In article ,
"songbird" wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
All brain farts, and not one citation. Good luck with that.

you quote the whole thing for a one
line reply?

oh, ok, Billy, i see your comprehension
is down, read again where i said i composted
my reply off-line.

i have a very slow connection, i do
not watch tv or load audio via internet
unless it's the rare thing i want to wait
hours to accomplish, usually i cannot
tie up the phone line for that length of
time.

i'm mostly here to converse and
read about gardening, i'll try to have
fun in the process. most of what
you write in reply i am aware of and
actually agree with in some parts, if
you'd read it you'd see. yet there
are large gaps even in that time will
show. poking at them is just the
way i am.

now can you tell me what happened
to the art of general shooting the shit?
it sure isn't about quoting links back
and forth.

good day,


songbird

Shooting the shit is fine, but without authority, it is just babbling,
and logic is only as good as its premise.
You quoted links?
Citation please.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://radwisdom.com/essays/this-is-your-brain/

Billy wrote:
....
Shooting the shit is fine, but without authority, it is just babbling,

today's authority is sometimes
wrong. i worked for 7 people
who were authorities and they
were a lost cause. and so i
don't trust authorities blindly
and find most popular works
too light on rigor...

because of that i have been
trying to get a hold of more
studious works lately. i was
reading a college level plant
physiology textbook a few
weeks ago and it ignored
so many topics and instead focused
on the pet topics of the various
contributors.

don't get me wrong, it was a
good book for me to read but
it was very incomplete and i was
afraid that many students who had
this as their only plant physiology
book would be missing so much.

now i am looking for other
good reads, so recommend away
and i will line some of them up
and see what they have to offer.


and logic is only as good as its premise.

if it's valid.


You quoted links?

only those you included, but
many i did not follow because
i was offline (as i am now).


Citation please.

tossing citations back and
forth with no personal interpretation
on your part isn't a conversation.

tell me when you cite a
link what it means to you
and how it is lived by you.
otherwise you are a shadow
boxer.

do you garden? how do
you garden? what do you
garden?

or i am here to babble then.


songbird

In article ,
"songbird" wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
Shooting the shit is fine, but without authority, it is just babbling,

today's authority is sometimes
wrong. i worked for 7 people
who were authorities and they
were a lost cause. and so i
don't trust authorities blindly
and find most popular works
too light on rigor...

Great, so to counter balance lack of rigor, you offer none? What do you
use to justify your beliefs on up and down, good and bad, right or wrong?

because of that i have been
trying to get a hold of more
studious works lately. i was
reading a college level plant
physiology textbook a few
weeks ago and it ignored
so many topics and instead focused
on the pet topics of the various
contributors.

You were reading an anthology by various authors writing about subjects
that they supposedly would know the most?


don't get me wrong, it was a
good book for me to read but
it was very incomplete and i was
afraid that many students who had
this as their only plant physiology
book would be missing so much.

You expected all of plant physiology in one book? Kinda makes you wonder
what the other 40 units were all about.

now i am looking for other
good reads, so recommend away
and i will line some of them up
and see what they have to offer.


and logic is only as good as its premise.

if it's valid.


You quoted links?
Citation please.

only those you included, but
many i did not follow because
i was offline (as i am now).

You argue, but give no supporting authority: divine revelation, inspired
intuition, bull shit? Who knows? You offer no argument for your
denigration of organic food.




tossing citations back and
forth with no personal interpretation
on your part isn't a conversation.

Since we haven't done the original work, it's my authorities against
your authorities.

tell me when you cite a
link what it means to you
and how it is lived by you.
otherwise you are a shadow
boxer.

lame
do you garden? how do
you garden? what do you
garden?
I thought we were talking about the irrelevance of organic food. Why are
you wandering off, or are you jut trying to change the subject?

or i am here to babble then.

Looks like it.


songbird
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
...
Shooting the shit is fine, but without authority, it is just
babbling,

today's authority is sometimes
wrong. i worked for 7 people
who were authorities and they
were a lost cause. and so i
don't trust authorities blindly
and find most popular works
too light on rigor...

Great, so to counter balance lack of rigor, you offer none? What do
you use to justify your beliefs on up and down, good and bad, right
or wrong?

any study of the history of
science is rigor enough for
the basic arguement i've made
here.


because of that i have been
trying to get a hold of more
studious works lately. i was
reading a college level plant
physiology textbook a few
weeks ago and it ignored
so many topics and instead focused
on the pet topics of the various
contributors.

You were reading an anthology by various authors writing about
subjects that they supposedly would know the most?

it was a textbook called _Plant Physiology_
so i expected a broad overview of
plant physiology, but they missed a lot
of stuff that should be in a basic PP book.

i'm glad it was detailed as it was in some
parts, but it completely ignored many basic
plant phenomena. so i need to find some
other text that gets those covered.

i've quoted it below so you know
which text i'm speaking of.


don't get me wrong, it was a
good book for me to read but
it was very incomplete and i was
afraid that many students who had
this as their only plant physiology
book would be missing so much.

