"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

all these things are interrelated. thank you for reading my rant! :-)
kylie



Current economic dogma says you must have growth around 3% per year for a
healthy economy. Nobody knows how to do it with much less without having
unacceptable unemployment. Thus the current model condemns us to be
constantly expanding: population, energy use, mineral use, land use, must
all
grow indefinitely. Except that obviously in the real world they cannot.

Political systems around the world that reward short term popularity and
punish long term planning don't help.

we know that the current model doesn't help - it's getting the beancounters
& other bottom-feeders to accept that is the problem. the first world govt
to actively remake the situation is going to be everyone's hero.

of course, most govts that have a great idea are invaded by the u.s. &
crushed for the next 50 years ;-)
kylie

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:59:33 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:


of course, most govts that have a great idea are invaded by the u.s. &
crushed for the next 50 years ;-)
kylie


Hey, you need to update! We are now on the Hundred Year Plan. Our
Repugnican candidate, John McCentury is talking a hundred years in
Iraq.

truly?! my goodness.

Got Oil!

(er, won't all the oil be gone by then?)


Foo, we yanks, gonna grab it all. All for us and none for others.

**** me, hurry and put us out of our misery and save yerselves.

Charlie

well, not to rain on your parade, but self-hating americans are nearly as
tedious as the other kind! g! i know, it hurts to realise that nothing
about yourselves is unique or particularly interesting in either a good or a
bad sense, but you'll manage :-)

have you seen our spiffy new prime minister creating necessary, yet polite
and pleasant, runctions in china? what a one he is!! i don't know that the
general public actually _likes_ him or not, but my word, there is a great
deal to be admired. sometimes he makes my jaw drop right off my head. you
want to find yourselves someone more like that. (obama?)
kylie

In article ,
"0tterbot" wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:59:33 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:


of course, most govts that have a great idea are invaded by the u.s. &
crushed for the next 50 years ;-)
kylie


Hey, you need to update! We are now on the Hundred Year Plan. Our
Repugnican candidate, John McCentury is talking a hundred years in
Iraq.

truly?! my goodness.

Got Oil!

(er, won't all the oil be gone by then?)


Foo, we yanks, gonna grab it all. All for us and none for others.

**** me, hurry and put us out of our misery and save yerselves.

Charlie

well, not to rain on your parade, but self-hating americans are nearly as
tedious as the other kind! g! i know, it hurts to realise that nothing
about yourselves is unique or particularly interesting in either a good or a
bad sense, but you'll manage :-)
I beg to differ with you 0tterbot. We Americans seem to live in a
strange state of schizophrenia. Most people who meet us find that we can
be charming and thoughtful, yet most people would say that our
government is self-serving at best, and at worst, criminal. We consume
25% of the worlds energy and presently have plans to continue fouling
the air that you breath by extracting fossil fuel from oil shale and tar
sands long after the Saudi wells run dry. Global warming just may be a
new marketing opportunity;-) Our government, with our tax dollars,
spends 40% of the worlds budget on weapons. That means that we are a
bunch of dangerous motherf***ers. We are also the world largest arms
suppliers, so any war is a good war for us:-) You, my friend, have no
control over the 800 lb. gorilla in the cage with you, we do, and don't
exercise it. I am always impressed that a six month old child from
anywhere sounds and acts the same. We are all born equal (no nation has
a monopoly on saints or sinners) but the tribe that we are born into
determines our personal power and pecking order. We, the Americans, are
in a position to exert pressure on that gorilla. Charlie, was selflessly
ignoring his tribe, and beseeching his brothers and sister of our
species to save humanity. Can you imagine his hubris?


have you seen our spiffy new prime minister creating necessary, yet polite
and pleasant, runctions in china? what a one he is!! i don't know that the
general public actually _likes_ him or not, but my word, there is a great
deal to be admired. sometimes he makes my jaw drop right off my head. you
want to find yourselves someone more like that. (obama?)
kylie
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

"0tterbot" wrote in message

have you seen our spiffy new prime minister creating necessary, yet polite
and pleasant, runctions in china? what a one he is!! i don't know that
the general public actually _likes_ him or not, but my word, there is a
great deal to be admired. sometimes he makes my jaw drop right off my
head. you want to find yourselves someone more like that. (obama?)

There's something about Obama that I feel is a bit plastic. Dunno what it
is but I just haven't warmed to him.

