbs to develope them MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : Just for today... don't worry .....be happy ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Hi Alan
Alan Walker wrote: Theo: A big difference is that I don't care much if a tree in the forest dies of natural causes, but I care a whole lot if any of my bonsai die for any reason. I want much better survival rates than nature, so for me the nature comparison is moot. I'll continue to practice risk management for bonsai. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org the only problems I had were in the evry beginning when I treated bonsais like babies .. and with difficult species like Japanese holly or apples were kept inside home in winther and one serissa .. but the pentaphilla and deshojo palmatum I had and I was really frightened to care them as too important for a beginner survived during 25 years until today the only time I had a problem 4 and 2 years ago was because of a bad making of a pot in fact two pentaphilla pines went twice in there both developed roots decay.. the second has been saved .. and the pot discarded MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Theo
Excellent! You and I are on the same wavelength! I think SYENTHIC cultural practices in US is the result of too much hype created for the readymade (lazy-man's) products by the manufacturers and their agents probably with the motive of making profits. As the mother feed is the best for a baby, likewise mother earth (natural soil) is the best food source for a plant. Highly infected, infested and polluted soil will not support plant life. But where is the need to get such stuff then sterilize or autoclave it! I take good fertilesoil, dry it in the Sun and then sift it through a sieve that has 40 x 40 meshes per sq.inch, to remove the fine dust. Similarly we use well rotted leaf or dung compost after sifting it through 20 x 20 mesh. And adding coarse sharp sand or inert grit to it, the mixture becomes quite porous and easily last one year without clogging. In the next repotting, we recycle the old mixture by sifting it again (to remove the broken fine particles) and mixing it with the fresh mixture in 50-50ratio, adding some broad spectrum organic fertilizer. All plants grow very well in this medium. As for the micro-elements are concerned, these are sufficient in organic fertlisers and soil. Regards Anil Kaushik Bonsai Club (India) Chandigarh "The City Beautiful" Jim Lewis wrote: Oh, phoo! You've heard of "safe sex?" We're practicing "Safe Bonsai growing." danger and to know haw to play the right rules is a part of the game too safe .. is like eat syntehtic meat instead of a T bone steak IMHO ! When you add dirt you cannot avoid adding pathogens (unless, of course, you sterilize the dirt, and I know you don't) and, like casual sexual partners and STD, while chances are fairly good that the pathogen you add will NOT hurt your tree, there is the chance that it will. trees always lived in nature and patogenes made them stronger ( the one that survived at least ) and a lot survived and made a strong breed As for compost, GOOD compost is self-sterilized. It gets HOT in a good, well-turned compost pile. Still, compost is pretty fine- grained soil and since it is the product of decay so by definition if it has decay bacteria included in it, your compost will only get finer as time goes on. That clogs up your soil. yes but generally it takes two years to make a good compost I use it after this time when I need repotting It is often forgotten, but roots need more than water and nutrients. They need air. Clogged soil interferes with the provision of air to the roots. yes of course but in real nature you have grit and soil and trees live in the one tehy are fitted to live in .. a seed in a wrong soil wither and die some prefer in calcar some acidic some live in clay or silica others in swamp of course we have , due to the reduced space of a pot to create the ideal place for roots to develope but if we only use non-soil and fertilizers we do a sort of syntetic environment similar to hydroculture but instead of water we use a moist solid medium the non -soil! it is not a normal environment , and beside that patogenes are carried by wind insects animal dejections and whatever unless you grow your bonsais under a glass bell cut form whatever contact with the external world but this is almost possible now or in labs, but not during the centuries before ,and Bonsai art survived patogenes and all different soils and mix Over time, the pine bark we use decomposes bit and actually becomes a kind of soil in our pot. About then, though, we repot. exactly and air does not circulate as well as in the beginning of repotting .. in this way we could grow bonsai in chopped glass grit and add macro and micro elements when needed but would it be to make Bonsai ? :-) a doctor told me lately we are not healty in the meaniong of viruses or desease -free we are filled up with viruses and microbs that cannot develope and kill us as we have immuno defenses but to have tehm we must be in contanct with viruses or micronbs to develope them MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Hello Anil Anil Kaushik wrote: Theo Excellent! You and I are on the same wavelength! ;-) I think SYENTHIC cultural practices in US is the result of too much hype created for the readymade (lazy-man's) products by the manufacturers and their agents probably with the motive of making profits. probably due to production and to avoid patopgenous that can destroy young breed I read of a Japanese master that when buys some plants in nurseries he knows that are hevily under chemicals to keep them fine so during one year he leaves the new bought plant grow and to get free fo chemical to rebuilt his own defenses I think he is right As the mother feed is the best for a baby, likewise mother earth (natural soil) is the best food source for a plant. Highly infected, infested and polluted soil will not support plant life. But where is the need to get such stuff then sterilize or autoclave it! I take good fertilesoil, dry it in the Sun and then sift it through a sieve that has 40 x 40 meshes per sq.inch, to remove the fine dust. Similarly we use well rotted leaf or dung compost after sifting it through 20 x 20 mesh. And adding coarse sharp sand or inert grit to it, the mixture becomes quite porous and easily last one year without clogging. In the next repotting, we recycle the old mixture by sifting it again (to remove the broken fine particles) and mixing it with the fresh mixture in 50-50ratio, adding some broad spectrum organic fertilizer. All plants grow very well in this medium. yeah I normally steam-sterilize the lava or gravel I use as it comes from soils and places I do not know so I wash and than put in a plastic bag with some water in microwave so I can recicle it over and over again and adding a little old soil plus new home made compost it helps to colonize with *home* bacteria Akadama is getting not only expensive but also degradates quite quickly so I use just a third with lava and the compost for needles I use less compost with maples 30% is ok my coarse lava or gravel is about 4-5 mm and porous so helps in air circulation aftere ripotting the old soil aka + gravel or lava + old compost is sifted the dust is thrown in nature or in my geraniums pots and the solid gravel is washed sterilized and stored for others plants whene needed in months to come As for the micro-elements are concerned, these are sufficient in organic fertlisers and soil. guess so , and anyway there are also in biogold fish emulsion and so on Regards MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
Hello Anil Anil Kaushik wrote: Theo Excellent! You and I are on the same wavelength! ;-) I think SYENTHIC cultural practices in US is the result of too much hype created for the readymade (lazy-man's) products by the manufacturers and their agents probably with the motive of making profits. probably due to production and to avoid patopgenous that can destroy young breed I read of a Japanese master that when buys some plants in nurseries he knows that are hevily under chemicals to keep them fine so during one year he leaves the new bought plant grow and to get free fo chemical to rebuilt his own defenses I think he is right As the mother feed is the best for a baby, likewise mother earth (natural soil) is the best food source for a plant. Highly infected, infested and polluted soil will not support plant life. But where is the need to get such stuff then sterilize or autoclave it! I take good fertilesoil, dry it in the Sun and then sift it through a sieve that has 40 x 40 meshes per sq.inch, to remove the fine dust. Similarly we use well rotted leaf or dung compost after sifting it through 20 x 20 mesh. And adding coarse sharp sand or inert grit to it, the mixture becomes quite porous and easily last one year without clogging. In the next repotting, we recycle the old mixture by sifting it again (to remove the broken fine particles) and mixing it with the fresh mixture in 50-50ratio, adding some broad spectrum organic fertilizer. All plants grow very well in this medium. yeah I normally steam-sterilize the lava or gravel I use as it comes from soils and places I do not know so I wash and than put in a plastic bag with some water in microwave so I can recicle it over and over again and adding a little old soil plus new home made compost it helps to colonize with *home* bacteria Akadama is getting not only expensive but also degradates quite quickly so I use just a third with lava and the compost for needles I use less compost with maples 30% is ok my coarse lava or gravel is about 4-5 mm and porous so helps in air circulation aftere ripotting the old soil aka + gravel or lava + old compost is sifted the dust is thrown in nature or in my geraniums pots and the solid gravel is washed sterilized and stored for others plants whene needed in months to come As for the micro-elements are concerned, these are sufficient in organic fertlisers and soil. guess so , and anyway there are also in biogold fish emulsion and so on Regards MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
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