You expected all of plant physiology in one book? Kinda makes you
wonder what the other 40 units were all about.

a college level text should have a
broad overview of all aspects of
plant physiology even if there is not
depth of coverage of some areas it
should at least be mentioned and the
basics outlined.

here i will give you a link and
see if you agree.

http://4e.plantphys.net/categories.php?t=t

i think the following is a more
balanced work:

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyT...HEP000221.html

but i haven't read it yet. i'm putting it
on my request list at the library today.

still that looks to be also set
up for talking about only certain
kinds of plants and my interests
are in other forms which don't
seem to be covered by either of
these books. i'm going to have
to keep looking...

ah, much better:

http://www.amazon.com/Physiology-Flo.../dp/0444874984

that's on my list now. i think i'll
bump this ahead of the last since i've
already been through most of that
already.


now i am looking for other
good reads, so recommend away
and i will line some of them up
and see what they have to offer.


and logic is only as good as its premise.

if it's valid.


You quoted links?
Citation please.

only those you included, but
many i did not follow because
i was offline (as i am now).

You argue, but give no supporting authority: divine revelation,
inspired intuition, bull shit? Who knows? You offer no argument for
your denigration of organic food.

denigration? no, no way,
healthy skepticism towards
the new priesthood yes.


tossing citations back and
forth with no personal interpretation
on your part isn't a conversation.

Since we haven't done the original work, it's my authorities against
your authorities.

hold it, original work would
mean what here? nutritional
studies which include liver
function tests? long term
liver cancer rates vs
life span increases? (which
is probably available but
not really accurate enough
because it's not pre-agrichem).


tell me when you cite a
link what it means to you
and how it is lived by you.
otherwise you are a shadow
boxer.

lame

no, i just want to see if you
live what you quote.


do you garden? how do
you garden? what do you
garden?

I thought we were talking about the irrelevance of organic food. Why
are you wandering off, or are you jut trying to change the subject?

irrelevance? i don't think i've
ever said that organic gardening is
irrelevant, what i have said is that
it's wise to keep some healthy
skepticism.


songbird

In article ,
"songbird" wrote:

now i am looking for other
good reads, so recommend away
and i will line some of them up
and see what they have to offer.

"Vegetable Gardener' Bible" by Edward C. Smith.
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gard...Gardening/dp/1
580172121/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815454&sr=1-1

"How to Grow More Vegetables" by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/...=search-alias%
3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=How+to+Grow+More+Vegetables&x=0&y=0

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture
(Paperback)
by Toby Hemenway
http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...ulture/dp/1603
580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1

Creative Propagation [Illustrated] (Paperback)
by Peter Thompson (Author), Owen Josie (Illustrator)
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Propa...dp/0881926817/
ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273249143&sr=1-1

Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides) (Paperback) by Stu Campbell
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158..._p14_i1?pf_rd_
m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1HT31JNNBYN5BXFZS2EA&pf_rd_t=101
&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan

http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385
83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1

In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto
by Michael Pollan
http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Food-E...114964/ref=sr_
1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238974366&sr=1-1

Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply
by Vandana Shiva
http://www.amazon.com/Stolen-Harvest...y/dp/089608607
0/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238974474&sr=1-10

What to Eat
by Marion Nestle
http://www.amazon.com/What-Eat-Mario...ref=sr_1_1?ie=
UTF8&s=books&qid=1238974909&sr=1-1

Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies About the
Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating (Paperback)
by Jeffrey M. Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Seeds-Deceptio...y-Engineered/d
p/0972966587/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247180992&sr=1-1
€ ISBN-10: 0972966587
€ ISBN-13: 978-0972966580

Food Politics: How the Food Industry Influences Nutrition, and Health,
Revised and Expanded Edition (California Studies in Food and Culture)
by Marion Nestle
http://www.amazon.com/Food-Politics-...lifornia/dp/05
20254031/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244222934&sr=1-2
€ ISBN-10: 0520254031
€ ISBN-13: 978-0520254039

American Pests: The Losing War on Insects from Colonial Times to DDT
by James E. McWilliams
http://www.amazon.com/American-Pests...l/dp/023113942
X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238975011&sr=1-1

General Viticulture
by A. J. Winkler, James A. Cook, W. M. Kliewer, Lloyd A. Lider
http://www.amazon.com/General-Viticu...025911/ref=sr_
1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238975081&sr=1-1

The Fatal Harvest Reader by Andrew Kimbrell
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_...stripbooks&fie
ld-keywords=fatal+harvest+reader&sprefix=Fatal+Ha

Seed to Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable
Gardeners,
by Suzanne Ashworth and Kent Whealy
http://www.amazon.com/Seed-Growing-T...deners/dp/1882
424581/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238951517&sr=1-1


1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus : Charles C. Mann
http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelatio...mbus/dp/140003
2059/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269536235&sr=1-1

Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science
of Diet and Health
~ Gary Taubes
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-...ce/dp/14000334
62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267036694&sr=1-1

The World Without Us (Paperback)
by Alan Weisman
http://www.amazon.com/World-Without-...2427905/ref=sr
_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274206221&sr=1-1


Related

The Revolution will not be Microwaved
by Sandor Ellix Katz
http://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Wil...round/dp/19333
92118/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218128128&sr= 1-1
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene