Hi,

Anyone have a list with the different PH values preferred pro species? How important is it for bonsai to keep the correct PH value? Here in Innsbruck we have a high lime content in our water, does this affect the PH value after a long period?

Thanks for any help

Jo Trojer - RCI President/Coach
Innsbruck - Austria
www.rugby-innsbruck.at

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Jo Trojer wrote:
Hi,

Anyone have a list with the different PH values preferred
pro species? How important is it for bonsai to keep the
correct PH value? Here in Innsbruck we have a high lime
content in our water, does this affect the PH value after
a long period?

Thanks for any help

Jo Trojer - RCI President/Coach Innsbruck - Austria
www.rugby-innsbruck.at

***

Much ado is often made abut pH and bonsai, but except for
ericaceous plants -- Rhododendron, Vaccinium and a few other
flowering, largely evergreen, genera -- the ado is about
nothing much.

Ninety percent of all plants will do fine in a range that
extends a bit on either side of neutral (7 pH). Even water
with a high lime content won't affect that range in the soil
in a well-maintained bonsai -- one whose soil is changed
every 2-3 years and that is fertilized with any regularity
with a balanced fertilizer. And, if you have organic
material in your soil, that will maintain it on the acid
side, or at least neutral. Even azaleas will grow in
neutral soil.

I would not, however, use bonsai soil with a high calcium
carbonate composition or supplement it with lime. If you
know that, for some reason, your soil has a pH of more than
8, adding varying amounts of peat or chopped sphagnum to
your soil should solve the problem. Constant chlorosis is
an _indication_ of pH of 8 or more (7.5 or more in the case
of ericaceous plants).

Someone here has supplied a list of plants' pH requirements
(culled from some bonsai publication) from time to time, but
in MY opinion the list has very little validity for bonsai
since it was developed with field-grown plants in mind. You
should be able to find the list by searching for pH in the
archives.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Per pg. 75 of The Beginner's Guide to American Bonsai by Jerald P.
Stowell (Kodansha, 1978),
"Briefly, the pH requirements of natural vegetation are as follows:
pH less than 3.7: heath or bog thickets
pH 3.7-4.5: tamarack, black spruce, hemlock, aspen, birch
pH 4.5-5.5: the majority of conifers
pH 5.5-6.9: the bulk of deciduous forests
pH 6.9-8.0: neutral to alkaline grasslands
All plants have a pH tolerance within which they will still
survive: for instance, the optimum pH range for the genus Malus (the
apple) is 5.5-6.5. However, they have been found growing in soil that
tests as low, or acidic, as 4.0 and as high, or alkaline, as 8.0."

In my notes I also have a list of the "optimal pH ranges for common
flowers, vegetables, trees, shrubs and grasses commonly planted around
our homes and gardens." This is per the Sunbelt Nursery Group, Inc. If
you have a specific species I might be able to give you a more specific
figure.

Cordially,

Robert J. Baran
Sunset Zone 10



Jo Trojer wrote:
Hi,

Anyone have a list with the different PH values preferred pro species? How important is it for bonsai to keep the correct PH value? Here in Innsbruck we have a high lime content in our water, does this affect the PH value after a long period?

Thanks for any help

Jo Trojer - RCI President/Coach
Innsbruck - Austria
www.rugby-innsbruck.at

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thanks, Robert, for the Ph story. Actually, most plants will tolerate
fertilizer with Phs far from their optimum tolerance, so I don't worry too
much about too high or low on the acidity scale. I think the wide variety
of fertilizers on the market is for the benefit of the manufacturers - not
the growers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Baran"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:31 PM
Subject: [IBC] pH value for bonsai.


Per pg. 75 of The Beginner's Guide to American Bonsai by Jerald P. Stowell
(Kodansha, 1978),
"Briefly, the pH requirements of natural vegetation are as follows:
pH less than 3.7: heath or bog thickets
pH 3.7-4.5: tamarack, black spruce, hemlock, aspen, birch
pH 4.5-5.5: the majority of conifers
pH 5.5-6.9: the bulk of deciduous forests
pH 6.9-8.0: neutral to alkaline grasslands
All plants have a pH tolerance within which they will still survive:
for instance, the optimum pH range for the genus Malus (the apple) is
5.5-6.5. However, they have been found growing in soil that tests as low,
or acidic, as 4.0 and as high, or alkaline, as 8.0."

In my notes I also have a list of the "optimal pH ranges for common
flowers, vegetables, trees, shrubs and grasses commonly planted around our
homes and gardens." This is per the Sunbelt Nursery Group, Inc. If you
have a specific species I might be able to give you a more specific
figure.

Cordially,

Robert J. Baran
Sunset Zone 10



Jo Trojer wrote:
Hi, Anyone have a list with the different PH values preferred pro
species? How important is it for bonsai to keep the correct PH value?
Here in Innsbruck we have a high lime content in our water, does this
affect the PH value after a long period? Thanks for any help Jo Trojer -
RCI President/Coach Innsbruck - Austria www.rugby-innsbruck.at

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Marty said:
Actually, most plants will tolerate
fertilizer with Phs far from their optimum tolerance,

pH problems are mostly *nutrient* problems, and since bonsai growers
frequently fertilize, usually with a full-spectrum chelated fertilizer,
there's not much to worry about.

Nina

Hi all,
I don't write often but thought I should this time.

Marty said:
Actually, most plants will tolerate
fertilizer with Phs far from their optimum tolerance,

pH problems are mostly *nutrient* problems, and since bonsai growers
frequently fertilize, usually with a full-spectrum chelated fertilizer,
there's not much to worry about.

I used to pot my bougies with a mix in which I used white lava rock (it is
not pumice, but something like red lava rock except for the white colour
and with smaller pores). Using this I had too many problems with chlorosis.
Once somebody told me that the problem was the pH due to this white lava
rock and that this had to do with the nutrients uptake. The chlorosis
persisted even when I used chelated iron and/or epsom salts, or when I let
the soil dry out a little bit more. Last year I replaced the white lava
rock and started using the coarse sand that is commonly used for swimming
pool filters and chlorosis stopped suddenly. Since then I have had no
problems with chlorosis again (except during heavy rains and/or
overwatering) and my bougies seem to like this kind of sand which as far as
I know has a neutral pH. I am not very good at chemistry and I might be
wrong regarding the pH-nutrients uptake stuff, but it worked for me.

All the best to you all

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++