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:28:55 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:
have you seen our spiffy new prime minister creating necessary, yet polite
and pleasant, runctions in china? what a one he is!! i don't know that
the
general public actually _likes_ him or not, but my word, there is a great
deal to be admired. sometimes he makes my jaw drop right off my head. you
want to find yourselves someone more like that. (obama?)
kylie


What? He's sucking up to the new big money since our economy is going
down the shitter? What a louse. :-)

no, i meant that sincerely!! i am very impressed. it's not many p-m.s who
can or would tell the chinese (in mandarin) that they have a few human
rights issues!


You're right. I am not sure about obama, as far as his policies are
concerned, but, damn, the boy has charisma and is fast on his feet.
*If* things were to go as he portarys, perhaps you all would love us
again. But one must always ask, who really controls the show?

well, don't ask me!

i also think yanks have an over-inflated idea of how much they were ever
loved in the first instance g
kylie

"0tterbot" wrote in message
Charlie wrote in message

What? He's sucking up to the new big money since our economy is going
down the shitter? What a louse. :-)

no, i meant that sincerely!! i am very impressed. it's not many p-m.s who
can or would tell the chinese (in mandarin) that they have a few human
rights issues!

I agree that seeing him talking directly to the Chinese was very impressive.
I dont think too many world leaders would have the range of languages that
he does. But I do think they have to get off their arses and start doing
something.

Since they've taken over the role as the Government, they've probably only
sat for about 4 weeks. Not enough to do a bloody thing of use, yet.


You're right. I am not sure about obama, as far as his policies are
concerned, but, damn, the boy has charisma and is fast on his feet.

The trouble with 'charismatic' leaders is that the instant people see
through the 'charisma', they drop like a ton of lead. I'm not yet convinced
that Obama has anything of substance. Hillary does, but she certainly has
baggage.

*If* things were to go as he portarys, perhaps you all would love us
again. But one must always ask, who really controls the show?

i also think yanks have an over-inflated idea of how much they were ever
loved in the first instance g

:-)) It does tend to come as a surprise to many Americans that they aren't
universally loved, but I do think that Charlie might be an exception to that
grouping as he seems to have made an effort to look beyond his borders.

It's not so difficult to understand such a mind set if you think of us
having 300 million people on our continent - imagine trying to keep up with
current affairs within the nation in that circumstance, let alone trying to
know what is going on in the rest of the world. Add to that being the most
powerful nation on earth and it must be a bit of a heady mix.

I've always thought that we were extraordinarily lucky to be where we are
and what we are. We're a piddling little, unimportant nation stuck at what
other nations see as being the bottom of the world, but that works to our
benefit. We take in news and media from all sorts of nations and because we
all feel that we are isolated, we travel, and for our size, we travel a lot.

Love Kevin,
Love his approach, but lets face it.
You cant change course overnight re change of government.
It seemed to me that the Libs were acting as if they knew what was
around the corner before they lost the plot.
With pipelines being blown up, English oil workers on strike, they have
all the excuses to have every ones budgets blow sky high.
Better be careful in investing, except locally.
French Truffles look like a good market to be in...
Weather had better shape up this season.
We will all be in trouble.
Seems like the government knows this, and so restricting what
supermarkets are doing to farmers prices. And about time too....
Re human right issues, we may have a few locally too, with our natives.
Thats the pommy influence of past generations.
Lets get it right this time.




FarmI wrote:
"0tterbot" wrote in message
Charlie wrote in message

What? He's sucking up to the new big money since our economy is going
down the shitter? What a louse. :-)
no, i meant that sincerely!! i am very impressed. it's not many p-m.s who
can or would tell the chinese (in mandarin) that they have a few human
rights issues!

I agree that seeing him talking directly to the Chinese was very impressive.
I dont think too many world leaders would have the range of languages that
he does. But I do think they have to get off their arses and start doing
something.

Since they've taken over the role as the Government, they've probably only
sat for about 4 weeks. Not enough to do a bloody thing of use, yet.
You're right. I am not sure about obama, as far as his policies are
concerned, but, damn, the boy has charisma and is fast on his feet.

The trouble with 'charismatic' leaders is that the instant people see
through the 'charisma', they drop like a ton of lead. I'm not yet convinced
that Obama has anything of substance. Hillary does, but she certainly has
baggage.

*If* things were to go as he portarys, perhaps you all would love us
again. But one must always ask, who really controls the show?

i also think yanks have an over-inflated idea of how much they were ever
loved in the first instance g

:-)) It does tend to come as a surprise to many Americans that they aren't
universally loved, but I do think that Charlie might be an exception to that
grouping as he seems to have made an effort to look beyond his borders.

It's not so difficult to understand such a mind set if you think of us
having 300 million people on our continent - imagine trying to keep up with
current affairs within the nation in that circumstance, let alone trying to
know what is going on in the rest of the world. Add to that being the most
powerful nation on earth and it must be a bit of a heady mix.

I've always thought that we were extraordinarily lucky to be where we are
and what we are. We're a piddling little, unimportant nation stuck at what
other nations see as being the bottom of the world, but that works to our
benefit. We take in news and media from all sorts of nations and because we
all feel that we are isolated, we travel, and for our size, we travel a lot.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...

I agree that seeing him talking directly to the Chinese was very
impressive. I dont think too many world leaders would have the range of
languages that he does. But I do think they have to get off their arses
and start doing something.

Since they've taken over the role as the Government, they've probably only
sat for about 4 weeks. Not enough to do a bloody thing of use, yet.

well no, but what can you do in just 4 weeks? :-)

i do, however, think that symbolic actions are important (in terms of
getting us all moving on to where we are going) & there's been a lot of
that. actual sitting time isn't set by govts, so what can one do? in the
meantime, i love the way they are going through like a dose of salts. we
NEEDED it!

also, i am secretly shallow so keep that in mind when i say: i hate his
ties. he never wears a tie i like. his taste in ties is absolutely foul.
something should be done..!

but i can forgive a bad tie in someone who i sincerely believe is all set to
do the right things, not awful things like ahem did.

You're right. I am not sure about obama, as far as his policies are
concerned, but, damn, the boy has charisma and is fast on his feet.

The trouble with 'charismatic' leaders is that the instant people see
through the 'charisma', they drop like a ton of lead. I'm not yet
convinced that Obama has anything of substance. Hillary does, but she
certainly has baggage.

all i can really say on this subject (like i even CARE!) is that neither of
them (none of them!) could be worse than the incumbent.

*If* things were to go as he portarys, perhaps you all would love us
again. But one must always ask, who really controls the show?

i also think yanks have an over-inflated idea of how much they were ever
loved in the first instance g

:-)) It does tend to come as a surprise to many Americans that they
aren't universally loved, but I do think that Charlie might be an
exception to that grouping as he seems to have made an effort to look
beyond his borders.

charlie is noice. :-)

having said that, any country probably has a majority of nice (in their way)
individuals. it's how they act collectively that matters, in many ways. that
seems to be the problem with the farcical olympic torch business - most
chinese people are lovely, but the govt there is appalling. i think some
chinese are feeling rather oppressed in a personal way by the protests when
it's actually a governmental thing that shouldn't be taken personally.

It's not so difficult to understand such a mind set if you think of us
having 300 million people on our continent - imagine trying to keep up
with current affairs within the nation in that circumstance, let alone
trying to know what is going on in the rest of the world. Add to that
being the most powerful nation on earth and it must be a bit of a heady
mix.

I've always thought that we were extraordinarily lucky to be where we are
and what we are. We're a piddling little, unimportant nation stuck at
what other nations see as being the bottom of the world, but that works to
our benefit. We take in news and media from all sorts of nations and
because we all feel that we are isolated, we travel, and for our size, we
travel a lot.

i think obscurity is great. not to mention, necessary.
kylie

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
I agree that seeing him talking directly to the Chinese was very
impressive. I dont think too many world leaders would have the range of
languages that he does. But I do think they have to get off their arses
and start doing something.

Since they've taken over the role as the Government, they've probably
only sat for about 4 weeks. Not enough to do a bloody thing of use, yet.

well no, but what can you do in just 4 weeks? :-)

Sweet Fester Arbuckle, but they really have to do something PDQ when they do
sit again because it's now stretching out a bit too long.

i do, however, think that symbolic actions are important (in terms of
getting us all moving on to where we are going) & there's been a lot of
that. actual sitting time isn't set by govts,

It is actually. I think it's the Gov't Whip who sets it but if not, then at
least someone in the Government.

so what can one do? in the
meantime, i love the way they are going through like a dose of salts. we
NEEDED it!

No doubt about that. A major purging.

also, i am secretly shallow so keep that in mind when i say: i hate his
ties. he never wears a tie i like. his taste in ties is absolutely foul.
something should be done..!

:-)) and Therese needs a bit of fashion advice too :-))

but i can forgive a bad tie in someone who i sincerely believe is all set
to do the right things, not awful things like ahem did.

You're right. I am not sure about obama, as far as his policies are
concerned, but, damn, the boy has charisma and is fast on his feet.

The trouble with 'charismatic' leaders is that the instant people see
through the 'charisma', they drop like a ton of lead. I'm not yet
convinced that Obama has anything of substance. Hillary does, but she
certainly has baggage.

all i can really say on this subject (like i even CARE!) is that neither
of them (none of them!) could be worse than the incumbent.

Tut tut. I'm sure you do care as I can't imagine that you could possibly
approve of the invasion of Iraq based on falsified information.

As allies and the richest most powerful nation on earth, when dumb decisions
are made there by a very thick President, it impacts way beyond their
borders. Look at all the shit we were fed so we too would happily (choke)
send troops to Iraq too. The one thing I will give Howard is that although
he looked like he was always supporting Bush, he was very careful about his
commitment to Iraq in terms of troop location adn numbers, not that we could
send too many anyway given our other international commitments.


*If* things were to go as he portarys, perhaps you all would love us
again. But one must always ask, who really controls the show?

i also think yanks have an over-inflated idea of how much they were ever
loved in the first instance g

:-)) It does tend to come as a surprise to many Americans that they
aren't universally loved, but I do think that Charlie might be an
exception to that grouping as he seems to have made an effort to look
beyond his borders.

charlie is noice. :-)

Shhhhh. Don't let him hear you say that or he'll get a swelled head!

having said that, any country probably has a majority of nice (in their
way) individuals. it's how they act collectively that matters, in many
ways.

Yes. I still have not forgiven most of our compatriots about the Tampa.
The majority seem to be a bunch of idiots given how often I heard the line
about 'queue jumping'.

that
seems to be the problem with the farcical olympic torch business - most
chinese people are lovely, but the govt there is appalling.

Yep, but so was ours till the end of last year :-))

i think some
chinese are feeling rather oppressed in a personal way by the protests
when it's actually a governmental thing that shouldn't be taken
personally.

It's not so difficult to understand such a mind set if you think of us
having 300 million people on our continent - imagine trying to keep up
with current affairs within the nation in that circumstance, let alone
trying to know what is going on in the rest of the world. Add to that
being the most powerful nation on earth and it must be a bit of a heady
mix.

I've always thought that we were extraordinarily lucky to be where we are
and what we are. We're a piddling little, unimportant nation stuck at
what other nations see as being the bottom of the world, but that works
to our benefit. We take in news and media from all sorts of nations and
because we all feel that we are isolated, we travel, and for our size, we
travel a lot.

i think obscurity is great. not to mention, necessary.

Yup! Long may we continue to have it (says she with a sore arm - I got my
Chloera and Typhoid shots today for our impending trip :-((()

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...

well no, but what can you do in just 4 weeks? :-)

Sweet Fester Arbuckle, but they really have to do something PDQ when they
do sit again because it's now stretching out a bit too long.

hm, i tend to think that they are, somewhat. i don't know. everything
happens at a glacial pace anyway! i'm not sure how quickly things CAN
happen, never mind "should".

i do, however, think that symbolic actions are important (in terms of
getting us all moving on to where we are going) & there's been a lot of
that. actual sitting time isn't set by govts,

It is actually. I think it's the Gov't Whip who sets it but if not, then
at least someone in the Government.

but is there not a common sitting length over the year? & it's not 52 weeks,
we all know that!! they just don't sit that much - they're often just not
there, because (i assume) it's not practical to do so anyway. i don't know
the ins & outs of it, but i'd be frankly concerned if some new govt decided
to sit 40 weeks a year. while they're sitting, they're not thinking of what
they need to do & talking to people about it, they're debating (& whatnot)
stuff which has been decided while they _weren't_ sitting.

that's what i meant.

also, i am secretly shallow so keep that in mind when i say: i hate his
ties. he never wears a tie i like. his taste in ties is absolutely foul.
something should be done..!

:-)) and Therese needs a bit of fashion advice too :-))

well she does, but she's not the prime minister so i'm not about to start
criticising her. :-)

all i can really say on this subject (like i even CARE!) is that neither
of them (none of them!) could be worse than the incumbent.

Tut tut. I'm sure you do care as I can't imagine that you could possibly
approve of the invasion of Iraq based on falsified information.

i didn't, i don't.

but i don't give a flying **** who the president of the usa is, & that's the
truth!! :-D whether i care or not i can't do anything about it, so i
therefore don't invest any energy in caring about any of them.

honestly, all we are seeing is the bush effect - nobody in the world wants
to see anyone like that in power again, EVER. however, since none of us can
do anything about it, it's a mystery to me that anyone need pay attention
until it happens. truly, they WILL let us know once there's been an
election, i'm sure :-) no amount of fussing about it now is going to change
anything, even though such a person will always do their overweening best to
make it the problem of the rest of the world, kwim? bush is a problem for
all 6 billion people on earth, & nobody wants that to happen again. but
since the next one will be another american, s/he is still going to be our
problem (just hopefully a much lesser problem). :-)

As allies and the richest most powerful nation on earth, when dumb
decisions are made there by a very thick President, it impacts way beyond
their borders. Look at all the shit we were fed so we too would happily
(choke) send troops to Iraq too. The one thing I will give Howard is that
although he looked like he was always supporting Bush, he was very careful
about his commitment to Iraq in terms of troop location adn numbers, not
that we could send too many anyway given our other international
commitments.

i think even rabid ideologues like howard were (grudgingly) aware of how his
incessant arse-licking of such an unworthy person reflected badly upon
himself. so he's doomed to be always associated with words like mean,
tricky, and cunning. nobody ever said he was stupid - he's not. but that
doesn't mean he was not the sole instrument of his own downfall - he was.
the creepy little control freak. you get that when you're one-eyed.

charlie is noice. :-)

Shhhhh. Don't let him hear you say that or he'll get a swelled head!

he may not be able to fit his gardening hat on!!

having said that, any country probably has a majority of nice (in their
way) individuals. it's how they act collectively that matters, in many
ways.

Yes. I still have not forgiven most of our compatriots about the Tampa.
The majority seem to be a bunch of idiots given how often I heard the line
about 'queue jumping'.

oh dear. i think the truth is that most people worldwide are "a bunch of
idiots". truly. the modern world is ridiculously complicated & lots of
people simply can't keep up. that doesn't make them unlikeable, unkind or
unworthy - it's just something you need to keep in mind. i don't know that
there's any place left for people who just aren't smart or who are
unprepared to think. they're being left behind. tbh i'm not sure what (if
anything) could or should be done about it.

in the olden days, most people were chattel, peasants or serfs. these days,
they have the same rights as the ruling class & expect that things are
equal, but things aren't equal & won't ever be, because people aren't equal.
an un-thought-out opinion is not equal to a well-thought-out opinion, is it?
but modern democratic types expect everyone to have a say, based on the
assumption (i suppose) that if a person is required to make a decision,
they'll probably put some thought into it, since it is going to affect them.
thus we try to drag each other up through the primordial slime :-) it kind
of works, doesn't it?

that
seems to be the problem with the farcical olympic torch business - most
chinese people are lovely, but the govt there is appalling.

Yep, but so was ours till the end of last year :-))

to be fair to them, they weren't executing their own populace in droves, &
stuff like that.
i think obscurity is great. not to mention, necessary.

Yup! Long may we continue to have it (says she with a sore arm - I got my
Chloera and Typhoid shots today for our impending trip :-((()

ow!

but see, i'm a pretty smart person (mostly ;-) yet i find it inconceivable
that things like typhoid still exist!! it's hard for us to move outside our
own brain & own experience, isn't it?
kylie

Charlie wrote in message
news
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:25:19 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:


charlie is noice. :-)

Well now, that was a noice thing to say! ;-) Thank you......wait a
minute....unless this is some aussie slang thing that has a different
meaning than I took! ;-)

well, not really!

having said that, any country probably has a majority of nice (in their
way)
individuals. it's how they act collectively that matters, in many ways.
that
seems to be the problem with the farcical olympic torch business - most
chinese people are lovely, but the govt there is appalling. i think some
chinese are feeling rather oppressed in a personal way by the protests
when
it's actually a governmental thing that shouldn't be taken personally.

Herd mentality is bad, bad I'm tellin' ya! It leads to stampede and
the *******s could sweep us all over the cliff, though this may not be
an entirely bad thing, given the condition of the planet and our
contribution to the.....situations. I am thinking that the herd is
starting to awake here...the "news" is reflecting this today, and the
bleating has started....."gov't must helppp, gov't must helpppp".

**** me, bush is again pushing to open the anwr to drilling. The only
solution to the oil situation is to retool our society and QUIT DRIVING
SO DAMN MUCH!

I fear it going to get ugly. It is for sure going to
become...different.

probably. but really, i think that's not a bad thing (overall!). the
disaster that forces one's hand to better things isn't really so bad. you
have to take the broad view. everyone has to suffer sometimes, it's
inevitable.

i think obscurity is great. not to mention, necessary.
kylie


I think you have that right and should count your blessing....I've got
300 million members of the herd to worry about!

i'd be worried too if i were you g
kylie

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:14:17 -0500, Charlie wrote:

Hey, you need to update! We are now on the Hundred Year Plan. Our
Repugnican candidate, John McCentury is talking a hundred years in Iraq.
Got Oil!

They call themselves the Project for a New American Century for a reason.