In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:



Ahhh! It is obvious from your posting history you don't take the time to
read and certainly don't use higher order thinking skills to put facts
together. IN this case again, you didn't read the data you so quickly
endorsed, did ya? Typical Billy, then you try to cover your tracks with
pure unadulterated BS and more links you still didn't read. Google is not
your friend Billy. As well, I have to laugh about your use of the word use
"citations" as well as the way you attempt to "bait" someone. You have
obviously have a lot of practice on the playground.

If you would have read and verified the PAN site you would know PAN uses
the USDA's PDP test data, a fact they talk about in several places, in fact
WOMF specifically
references they use the PDP and the PesticideInfo.Org ( which is also
themselves). On their PesticideInfo.Org site they state they use the PDP
and a few other source references most of which are again FED papers of some
agency or other. So once again the database traces back to the PDP as the
primary source of all the data used by PAN. Now how bizarre is that !
Because of my training and experiences I have to ask why? I can't come up
with anything other than they just another 501 c. 3. looking for money,
scare money is pretty easy to get from the uninformed.
so here is your "citation" (In my business its source or reference ) , check
out the page:
Apple Sauce
... snipped...

Footnotes
1. Tests for any given food are often conducted in multiple years. In all
cases WhatsOnMyFood shows...snipped...

2. All pesticide residue results on this page and elsewhere on the
WhatsOnMyFood website were obtained by the United Stated Department of
Agriculture (USDA) Pesticide Data Program (PDP)
http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/acknowledgements.jsp

METHODOLOGY
Q: What data is shown here and where did it come from?
A: USDA¹s Pesticide Data Program (PDP) cross-referenced with toxicology1
data from EPA and other authoritative listings.
http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/methodology.jsp

Great, since it's government information, you shouldn't have a problem
with it;O)

TOXICOLOGY: MAKING SENSE OF PESTICIDES
What¹s On My Food? also contains toxicological information for most
pesticides tested by USDA, and for many of the pesticide residues
(chemicals found on foods that may be different from the actual
pesticides used). The toxicological information here is pulled from
www.PesticideInfo.org, a comprehensive database that we've developed and
maintained for ten years.

3. Punzi, JS, Lamont, M, Haynes, D, Epstein, RL, USDA Pesticide Data
Program: Pesticide Residues ...snipped...

4. All toxicological data was either compiled for this site - typically from
U.S. EPA reregistration eligibility decisions - or obtained from data
compiled for the PesticideInfo website

Here, let me further help you do your research, this is the summary of the
2007 report PAN used for their pie chart website presentation:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getf...TELPRDC5074338
2007 data, published Dec 2008

Certainly makes me glad that I grow as much as I can. I'll read it when
I can but it still doesn't answer the questions below.

"PDP analyzed 11,683 samples of fresh and processed food commodities in
2007, excluding groundwater and drinking water. Overall, the percent of
residues detected (the number of residues detected divided by the total
number of analyses performed for each commodity) was 1.9 percent. Over 99
percent of the samples analyzed did not contain residues above the safety
limits (tolerances) established by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) and 96.7 percent of the samples analyzed did not contain residues for
pesticides that had no tolerance established."
The EPA under Bush was a joke and we all know that the USDA isn't to aid
consumers, it's meant to aid agriculture (marketers).


Seem like we got an Ivory Snow report card Billy, 99%!!!!! so go back to
that little pie chart fluff, ground clutter thingies and verify that none
exceed the
allowable safe limits. Not a one Billy, not a one should exceed the EPA
limits, ok maybe the one%.
1% of what? How much does it take before there is a response? A response
to the one isolated chemical, or to the stew of chemicals in the food
chain and in the environment??
http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/whatisbb.htm

Bottom line.... PAN just downloaded the USDA data base, framed it, added
some whirligigs to get your attention and poof ....Its magic,.... please
send your dollars to support our important research.

