Billy wrote in

ct.net.au:

If your not curious what the fuss is about or, if you just
don't care, don't read the book. I mean, if you know where
all the furniture in the room is, why turn on the light?

but, Billy, if the general population is NOT reading the book
& not becoming educated, what difference will it ever make if
*i* know what he says is true?
yes, i have a 7 year old that reads the ingredients lists on
packages & outright refuses to eat/drink anything containing
HFCS. but he's one of how many thousands of 7 year olds?
how is this book going to change how chosing healthy foods is
taught in schools? how is it even going to change what kind of
crap is *served* at schools?
if the only people who are reading his books are people who
already agree & just want confirmation, well, how is that
going to change what the poor can afford to eat?

i'm not arguing that these aren't good, useful books (i have
the new one, but not Omnivore's Dilemma), but i am saying that
they probably aren't reaching those who need to really
understand that preprocessed foods are NOT cheap, healthy
choices. *those* people are frequently too busy to read,
illiterate, non-English speakers, etc.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Billy wrote in

ct.net.au:

If your not curious what the fuss is about or, if you just
don't care, don't read the book. I mean, if you know where
all the furniture in the room is, why turn on the light?

but, Billy, if the general population is NOT reading the book
& not becoming educated, what difference will it ever make if
*i* know what he says is true?
yes, i have a 7 year old that reads the ingredients lists on
packages & outright refuses to eat/drink anything containing
HFCS. but he's one of how many thousands of 7 year olds?
how is this book going to change how chosing healthy foods is
taught in schools? how is it even going to change what kind of
crap is *served* at schools?
if the only people who are reading his books are people who
already agree & just want confirmation, well, how is that
going to change what the poor can afford to eat?

i'm not arguing that these aren't good, useful books (i have
the new one, but not Omnivore's Dilemma), but i am saying that
they probably aren't reaching those who need to really
understand that preprocessed foods are NOT cheap, healthy
choices.
Certainly not when you consider the later health impacts.
*those* people are frequently too busy to read,
illiterate, non-English speakers, etc.
lee
Lee,
I can only use myself as an example. I had no preconceived ideas going
into "Omnivore's Dilemma" except that except that I felt that a lot of
the fiber and nutrients were being left out of processed foods and too
much sugar and fat was going in. "Omnivore's Dilemma" dotted the "I"s
and crossed the "T"s for me. Plus it notes, that some of the nutrients
never made it in, much less got removed latter.

Strides are being made on children's lunch foods around the country.
Whether it is incorporating gardening to teach math, science, nutrition,
and cooking or working with a CSA to provide fresh, wholesome food to
students.

The environmental movement started slowly with Rachel Carson and grew.
The ideas will not always fall on fertile ground. I remember hearing an
inner city activist complain that she could go out in her neighborhood
and by an oz. of junk or crack, or an AK-47 but she couldn't buy an
organic apple. There are groups trying to get healthy food to people who
want it. I'm trying to hook up with a CSA for weekly boxes of veggies to
complement my gardening. Whole Foods poses as the organic equivalent of
industrial food but they in turn, pointed out by Pollan, still don't get
it. Organic milk made by free roaming cows that require an acre each?
Free range chickens that may have a small yard available to them if they
can find it? The schuck and jive and, the full tilt spin is alive and
well in "organic" land. This is also addressed by Pollan. I'm not saying
buy the book. Your library must have it. Request it. Browse it. Then
you'll have your own opinion.

A couple of other books I'd recommend for browsing would be:

Eat He Homegrown Pleasures in a Global Supermarket
by Brian Halweil

The Revolution Will Not Be Microwaved: Inside America's Underground Food
Movements by Sandor Ellix Katz

The "Omnivore's Dilemma" as Pollan sees it is that we can eat so many
different things. Whereas some species are very restricted to what they
can eat, we are nearly unlimited. Pollan argues that, in part, is what
culture is for, to help us make the right food choices. In this country
of diverse cultures, the food culture has become diluted to
insignificance. We can only reconstitute our food culture, if the truths
are nurtured.
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

Bill expounded:

Perhaps too poor to do otherwise.

Nah, I know plenty of well-off people who just plain don't think about
what they eat. They want quick food, not necessarily good food.

Quality comes to mind and what that is is the issue.

True, but quality isn't always pricey.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

In article ,
says...

so, as i suspect, he's just preaching to the choir.

So you"re saying that the choir doesn't need to be preached to?

It is the choir's voices that will make the difference in the end
because the metaphorical choir amplifies the message and has more
influence on and in real life.

On 2/14/08 1:55 PM, in article
, "Billy"
wrote:

In article ,
Cheryl Isaak wrote:

On 2/14/08 9:36 AM, in article
, "Billy"
wrote:

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Billy wrote in

ct.net.au:

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/1...se_of_food_aut
hor_journalis t

February 13, 2008

In Defense of Food: Author, Journalist Michael Pollan on
Nutrition, Food Science and the American Diet

Acclaimed author and journalist Michael Pollan argues that
what most Americans are consuming today is not food but
³edible food-like substances.² His previous book, The
Omnivore¹s Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals, was
named one of the ten best books of 2006 by the New York
Times and the Washington Post. His latest book, just
published, is called In Defense of Food: An Eater¹s
Manifesto.

i dunno... i'd argue with the edible part. "food-like"
certainly covers most prepackaged stuff though.
i wonder though, do the people who *should* read these books
actually read them, or are the readers those who already know
that American prepackaged food is crap read them & just feel
smug? is he reaching the proper audience, or just preaching to
the choir?
lee

Like the man said,"The proof is in the pudding." If your not willing to
try it, I guess you'll never know and, just have to go on wondering.

