"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there is 450ac
of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods make a sizeable
contribution to the farm, it produces much pig feed and biomass that is
used for a variety of purposes and assists in other ways. So to be more
accurate the above production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional means. The
comparison would be very difficult to make fair I think because the
conventional system uses many external inputs and would have trouble
matching that diversity of outputs. I suspect that just measured in
calories per acre the intensive monoculture might win. The whole point of
this is that you can only do that for a limited amount of time with many
inputs and many unwanted side effects. Not to mention that man does not
live by bread (or high fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the quality of
life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me, have seen intensive
operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any cages on the
place with the exception of a row of 10 where she used to put birds that
were off colour and needed to be taken away from the bullying tactics of the
rest of the flock. In the 50s and 60s when other poultry farmers were
moving to cages and proud of it, we were free ranging. We once had a city
person come back to us and complain about the eggs they bought off us.
According to them, the eggs were 'off' and had to be thrown out because they
had 'very yellow yolks'.

FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there is
450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods make a
sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig feed and
biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and assists in other
ways. So to be more accurate the above production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I think
because the conventional system uses many external inputs and would
have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I suspect that
just measured in calories per acre the intensive monoculture might
win. The whole point of this is that you can only do that for a
limited amount of time with many inputs and many unwanted side
effects. Not to mention that man does not live by bread (or high
fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me, have
seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook sheds for
meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a shed with a dirt
floor with just enough room to move between the feed and the water. Lights
on half the night to get them to eat more. The workers wear breathing
apparatus to clean out the sheds and it will make you puke at 400m on a hot
night. The eagles dine well on those who get trodden under. Nuff said.

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any cages
on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she used to put
birds that were off colour and needed to be taken away from the
bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the 50s and 60s when
other poultry farmers were moving to cages and proud of it, we were
free ranging. We once had a city person come back to us and complain
about the eggs they bought off us. According to them, the eggs were
'off' and had to be thrown out because they had 'very yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just pellet chook
food. A question that you would know, is the yellow yolk still such an
indicator or is it emulated these days by diet additives?


David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there is
450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods make a
sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig feed and
biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and assists in other
ways. So to be more accurate the above production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I think
because the conventional system uses many external inputs and would
have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I suspect that
just measured in calories per acre the intensive monoculture might
win. The whole point of this is that you can only do that for a
limited amount of time with many inputs and many unwanted side
effects. Not to mention that man does not live by bread (or high
fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me, have
seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook sheds for
meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a shed with a dirt
floor with just enough room to move between the feed and the water.
Lights on half the night to get them to eat more. The workers wear
breathing apparatus to clean out the sheds and it will make you puke at
400m on a hot night. The eagles dine well on those who get trodden under.
Nuff said.


Indeed. I've been to a feed lot and I had the same reaction although this
was probably one of the better run ones. I'd turn vegetarian if our local
buthcer sourced his meat at places like that but I can see his 'feed lot'
(for want of a better description as it's jsut his farm) from the road and
his cattle have quite a nice spot for the final finish on feed before they
take the trip to the abattoir. (sp?)

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any cages
on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she used to put
birds that were off colour and needed to be taken away from the
bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the 50s and 60s when
other poultry farmers were moving to cages and proud of it, we were
free ranging. We once had a city person come back to us and complain
about the eggs they bought off us. According to them, the eggs were
'off' and had to be thrown out because they had 'very yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just pellet chook
food. A question that you would know, is the yellow yolk still such an
indicator or is it emulated these days by diet additives?

That is one of those 'it depends' answers as in, it depends ont he feed.

If you feed them on kitchen scraps (not recommended as that isn't nutritious
enough) then free ranging (as opposed to keeping confined) will change the
colour of the yolk. Pellets contain a yellowing agent, but apparently that
yellow isn't carried through so that in baked goods show up the yellowing.
Yolks that are yellow as a result of the feed they find outside does hang on
through the baking process so that the baked goods (like say a butter cake)
will appear more yellow. I've not done these tests myself but there was a
long article on it (with comparative pics) in one of the 'Australasian
Poultry' mags a couple of years ago. A great little magazine and as cheap
as chips.