Again, understand the data presented. This is presented in a very
prejudicial
manner, designed to alarm. "OMG this has pesticides on it!" Americans do
not seem to understand the nature of statistics, especially about
measurements of
parts per billion (ppb), for reference 1ppb is equal to 1 minute in 2000
years
And dioxin is measured in femtograms (10^-15 g). Which would equal
6 millionths of a sec.

I recommended Dr. Bruce Ames, the noted Microbiologist for you to read
Yes, and the renowned Frederick Seitz said that "Global Warming" isn't
man made. Yada, yada, yada. There are lots of scientists. You have to
take a poll and measure their quality.
because his research on cancers and carcinogenicity are world renown. But
since you don't do much more than goggle and wiki, here is a synopsis link
for you to scoff at:
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/05/sc...e-n-ames-stron
g-views-on-origins-of-cancer.html?pagewanted=1
or http://tinyurl.com/nkltzn.

I will warn you, like most of your "citations", this reference is a bit
old
1994? you might say so.
but still very relevant to what he has discovered especially if you can find
other writings using his works. Most all his papers
are locked up behind password access but you can certainly write to him on
his website and ask for copies. I find most Profs want to share, well
perhaps except when you slanderously infer them a corporate shrill with your
unique style of research.
Lots of cow patties out the
EXCLUSIVEŠPentagon Pundits: New York Times Reporter David Barstow Wins
Pulitzer Prize for Exposing Military¹s Pro-War Propaganda Media Campaign
Pundits-double-web

In his first national broadcast interview, New York Times reporter David
Barstow speaks about his 2009 Pulitzer Prize-winning expose of the
Pentagon propaganda campaign to recruit more than seventy-five retired
military officers to appear on TV outlets as military analysts ahead of
and during the Iraq war. This week, the Pentagon inspector general¹s
office admitted its exoneration of the program was flawed and withdrew
it.
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/8...imes_reporter_
david

Climate Expert Says NASA Tried to Silence Him
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/29/sc...29climate.html

Lots of people are playing fast and loose with critical facts. I just
reads them the way that I sees them.


Just remember most here do understand and endorse being green, It is just
the fringe lunacy gets a bit much with you. Certainly the co-mingling of
extraneous " citations"
doesn't help your cause.
The governors of West Virginia always call me an environmental
extremist. You¹ve got to be an extremist in order to achieve things.
You¹ve got to be ready to make enemies in order to accomplish something.
And it¹s absolutely necessary that the people here today continue to
demonstrate against this highly destructive practice.

- REP. KEN HECHLER (94 years old)

"The only congressman who marched with Martin Luther King in Selma,
Alabama, was this hillbilly from West Virginia . ."
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/29/coal


Good luck in your quest for the holy grail.

My best to you this new day Billy.

Gunner
In all lies there is wheat among the chaff...
- A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
"I've been accused of vulgarity. I say that's bullshit."
-- Mel Brooks
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Ames

http://potency.berkeley.edu/MOE.html

Bruce is going on 81 and has done good work. That said science has a
difficult time adding up total exposure and the possible impact. I'd
hazard a guess that our immune systems are strengthened and weakened by
impact of all our sensual imputes.

Best practice is to try to do well be well with what we think we know.

Gardening and invoking mother nature I believe is a good thing. Belief
system raises it complexities. Love and gratefulness for sustenance
primary sometimes expressed as saying grace in one way or another.

Looking at the fancy Ames graph I noticed no mention of Alpha or Beta
Naphthalene which caused a hot spot for bladder cancer in Pennsville
NJ. Rural area with A Dupont Plant providing employment not far from
here it smelled like death and it was the most frequent sample turned
over to the next shift. .

Exposure to harmful or helpful mediums seem to be secretive. Vit D,
Vit K and Resveratrol along with family interaction seems good.
Allopathy good for burns and accidents only. Yea that¹s me. YMMV. Fresh
home nibbling has to be superior but I may be wrong. Energy more
direct in a way from the earth and sun.

Bill whose sister is a MD and Husband a Virologist.