I've read him (and others in his general vein) in the past. I suspect I'll
nab Omnivore one of these days, but right now, I do my best to feed my
family well and that's all I can do.

C

Hey, that's the best any of us can do but best is also a function of
knowledge. The "Omivore's Dilemma" is not a book from a general vein of
books. "Ommivore's Dilemma" is the new gold standard. Before I read
"Omnivore's Dilemma", I didn't know that insects attacked vegetable
leaves because that is where the nitrogen from "chem ferts" is stored. I
didn't know about phto-nutrients. I didn't realize that we eat more corn
per capita than Mexicans. I didn't understand that impoverished farmers
and poorly fed citizens could track the cause back to Cargill and ADM. I
didn't know the that omega-3 fatty acids in animals were a function of
them eating grasses. I wasn't aware that we could all be eating well, if
the government only put its' price supports behind healthy foods.

Without the knowledge to choose, your just rolling the dice with your
food choices.

The interview with Michael Pollan takes about 32 minutes. Do you have 32
minutes to give to your family's health?

Well, Billy, I knew some of those tidbits, but all. I did know that we
should all eat more fruit and veggies and lay off the white bread and
anything with added chemicals and food tasted better from the farm stand
than the supermarket. But hell Billy, I knew that in the late 70's.

C

In article ,
Cheryl Isaak wrote:

On 2/14/08 1:55 PM, in article
, "Billy"
wrote:

In article ,
Cheryl Isaak wrote:

On 2/14/08 9:36 AM, in article
, "Billy"
wrote:

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Billy wrote in

ct.net.au:

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/1...se_of_food_aut
hor_journalis t

February 13, 2008

In Defense of Food: Author, Journalist Michael Pollan on
Nutrition, Food Science and the American Diet

Acclaimed author and journalist Michael Pollan argues that
what most Americans are consuming today is not food but
³edible food-like substances.² His previous book, The
Omnivore¹s Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals, was
named one of the ten best books of 2006 by the New York
Times and the Washington Post. His latest book, just
published, is called In Defense of Food: An Eater¹s
Manifesto.

i dunno... i'd argue with the edible part. "food-like"
certainly covers most prepackaged stuff though.
i wonder though, do the people who *should* read these books
actually read them, or are the readers those who already know
that American prepackaged food is crap read them & just feel
smug? is he reaching the proper audience, or just preaching to
the choir?
lee

Like the man said,"The proof is in the pudding." If your not willing to
try it, I guess you'll never know and, just have to go on wondering.

I've read him (and others in his general vein) in the past. I suspect I'll
nab Omnivore one of these days, but right now, I do my best to feed my
family well and that's all I can do.

C

Hey, that's the best any of us can do but best is also a function of
knowledge. The "Omivore's Dilemma" is not a book from a general vein of
books. "Ommivore's Dilemma" is the new gold standard. Before I read
"Omnivore's Dilemma", I didn't know that insects attacked vegetable
leaves because that is where the nitrogen from "chem ferts" is stored. I
didn't know about phto-nutrients. I didn't realize that we eat more corn
per capita than Mexicans. I didn't understand that impoverished farmers
and poorly fed citizens could track the cause back to Cargill and ADM. I
didn't know the that omega-3 fatty acids in animals were a function of
them eating grasses. I wasn't aware that we could all be eating well, if
the government only put its' price supports behind healthy foods.

Without the knowledge to choose, your just rolling the dice with your
food choices.

The interview with Michael Pollan takes about 32 minutes. Do you have 32
minutes to give to your family's health?

Well, Billy, I knew some of those tidbits, but all. I did know that we
should all eat more fruit and veggies and lay off the white bread and
anything with added chemicals and food tasted better from the farm stand
than the supermarket. But hell Billy, I knew that in the late 70's.

C

Well, slap yourself on the back. One reason that you may have known it
was the 5-a-day program that was sponsored back then by the government.
Eat 5 portions of fruits or vegetables every day. It didn't say, don't
eat something, which always gets the lobbyists up in a lather. But after
showing marked improvements in nutrition for a very small promotional
budget, the program was de-funded. You can read more about it, if you
wish, in "Food Politics: How the Food Industry Influences Nutrition,
and Health" by Marion Nestle.

Knowledge is based on accessibility. Impeding it doesn't help anyone
except, those who prey on ignorance. As a student I found that I needed
to read a book three times before I truly understood it. Then again, not
all books are for all people. So where do you get your nutritional
information Cheryl, divine revelation, natural smarts, media, or books.
If books, which ones? I'm also interested in what enigma said s/he was
reading.

There seems to be a strong general need for this information, otherwise
nutritional/ecological/moral books wouldn't be selling as strongly as
they have. I'm sure this is at least in part a response to America's
medical profile of being obese, prone to cardiovascular disease,
fatigued, and more and more, type II diabetic.
--

Billy

Bush, Cheney & Pelosi, Behind Bars
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/site/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article . com,
Steve wrote:

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:45:38 -0500, Bill
wrote:

In article ,
"Val" wrote:


The people who are eating faux food are either too ignorant to even know
there's a problem or just too stupid to care.

Val

Perhaps too poor to do otherwise.

Quality comes to mind and what that is is the issue.

Bill

Too poor? Have you seen the prices on packaged foods?
This excuse is just that, an excuse.

I have to agree.
Fresh foods, per lb., are much less expensive than pre-prepared packaged
foods.

My cost at the register goes down drastically when I take home bags full
of fresh produce.
--
Peace, Om

"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have
come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
-- Mark Twain