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there is
450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods make a
sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig feed and
biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and assists in other
ways. So to be more accurate the above production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I think
because the conventional system uses many external inputs and would
have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I suspect that
just measured in calories per acre the intensive monoculture might
win. The whole point of this is that you can only do that for a
limited amount of time with many inputs and many unwanted side
effects. Not to mention that man does not live by bread (or high
fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me, have
seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook sheds for
meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a shed with a dirt
floor with just enough room to move between the feed and the water.
Lights on half the night to get them to eat more. The workers wear
breathing apparatus to clean out the sheds and it will make you puke at
400m on a hot night. The eagles dine well on those who get trodden under.
Nuff said.


Indeed. I've been to a feed lot and I had the same reaction although this
was probably one of the better run ones. I'd turn vegetarian if our local
buthcer sourced his meat at places like that but I can see his 'feed lot'
(for want of a better description as it's jsut his farm) from the road and
his cattle have quite a nice spot for the final finish on feed before they
take the trip to the abattoir. (sp?)

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any cages
on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she used to put
birds that were off colour and needed to be taken away from the
bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the 50s and 60s when
other poultry farmers were moving to cages and proud of it, we were
free ranging. We once had a city person come back to us and complain
about the eggs they bought off us. According to them, the eggs were
'off' and had to be thrown out because they had 'very yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just pellet chook
food. A question that you would know, is the yellow yolk still such an
indicator or is it emulated these days by diet additives?

That is one of those 'it depends' answers as in, it depends ont he feed.

If you feed them on kitchen scraps (not recommended as that isn't nutritious
enough) then free ranging (as opposed to keeping confined) will change the
colour of the yolk. Pellets contain a yellowing agent, but apparently that
yellow isn't carried through so that in baked goods show up the yellowing.
Yolks that are yellow as a result of the feed they find outside does hang on
through the baking process so that the baked goods (like say a butter cake)
will appear more yellow. I've not done these tests myself but there was a
long article on it (with comparative pics) in one of the 'Australasian
Poultry' mags a couple of years ago. A great little magazine and as cheap
as chips.

Besides having a yoke that looks like an apricot, instead of a lemon,
real eggs have a viscosity to them that factory produced eggs don't.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there
is 450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods
make a sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig
feed and biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and
assists in other ways. So to be more accurate the above
production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I
think because the conventional system uses many external inputs
and would have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I
suspect that just measured in calories per acre the intensive
monoculture might win. The whole point of this is that you can
only do that for a limited amount of time with many inputs and
many unwanted side effects. Not to mention that man does not
live by bread (or high fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me, have
seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook
sheds for meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a
shed with a dirt floor with just enough room to move between the
feed and the water. Lights on half the night to get them to eat
more. The workers wear breathing apparatus to clean out the sheds
and it will make you puke at 400m on a hot night. The eagles dine
well on those who get trodden under. Nuff said.


Indeed. I've been to a feed lot and I had the same reaction
although this was probably one of the better run ones. I'd turn
vegetarian if our local buthcer sourced his meat at places like that
but I can see his 'feed lot' (for want of a better description as
it's jsut his farm) from the road and his cattle have quite a nice
spot for the final finish on feed before they take the trip to the
abattoir. (sp?)

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any cages
on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she used to
put birds that were off colour and needed to be taken away from the
bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the 50s and 60s when
other poultry farmers were moving to cages and proud of it, we were
free ranging. We once had a city person come back to us and
complain about the eggs they bought off us. According to them, the
eggs were 'off' and had to be thrown out because they had 'very
yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just pellet
chook food. A question that you would know, is the yellow yolk
still such an indicator or is it emulated these days by diet
additives?

That is one of those 'it depends' answers as in, it depends ont he
feed.

If you feed them on kitchen scraps (not recommended as that isn't
nutritious enough) then free ranging (as opposed to keeping
confined) will change the colour of the yolk. Pellets contain a
yellowing agent, but apparently that yellow isn't carried through so
that in baked goods show up the yellowing. Yolks that are yellow as
a result of the feed they find outside does hang on through the
baking process so that the baked goods (like say a butter cake) will
appear more yellow. I've not done these tests myself but there was
a long article on it (with comparative pics) in one of the
'Australasian Poultry' mags a couple of years ago. A great little
magazine and as cheap as chips.


My food books say the yellow of the yolk is due to xanthophylls which come
from plants, typically lucerne and corn. Not having chook books I do this
backwards. Apparently corn feed is also responsible for the yellow skin and
fat found in some "organic" meat birds.

Besides having a yoke that looks like an apricot, instead of a lemon,
real eggs have a viscosity to them that factory produced eggs don't.

Is the height and viscosity of the egg contents a result of diet and health
of the chook or a sign of freshness, or both? The same ref (McGee 'On Food
and Cooking') says freshness has much to do with it.

Come on chook people - give me the scoop before I build the chook house.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there
is 450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods
make a sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig
feed and biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and
assists in other ways. So to be more accurate the above
production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I
think because the conventional system uses many external inputs
and would have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I
suspect that just measured in calories per acre the intensive
monoculture might win. The whole point of this is that you can
only do that for a limited amount of time with many inputs and
many unwanted side effects. Not to mention that man does not
live by bread (or high fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me, have
seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook
sheds for meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a
shed with a dirt floor with just enough room to move between the
feed and the water. Lights on half the night to get them to eat
more. The workers wear breathing apparatus to clean out the sheds
and it will make you puke at 400m on a hot night. The eagles dine
well on those who get trodden under. Nuff said.


Indeed. I've been to a feed lot and I had the same reaction
although this was probably one of the better run ones. I'd turn
vegetarian if our local buthcer sourced his meat at places like that
but I can see his 'feed lot' (for want of a better description as
it's jsut his farm) from the road and his cattle have quite a nice
spot for the final finish on feed before they take the trip to the
abattoir. (sp?)

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any cages
on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she used to
put birds that were off colour and needed to be taken away from the
bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the 50s and 60s when
other poultry farmers were moving to cages and proud of it, we were
free ranging. We once had a city person come back to us and
complain about the eggs they bought off us. According to them, the
eggs were 'off' and had to be thrown out because they had 'very
yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just pellet
chook food. A question that you would know, is the yellow yolk
still such an indicator or is it emulated these days by diet
additives?

That is one of those 'it depends' answers as in, it depends ont he
feed.

If you feed them on kitchen scraps (not recommended as that isn't
nutritious enough) then free ranging (as opposed to keeping
confined) will change the colour of the yolk. Pellets contain a
yellowing agent, but apparently that yellow isn't carried through so
that in baked goods show up the yellowing. Yolks that are yellow as
a result of the feed they find outside does hang on through the
baking process so that the baked goods (like say a butter cake) will
appear more yellow. I've not done these tests myself but there was
a long article on it (with comparative pics) in one of the
'Australasian Poultry' mags a couple of years ago. A great little
magazine and as cheap as chips.


My food books say the yellow of the yolk is due to xanthophylls which come
from plants, typically lucerne and corn. Not having chook books I do this
backwards. Apparently corn feed is also responsible for the yellow skin and
fat found in some "organic" meat birds.

Besides having a yoke that looks like an apricot, instead of a lemon,
real eggs have a viscosity to them that factory produced eggs don't.

Is the height and viscosity of the egg contents a result of diet and health
of the chook or a sign of freshness, or both? The same ref (McGee 'On Food
and Cooking') says freshness has much to do with it.

Come on chook people - give me the scoop before I build the chook house.

David

Xanthophylls come from plants to be sure, but typically lucerne and
corn? That seems like more of a production setting. They should get the
same thing just scratching on a meadow.

How much land do you have? Does the mobile chicken coop offer you any
advantages? It seems that if you can build top soil à la Salatin, it
would be worth your while, since it would be better at holding water.

All I know from eggs is that we get our eggs from a friend who turns her
chickens out to pasture during the day. They get a supplement to replace
calcium, and to my understanding that is all they get. The eggs are
fresh, and as I said, the yolks are the color of apricots. My biggest
surprise was when I had my blood work done (at least once a year) while
I was eating the eggs, my cholesterol had dropped. The eggs were the
only variable that came to mind.

Anyway, if you look at p.265 in Omnivore's Dilemma, you'll see a
description of "real" eggs, and it is what I'm used to. If we can't get
out friend's eggs, I stop eating eggs.

I don't know what it is with Garden Banter, either. I'm used to Brits in
other groups, and they aren't nearly as, . . uh, rustic as the ones that
we attract.

Later,
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there
is 450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods
make a sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig
feed and biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and
assists in other ways. So to be more accurate the above
production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I
think because the conventional system uses many external inputs
and would have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I
suspect that just measured in calories per acre the intensive
monoculture might win. The whole point of this is that you can
only do that for a limited amount of time with many inputs and
many unwanted side effects. Not to mention that man does not
live by bread (or high fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me,
have seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook
sheds for meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a
shed with a dirt floor with just enough room to move between the
feed and the water. Lights on half the night to get them to eat
more. The workers wear breathing apparatus to clean out the sheds
and it will make you puke at 400m on a hot night. The eagles dine
well on those who get trodden under. Nuff said.


Indeed. I've been to a feed lot and I had the same reaction
although this was probably one of the better run ones. I'd turn
vegetarian if our local buthcer sourced his meat at places like
that but I can see his 'feed lot' (for want of a better
description as it's jsut his farm) from the road and his cattle
have quite a nice spot for the final finish on feed before they
take the trip to the abattoir. (sp?)

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any
cages on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she
used to put birds that were off colour and needed to be taken
away from the bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the
50s and 60s when other poultry farmers were moving to cages and
proud of it, we were free ranging. We once had a city person
come back to us and complain about the eggs they bought off us.
According to them, the eggs were 'off' and had to be thrown out
because they had 'very yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just
pellet chook food. A question that you would know, is the yellow
yolk still such an indicator or is it emulated these days by diet
additives?

That is one of those 'it depends' answers as in, it depends ont he
feed.

If you feed them on kitchen scraps (not recommended as that isn't
nutritious enough) then free ranging (as opposed to keeping
confined) will change the colour of the yolk. Pellets contain a
yellowing agent, but apparently that yellow isn't carried through
so that in baked goods show up the yellowing. Yolks that are
yellow as a result of the feed they find outside does hang on
through the baking process so that the baked goods (like say a
butter cake) will appear more yellow. I've not done these tests
myself but there was a long article on it (with comparative pics)
in one of the 'Australasian Poultry' mags a couple of years ago.
A great little magazine and as cheap as chips.


My food books say the yellow of the yolk is due to xanthophylls
which come from plants, typically lucerne and corn. Not having
chook books I do this backwards. Apparently corn feed is also
responsible for the yellow skin and fat found in some "organic" meat
birds.

Besides having a yoke that looks like an apricot, instead of a
lemon, real eggs have a viscosity to them that factory produced
eggs don't.

Is the height and viscosity of the egg contents a result of diet and
health of the chook or a sign of freshness, or both? The same ref
(McGee 'On Food and Cooking') says freshness has much to do with it.

Come on chook people - give me the scoop before I build the chook
house.

David

Xanthophylls come from plants to be sure, but typically lucerne and
corn? That seems like more of a production setting. They should get
the same thing just scratching on a meadow.


No doubt they would, this was from a food book not an agriculture book.

How much land do you have? Does the mobile chicken coop offer you any
advantages? It seems that if you can build top soil à la Salatin, it
would be worth your while, since it would be better at holding water.


I have toyed with the mobile coop idea. I am quite attracted to the mandala
garden where the coop move around a series of beds but I can't see how to
make it work with the succession of seasonal planting, nor how to make it
fox proof.

All I know from eggs is that we get our eggs from a friend who turns
her chickens out to pasture during the day. They get a supplement to
replace calcium, and to my understanding that is all they get. The
eggs are fresh, and as I said, the yolks are the color of apricots.
My biggest surprise was when I had my blood work done (at least once
a year) while I was eating the eggs, my cholesterol had dropped. The
eggs were the only variable that came to mind.


I will allow my chooks to range over the pasture during the day but first I
have to build a secure coop for them at night or the fox will have them.

Anyway, if you look at p.265 in Omnivore's Dilemma, you'll see a
description of "real" eggs, and it is what I'm used to. If we can't
get out friend's eggs, I stop eating eggs.


I am a serious cook that's why I read books like McGee. My understanding is
that the qualities that he praises are mainly from freshness.

I don't know what it is with Garden Banter, either. I'm used to Brits
in other groups, and they aren't nearly as, . . uh, rustic as the
ones that we attract.


Rustic people are smarter than this lot. It's a puzzle.

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Billy wrote:
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there
is 450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods
make a sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig
feed and biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and
assists in other ways. So to be more accurate the above
production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I
think because the conventional system uses many external inputs
and would have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I
suspect that just measured in calories per acre the intensive
monoculture might win. The whole point of this is that you can
only do that for a limited amount of time with many inputs and
many unwanted side effects. Not to mention that man does not
live by bread (or high fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me, have
seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook
sheds for meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a
shed with a dirt floor with just enough room to move between the
feed and the water. Lights on half the night to get them to eat
more. The workers wear breathing apparatus to clean out the sheds
and it will make you puke at 400m on a hot night. The eagles dine
well on those who get trodden under. Nuff said.


Indeed. I've been to a feed lot and I had the same reaction
although this was probably one of the better run ones. I'd turn
vegetarian if our local buthcer sourced his meat at places like that
but I can see his 'feed lot' (for want of a better description as
it's jsut his farm) from the road and his cattle have quite a nice
spot for the final finish on feed before they take the trip to the
abattoir. (sp?)

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any cages
on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she used to
put birds that were off colour and needed to be taken away from the
bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the 50s and 60s when
other poultry farmers were moving to cages and proud of it, we were
free ranging. We once had a city person come back to us and
complain about the eggs they bought off us. According to them, the
eggs were 'off' and had to be thrown out because they had 'very
yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just pellet
chook food. A question that you would know, is the yellow yolk
still such an indicator or is it emulated these days by diet
additives?

That is one of those 'it depends' answers as in, it depends ont he
feed.

If you feed them on kitchen scraps (not recommended as that isn't
nutritious enough) then free ranging (as opposed to keeping
confined) will change the colour of the yolk. Pellets contain a
yellowing agent, but apparently that yellow isn't carried through so
that in baked goods show up the yellowing. Yolks that are yellow as
a result of the feed they find outside does hang on through the
baking process so that the baked goods (like say a butter cake) will
appear more yellow. I've not done these tests myself but there was
a long article on it (with comparative pics) in one of the
'Australasian Poultry' mags a couple of years ago. A great little
magazine and as cheap as chips.


My food books say the yellow of the yolk is due to xanthophylls which come
from plants, typically lucerne and corn. Not having chook books I do this
backwards. Apparently corn feed is also responsible for the yellow skin
and fat found in some "organic" meat birds.

Yep, corn does give yellow fat. dunno what gives the yoldk it's yellow
colour in pellets though. do you want me to dig out my A'Asian Poultry mag
with that article in it about yolk colour and give you a precis?

Besides having a yoke that looks like an apricot, instead of a lemon,
real eggs have a viscosity to them that factory produced eggs don't.

Is the height and viscosity of the egg contents a result of diet and
health of the chook or a sign of freshness, or both?

I'd say it's more freshness than anything. Duck eggs are even more so of
both.

The same ref (McGee 'On Food
and Cooking') says freshness has much to do with it.

Come on chook people - give me the scoop before I build the chook house.

Before you even start that, pay strict attention to rats and how to control
and exclude them. But really chooks are easy. Keep the foxes away and wild
birds out of the night yard/feed area. Keep the pullets confined when you
get them till they get used to their night house and yard and then let them
out to range (Ours range in an orchard which is prolly about a quarter of an
acre). I wouldn't fully free range if you want to have veg though or
toehrwise you wont' have veg. They will do a good job of spreading horse
plops.

FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Billy wrote:
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Salatin does not claim this level of productivity because there
is 450ac of woods as well as the 100ac of pasture. The woods
make a sizeable contribution to the farm, it produces much pig
feed and biomass that is used for a variety of purposes and
assists in other ways. So to be more accurate the above
production is from 550ac.

I would be interested to know what can be done by conventional
means. The comparison would be very difficult to make fair I
think because the conventional system uses many external inputs
and would have trouble matching that diversity of outputs. I
suspect that just measured in calories per acre the intensive
monoculture might win. The whole point of this is that you can
only do that for a limited amount of time with many inputs and
many unwanted side effects. Not to mention that man does not
live by bread (or high fructose corn syrup) alone.

Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the
quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me,
have seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.


That was one of the side effects I had in mind. We have chook
sheds for meat birds in the district. Ten thousand or twenty in a
shed with a dirt floor with just enough room to move between the
feed and the water. Lights on half the night to get them to eat
more. The workers wear breathing apparatus to clean out the sheds
and it will make you puke at 400m on a hot night. The eagles dine
well on those who get trodden under. Nuff said.


Indeed. I've been to a feed lot and I had the same reaction
although this was probably one of the better run ones. I'd turn
vegetarian if our local buthcer sourced his meat at places like
that but I can see his 'feed lot' (for want of a better
description as it's jsut his farm) from the road and his cattle
have quite a nice spot for the final finish on feed before they
take the trip to the abattoir. (sp?)

I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any
cages on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she
used to put birds that were off colour and needed to be taken
away from the bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the
50s and 60s when other poultry farmers were moving to cages and
proud of it, we were free ranging. We once had a city person
come back to us and complain about the eggs they bought off us.
According to them, the eggs were 'off' and had to be thrown out
because they had 'very yellow yolks'.

In those days it meant the chooks had a varied diet not just
pellet chook food. A question that you would know, is the yellow
yolk still such an indicator or is it emulated these days by diet
additives?

That is one of those 'it depends' answers as in, it depends ont he
feed.

If you feed them on kitchen scraps (not recommended as that isn't
nutritious enough) then free ranging (as opposed to keeping
confined) will change the colour of the yolk. Pellets contain a
yellowing agent, but apparently that yellow isn't carried through
so that in baked goods show up the yellowing. Yolks that are
yellow as a result of the feed they find outside does hang on
through the baking process so that the baked goods (like say a
butter cake) will appear more yellow. I've not done these tests
myself but there was a long article on it (with comparative pics)
in one of the 'Australasian Poultry' mags a couple of years ago. A
great little magazine and as cheap as chips.


My food books say the yellow of the yolk is due to xanthophylls
which come from plants, typically lucerne and corn. Not having
chook books I do this backwards. Apparently corn feed is also
responsible for the yellow skin and fat found in some "organic" meat
birds.

Yep, corn does give yellow fat. dunno what gives the yoldk it's
yellow colour in pellets though. do you want me to dig out my
A'Asian Poultry mag with that article in it about yolk colour and
give you a precis?

I am interested but don't go to too much trouble.


Besides having a yoke that looks like an apricot, instead of a
lemon, real eggs have a viscosity to them that factory produced
eggs don't.

Is the height and viscosity of the egg contents a result of diet and
health of the chook or a sign of freshness, or both?

I'd say it's more freshness than anything. Duck eggs are even more
so of both.

The same ref (McGee 'On Food
and Cooking') says freshness has much to do with it.

Come on chook people - give me the scoop before I build the chook
house.

Before you even start that, pay strict attention to rats and how to
control and exclude them. But really chooks are easy.

I already have a master plan for the erradication of the rodents since they
ate the weather seal off my shed door to get in and they attack the produce
on the verandah. It doesn't work of course but I do fight them to a draw.
People comment on how generous I am with feed for them. Them pellets ain't
chook food.

Keep the foxes
away and wild birds out of the night yard/feed area. Keep the
pullets confined when you get them till they get used to their night
house and yard and then let them out to range (Ours range in an
orchard which is prolly about a quarter of an acre). I wouldn't
fully free range if you want to have veg though or toehrwise you
wont' have veg. They will do a good job of spreading horse plops.

Foxes are a real problem, such destructive buggers, the chook house will be
metal with buried barriers, the yard will have a loop off the electric fence
around it as well.

How do you stop them scratching all the mulch off your fruit trees?

David