Small birds happy singing or protecting.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
-Philo of Alexandria

http://www.youtube.com/usnationalarchives

"Bill who putters" wrote in message
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Ames

http://potency.berkeley.edu/MOE.html

Bruce is going on 81 and has done good work. That said science has a
difficult time adding up total exposure and the possible impact. I'd
hazard a guess that our immune systems are strengthened and weakened by
impact of all our sensual imputes.

Best practice is to try to do well be well with what we think we know.


No doubt. I am hoping they get the operating manual and troubleshooting
guide on Man written soon..

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

snipped
I think you should talk to your Primary Care about tapering off the Lithium.
There are better class of drugs these days for your condition. Hopefully one
of them can balance your mood swings and attention span out a bit better.
With the proper care and counseling you should make a full recovery.

I'm serious when I say good luck with that Billy.

Charlie wrote in message
news
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:20:00 -0700, "gunner"
wrote:


"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

snipped
I think you should talk to your Primary Care about tapering off the
Lithium.
There are better class of drugs these days for your condition. Hopefully
one
of them can balance your mood swings and attention span out a bit better.
With the proper care and counseling you should make a full recovery.

I'm serious when I say good luck with that Billy.


Oh very good, the meds insult (always very funny and insightful),
right before somehow working in a Nazi reference.

Oh wait, so sorry, I did......Godwin's Law invoked.

Charlie

So YOU can make sense out of his rambling BS and the stupid wiki links or
you just a fan of his?

Regardless that was rich Charlie , I will try to work that one in the next
time. I'm sure there will be more BS coming out of eco fringe element .
It almost is like an OCD.

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:48:20 -0500, Charlie wrote:


Seriously, Gunny...your insults are juvenile, (along with those of the
rest of the people in this thread who made similar pejorative remarks
about people with whom they disagree and don't understand, people who
may not always play well with the rest of you kids) with your
references to mental illnesses and meds and loons and such.

I'm sorry, I said this thread when I meant to indicate the other group
and that thread in which you and bob and kate and mic were holding
forth.

You can attribute this oversight, or mistake, to lack of medication
and ability to clarify thoughts, if you choose, Gunny.

Charlie

Charlie, I aint no Gunny. I 'm a Gunner, a Warrant Officer. I was an E7
Promotable (9 years) when I was appointed, then commissioned RA 6 months
later. Army also, but I was adopted because of so many joint assignments.

BTW, Dr of sorts... no! but I do understand more than a bit of MH issues.
FWIW I am a licensed counselor in WA State, well for the next month anyway,
getting too expensive to stay current when you are doing free work. I have
been the Court Appointed Guardian for 3 MH persons so far and as an advocate
working issues for a few others over the years, I have been an advocate
working for the last year an a half on a host of issues ranging from the
IRS, INS, The State of CA, the Federal Government, Medicare/Medicaid and 3
Insurance companies for this one person. as well as dealing with 5 doctors.
She is
Bi Polar since teens. last year she went down that road and I didn't think
she was coming back this time.
Was talking to the IRS for a couple of hours just Yesterday AM on her
issues.

I am not the Dr guy one needs, I 'm the guy that plowed through the
bureaucracy
and get stuff done my friend so they can get to the Dr guy. As you can
perhaps sense, I don't win a lot
of brownie points for style, but I get a job done in record time. So you
may feel that I am
insensitive,.... I do not..., may not be considered PC, but a far cry from
being insensitive to the plight of other.

I do apologize to you if you are afflicted and felt dissed. That you came
to
his defense, good on you so I will tell you first, I am going to break up
with him, he is getting way too needy and honestly, I think he is seeing
another NG.

Who is Kaiser? mein Fuhrer? Are you talking
growing Meds? as in Humbolt Co, or the other holistic ayurveda thing such
as for Diabetes? Regardless, Use caution with the Shaman craft.

As far as defending Billy, and Bill, he/they are capable of that
themselves and need not my defense. What I will do is stand shoulder
to shoulder with them and throw rock.

No one is on Bill's ass, he did help Martin, kinda. This is all Billy's
doing.

Like I said, good you show your Bud some support and I would like to
believe you really standup for the underdog. I see no one did for Martin
( florabloom)
Standing silent it not standing up, Charlie and you know that. Your man has
a CS Bully personality.

Billy ain't figured this one out as yet. This is childish play, you bet,
but has he answered the question, Of course not, because he cannot. it is a
lie and he is weasling on it.

Yet this is all been for Nilly Billy's chicken shit attack he pulled on
Florabloom. He lied and then attacked an innocent. You stand shoulder to
shoulder to that?

Now he is caught up in it. He coulda got away with his pathological lying,
hell, a few of his "citations" he googles are worth reading and he has got
some folks believing his BS or too scared to say otherwise, don't know which
one, don't care but to launch into a diatribe such as he did and
attack a FNG for asking a question? naaa. No man gets to do that without
some consequence.
Florabloom played nice and he didn't get ANY support from this group.

You can't give a pass on this one Charlie and mean what you said about being
a advocate.

Stand in,..... stand down......... all the same to me Charlie.

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:35:06 -0700, "gunner"
wrote:


As far as defending Billy, and Bill, he/they are capable of that
themselves and need not my defense. What I will do is stand shoulder
to shoulder with them and throw rock.

You pick and choose and selectively delete most of the reply to
continue your argument with Billy. My reply was to clarify things
between us, not necessarily to further your argument with Billy.


No one is on Bill's ass, he did help Martin, kinda.

Not so. You aren't on Bill's ass, but not so. I already pointed to
references in the other group. Big picture, Gunner, big picture. You
are a big picture guy, aren't you?

This is all Billy's
doing.
Like I said, good you show your Bud some support and I would like to
believe you really standup for the underdog.

"I would like to believe that you really standup for the underdog" ?

There you go again with your condescension and insinuating that I lie
and twist the meaning and application of advocacy.

I would like to believe that you are not condescending, demeaning and
more arrogant then I, but I'm having trouble with that, Gunner.

I see no one did for Martin
( florabloom)
Standing silent it not standing up, Charlie and you know that. Your man has
a CS Bully personality.

Let's not demean Billy nor I by calling him "my man", or making
yourself look like some kind of antediluvian. Whose "man" are you?
Shall I speculate upon this? Shall we comment upon your personality?
Or mine? Again, let's not use me to further your problem with Billy.

Standing silent it not standing up, Charlie and you know that.

Really? And for whom should we stand up? And against whom should we
stand when we believe a horrendous wrong has been committed? And
against whom do we throw rock? And whose convictions and beliefs are
we to accept, or have shoved down our throats or up our butts in order
to stand up for the right people? Do we really want to go there,
Gunner?

Should we go into the role of America and the death and misery it has
dealt to so many innocents and the roles which each of us played in
that death-dealing and misery for so many decades?

Shall we go into the the fact that Our Constituton has been shredded
and what exactly are those who took The Oath to Defend going to do
about this?

Do you want to encourage all this standing up, for which those of us
who do "stand up" here are soundly criticized for being OT?. Makes me
no nevermind, I'm ready to go anytime.



Billy ain't figured this one out as yet. This is childish play, you bet,
but has he answered the question, Of course not, because he cannot. it is a
lie and he is weasling on it.

Of course this baited game of yours is childish play, yet you've
opened the gate for more serious play.

You've neglected to address your eco lunatic fringe remarks as of yet,
more denigration of those who believe differently than you.

'Twas ever thus.


Yet this is all been for Nilly Billy's chicken shit attack he pulled on
Florabloom. He lied and then attacked an innocent. You stand shoulder to
shoulder to that?

Why must you persist in using belittling terms/name-calling? BTW, you
want to talk about BIG lying and BIG attacking innocents and BIG death
and horror? Do you support that of which I insinuate?

You ignore, or choose not to understand, that for which I stand
shoulder to shoulder with Billy, and you continue to frame your
replies to suit your needs and try to put words in my mouth.

Chickenshit attacks? New here, aren't you? I don't see you defending
people from attacks by shel and his ilk. So let's not be giving me
the rundown and lessons.


Now he is caught up in it. He coulda got away with his pathological lying,
hell, a few of his "citations" he googles are worth reading and he has got
some folks believing his BS or too scared to say otherwise, don't know which
one, don't care but to launch into a diatribe such as he did and
attack a FNG for asking a question? naaa. No man gets to do that without
some consequence.

Really? That is bullshit and gets into areas that lie outside the
scope of the supposed discussion of this newsgroup, discussions for
which we are regularly chastised.

BTW, ifn's ya don't care, why ya' be speculating and diagnosing Billy
so often, Hmm?

Florabloom played nice and he didn't get ANY support from this group.

Yeah, like this is is really important life stuff. You chose to take
it to a higher level.

And....good on ya' for chastising all the rest of the posters here
that aren't standup folk like yourself. Lot's of folk around the
world play nice and get napalmed and droned for it.


You can't give a pass on this one Charlie and mean what you said about being
a advocate.

Can't I? That is a BS statement and you know it. Must I advocate on
the behalf of every downtrodden and ****ed-over individual of whom I
am aware or whom I am indicated?

I stated that I advocate for those that are unable and/or unwilling to
advocate for themselves....and you know damn well I meant, so let's
not distort it. Life stuff, not bullshit Usenet slights and slurs and
all that happy horseshit.

Again, you are opening a can of shit stew into which I am not going to
go into any further with you.


Stand in,..... stand down......... all the same to me Charlie.


Only two options, Boss?

......... all the same to me Gunner.

Charlie

The problem is Charlie is that you're being real, and gunnie is just
gamin'. If you presented him with 6 megapixel reality, he would just
say,"Who you gonna beleive, me, or your own lyin' eyes". He's like the
Black Knight from Monty Python's "Holy Grail".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno

He really isn't worth your time, Charlie. You can't go after every dog
that barks at you.

He doesn't know the English language.
He doesn't know how to frame an argument.
When presented with overwhelming evidence from two internationally
recognized experts, first he says he'll prove them wrong, then he
realizes the task that he has set for himself, and, instead, wants you
to re-invent the wheel. And when backed into a corner he
moves the goal posts, equivocates, and obfuscates.
The only thing that he has going for him is the good will of the people
he argues with.
He is obviously a self made loner.
**** on him.

And will you come back to the garden, Charlie? The cabbages miss you;O)
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://www.map-uk.org/regions/opt/news/view/-/id/348/
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

sometime in the recent past Billy posted this:
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:35:06 -0700, "gunner"
wrote:

As far as defending Billy, and Bill, he/they are capable of that
themselves and need not my defense. What I will do is stand shoulder
to shoulder with them and throw rock.
You pick and choose and selectively delete most of the reply to
continue your argument with Billy. My reply was to clarify things
between us, not necessarily to further your argument with Billy.

No one is on Bill's ass, he did help Martin, kinda.
Not so. You aren't on Bill's ass, but not so. I already pointed to
references in the other group. Big picture, Gunner, big picture. You
are a big picture guy, aren't you?

This is all Billy's
doing.
Like I said, good you show your Bud some support and I would like to
believe you really standup for the underdog.
"I would like to believe that you really standup for the underdog" ?

There you go again with your condescension and insinuating that I lie
and twist the meaning and application of advocacy.

I would like to believe that you are not condescending, demeaning and
more arrogant then I, but I'm having trouble with that, Gunner.

I see no one did for Martin
( florabloom)
Standing silent it not standing up, Charlie and you know that. Your man has
a CS Bully personality.
Let's not demean Billy nor I by calling him "my man", or making
yourself look like some kind of antediluvian. Whose "man" are you?
Shall I speculate upon this? Shall we comment upon your personality?
Or mine? Again, let's not use me to further your problem with Billy.

Standing silent it not standing up, Charlie and you know that.
Really? And for whom should we stand up? And against whom should we
stand when we believe a horrendous wrong has been committed? And
against whom do we throw rock? And whose convictions and beliefs are
we to accept, or have shoved down our throats or up our butts in order
to stand up for the right people? Do we really want to go there,
Gunner?

Should we go into the role of America and the death and misery it has
dealt to so many innocents and the roles which each of us played in
that death-dealing and misery for so many decades?

Shall we go into the the fact that Our Constituton has been shredded
and what exactly are those who took The Oath to Defend going to do
about this?

Do you want to encourage all this standing up, for which those of us
who do "stand up" here are soundly criticized for being OT?. Makes me
no nevermind, I'm ready to go anytime.


Billy ain't figured this one out as yet. This is childish play, you bet,
but has he answered the question, Of course not, because he cannot. it is a
lie and he is weasling on it.
Of course this baited game of yours is childish play, yet you've
opened the gate for more serious play.

You've neglected to address your eco lunatic fringe remarks as of yet,
more denigration of those who believe differently than you.

'Twas ever thus.

Yet this is all been for Nilly Billy's chicken shit attack he pulled on
Florabloom. He lied and then attacked an innocent. You stand shoulder to
shoulder to that?
Why must you persist in using belittling terms/name-calling? BTW, you
want to talk about BIG lying and BIG attacking innocents and BIG death
and horror? Do you support that of which I insinuate?

You ignore, or choose not to understand, that for which I stand
shoulder to shoulder with Billy, and you continue to frame your
replies to suit your needs and try to put words in my mouth.

Chickenshit attacks? New here, aren't you? I don't see you defending
people from attacks by shel and his ilk. So let's not be giving me
the rundown and lessons.

Now he is caught up in it. He coulda got away with his pathological lying,
hell, a few of his "citations" he googles are worth reading and he has got
some folks believing his BS or too scared to say otherwise, don't know which
one, don't care but to launch into a diatribe such as he did and
attack a FNG for asking a question? naaa. No man gets to do that without
some consequence.
Really? That is bullshit and gets into areas that lie outside the
scope of the supposed discussion of this newsgroup, discussions for
which we are regularly chastised.

BTW, ifn's ya don't care, why ya' be speculating and diagnosing Billy
so often, Hmm?

Florabloom played nice and he didn't get ANY support from this group.
Yeah, like this is is really important life stuff. You chose to take
it to a higher level.

And....good on ya' for chastising all the rest of the posters here
that aren't standup folk like yourself. Lot's of folk around the
world play nice and get napalmed and droned for it.

You can't give a pass on this one Charlie and mean what you said about being
a advocate.
Can't I? That is a BS statement and you know it. Must I advocate on
the behalf of every downtrodden and ****ed-over individual of whom I
am aware or whom I am indicated?

I stated that I advocate for those that are unable and/or unwilling to
advocate for themselves....and you know damn well I meant, so let's
not distort it. Life stuff, not bullshit Usenet slights and slurs and
all that happy horseshit.

Again, you are opening a can of shit stew into which I am not going to
go into any further with you.

Stand in,..... stand down......... all the same to me Charlie.

Only two options, Boss?

......... all the same to me Gunner.

Charlie

The problem is Charlie is that you're being real, and gunnie is just
gamin'. If you presented him with 6 megapixel reality, he would just
say,"Who you gonna beleive, me, or your own lyin' eyes". He's like the
Black Knight from Monty Python's "Holy Grail".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno

He really isn't worth your time, Charlie. You can't go after every dog
that barks at you.

He doesn't know the English language.
He doesn't know how to frame an argument.
When presented with overwhelming evidence from two internationally
recognized experts, first he says he'll prove them wrong, then he
realizes the task that he has set for himself, and, instead, wants you
to re-invent the wheel. And when backed into a corner he
moves the goal posts, equivocates, and obfuscates.
The only thing that he has going for him is the good will of the people
he argues with.
He is obviously a self made loner.
**** on him.
But as my grandfather used to say, "Never get in a ****ing contest with a
skunk."

And will you come back to the garden, Charlie? The cabbages miss you;O)


--
Wilson N44º39" W67º12"